Trainer competing against student

[Bellathemustang]

I am an adult re-rider and own a cute little pony height mustang. I have not hit the show circuit, and this thread is making me scared to! I don’t want judgy parents throwing daggers at me the whole day because I dared ride in a pony class against their little princess.

But, I also have to think some of those kids are on $20k ponies that a sack of potatoes could win a ribbon on. So really if you are looking for something to complain about, you can find it. Better to teach kids to compete against themselves, and work towards a non ribbon goal, like execute the course without your horse (insert problem behaviour here).

If you are in it for the ribbons, I have great news! They are like $1.50 each, just order 100 custom made ones, it will likely cost less than the cost of attending the show.

[findeight]

I don’t know that asking about paying a trainer to train your young kid and Pony then having same trainer ride another Pony to win (not correct bad behavior) against young kid student is being " judgey pants " or applies to your circumstances at all.

Most shows that offer classes restricted to Ponies also limit the riders to under 18. And Hunters are judged on the Pony or horse, not the rider.

[Sueby]

@Bellathemustang

If you are in it for the ribbons, I have great news! They are like $1.50 each, just order 100 custom made ones, it will likely cost less than the cost of attending the show.

Love this!!

[JenEM]

I don’t think even at local shows I’ve seen actual Pony classes open to adults, regardless of whether or not they’re ammys or pros. Open and even some Ammy classes, yes, I’ve seen “adults may ride ponies” but not strictly Pony classes, unless you’re doing pony breed specific shows. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a Pro taking a Pony in an Open class to school it, even placing if they put in a good round, that’s why there are Open divisions. A Pro in a Pony division? I’d probably be looking for a rule book to see if that’s even allowable, unless they’re taking it around HC for a school.

[beowulf]

Man, y’all ought to come to an event some time… I’m in Area 1, and one end-of-summer show at Stoneleigh many years ago, I competed against my actual trainer, Denny Emerson, Lynn Coat-Holmes and Stephi Baer.

I was either seventeen or eighteen at the time, and it was my first Novice… as well as my horse’s.

I did not win :lol: but I remember we pinned.

I would see no god-given reason to pitch a fit over a trainer competing against your kid so long as it was not in an ‘amateurs’ only class. Kid’s gotta learn sometime that there’s always someone worse and someone better than them, and there’s no better way to do it. And honestly, the sense of accomplishment you get competing alongside someone as talented as your trainer… it’s a good feeling.

[rockonxox]

@JenEM

I don’t think even at local shows I’ve seen actual Pony classes open to adults, regardless of whether or not they’re ammys or pros. Open and even some Ammy classes, yes, I’ve seen “adults may ride ponies” but not strictly Pony classes, unless you’re doing pony breed specific shows. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a Pro taking a Pony in an Open class to school it, even placing if they put in a good round, that’s why there are Open divisions. A Pro in a Pony division? I’d probably be looking for a rule book to see if that’s even allowable, unless they’re taking it around HC for a school.

We have a few shows where pony jumpers and hunters are offered and that are open to anyone, as long as the equine is 14.2h and under. At most of the local/schooling shows I go to there isn’t even a pony specific hunter division offered. Rated shows are different than local/schooling shows. There are plenty of options that are open only to riders who have never shown above ___ height or based on age that the majority of kids will not have to show against a pro.

[Soaponarope]

I never heard of a pony division that allowed pro riders? But at any rate, I think better communication as to what to expect at a show would be a good thing all around. As far as the trainer bringing a horse to show in an open division for whatever reason, that’s normal and it’s fine, even if it’s just to get a year-end ribbon. That’s the trainer doing his or her job. No problem. But the first time this happened to us, it was disconcerting and a bit of a shock. There was no communication as to what to expect and I was paying a lot of money to travel to the show. I thought I was being taken advantage of (and I was on many other things but just not on this issue!).

However, you should also be aware that there are (I’m assuming even at a small show such as the one you describe) divisions your daughter should be entered in where she is just competing against her peers. These would include amateur hunter divisions for example based on academy classes or children’s or junior hunters that are just for kids under 18 and age group or any equitation division which by nature exclude trainers.

So it’s normal to compete against your trainer in open divisions which include warm up divisions and advanced events like hunter derbies or the performance hunters. But your kid should also be entered in divisions of her peers. Even the smallest shows usually have the latter.

I wish trainers would communicate all this to families so they would know what to expect on show day and therefore avoid hurt feelings, confusion etc. Showing is stressful enough and unfortunately you often have to learn through experience. Or ask the COTH forum!

[PonyPenny]

@Bellathemustang

I am an adult re-rider and own a cute little pony height mustang. I have not hit the show circuit, and this thread is making me scared to! I don’t want judgy parents throwing daggers at me the whole day because I dared ride in a pony class against their little princess.

But, I also have to think some of those kids are on $20k ponies that a sack of potatoes could win a ribbon on. So really if you are looking for something to complain about, you can find it. Better to teach kids to compete against themselves, and work towards a non ribbon goal, like execute the course without your horse (insert problem behaviour here).

If you are in it for the ribbons, I have great news! They are like $1.50 each, just order 100 custom made ones, it will likely cost less than the cost of attending the show.

No one will care what you do.

[gottagrey]

@beowulf

Man, y’all ought to come to an event some time… I’m in Area 1, and one end-of-summer show at Stoneleigh many years ago, I competed against my actual trainer, Denny Emerson, Lynn Coat-Holmes and Stephi Baer.

I was either seventeen or eighteen at the time, and it was my first Novice… as well as my horse’s.

I did not win :lol: but I remember we pinned.

I would see no god-given reason to pitch a fit over a trainer competing against your kid so long as it was not in an ‘amateurs’ only class. Kid’s gotta learn sometime that there’s always someone worse and someone better than them, and there’s no better way to do it. And honestly, the sense of accomplishment you get competing alongside someone as talented as your trainer… it’s a good feeling.

Horse trials is a different ball game - and IME event organizers do try to keep the pros, ammies/newbies, jrs. in separate divisions if possible. Doesnt’ always work but they seem to try. Eventing criteria is also different for the various divisions i.e. Horse, Rider and Open, where often it’s the ammy in the rider or horse divisions while pros are in the Horse or Open divisions.

[beau159]

@Show-momma

as far as the competing goes, I don’t feel comfortable with an adult trainer riding in a pony hunter class against one of her much younger students.

Part of me thinks: Why can’t the trainer enter in an open horse show on their own horse? (that so happens to be a pony)

Open means open, right?

I don’t know; I guess I don’t see a problem with it.

At one of our local shows in town, we have a pro reining trainer who is almost always at the show. Granted, he always is riding a very young green horse for the experience for the horse doing a variety of events. But honestly, if he wanted to show up with one of his finished reiners and knock all our socks off in the reining class, I wouldn’t care. You are only as good as your competition. Honestly, since I’ve never taken my horse to a big reining show, I’d be tickled to know how he’d do against the “big dogs”.

Same way I am thrilled when a big name graces their presence at a local jackpot barrel race. Most of the time they bring younger horses along but I would LOVE to see how my horse performs against a top horse.

So I suppose I would view it as a good opportunity for the student to see how they do against their trainer. You can use it as a positive opportunity … or you can go whine about why you didn’t win… shrug

[mrs_beasley]

As a general rule, that is in poor taste. And I’m not just saying that as a trainer who was once beaten by her own student when divisions were combined to beat a thunderstorm. She was borrowing MY horse, and beat me on him…I suppose she was well taught.

But seriously, even at a schooling show, there are PLENTY of divisions to choose from, so unless divisions were combined last minute or something weird happened, I see no reason why any trainer with self respect would do this. I don’t even like putting my students against each other in the same classes, for pete’s sake!

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

We have a nearby facility that hosts a fall/winter English/Western schooling show series that is mostly W/T and W/T/C rail classes. A pro who ran his A show level hunter/jumper business out of the facility would ride client horses in these shows and often place well. Maybe his owners wanted him to do it and wanted the ribbons, but the general vibe was that he should be riding with his number upside down.

[supershorty628]

I showed against my trainer all the time in the last few years I was showing. Every class. But it was in the open classes.

I think I showed against my mom, a professional, a few times as a pony kid. She was on a green but fancy pony, I was on a less green and not quite as fancy one. I don’t remember what division or shows we did this at, but I know I was delighted when I beat her sometimes.

Trainer showing against student when trainer is riding a made pony? I feel like there must be more to that than trying to get points. Maybe pony was naughty or something. Or kid is super nervous and needed to see pony go around.

[2DogsFarm]

@Come Shine

One of the best feelings in the world is beating your trainer.

Not my trainer, but a class full of them.
In the unofficial-yet-acknowledged “Pro” class of 2nd Yr Green Hunters.
And took 2nd of 8 or 9, IIRC.

To his credit, when the other Pros asked my trainer(& friend) why I was riding the horse, he answered:
“Because it’s her horse”

[Soaponarope]

@mrs_beasley

A I don’t even like putting my students against each other in the same classes, for pete’s sake!

I don’t see how this can be avoided? Nor can I see why it’s not desirable? Most trainers want to have multiple kids in each division. It’s their business. Let the best kid win. Kids need to learn to compete against each other in a friendly way just as one may be competing with friends and colleagues in adult life. It’s not easy, but it’s an important life skill.

Once a kid gets to the point where they can compete against their trainer, let’s say in a derby, it’s a wonderful moment for that kid and it’s in very good taste.

However, the situation that the OP is discussing does not sound kosher and is a horse of a different color.

[FireMeetsFire]

Where I’m from, we don’t have separate classes for amateurs and professionals, so this happens a lot. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest I think the trainer is probably the one who has the most at stake really!

[vxf111]

In my area there aren’t really pony classes open to adults. There are low/green classes open to horses AND ponies where an adult or pro may compete a pony against the rest of the class. Where are there pony-specific hunter classes open to pro riders? I am curious to see the prize list. How many pros riding ponies could there be to write the specs that way?

[findeight]

I would think that’s locally dependent, nothing to do with anything rated nationally. Never know what others have in their area at the local shows. Some newer to showing don’t really know that rated by the local club doesn’t mean nationally rated.

[rockonxox]

@vxf111

Where are there pony-specific hunter classes open to pro riders? I am curious to see the prize list. How many pros riding ponies could there be to write the specs that way?

A ribbon, maybe a saddle pad or something if you win the division… it’s schooling/local associations you’d see this at. Rated shows do not have open/pro/pony all rolled into one. One division at an upcoming local show is 2’ pony hunters. One division is pony jumpers. The pony jumpers you can win back some money (winner gets 40% of $5 out of each entry so only $20 if there are ten entries). That is all for pony specific… and no break down by height that I see on the show bill. Usually there are not even pony specific classes at our local shows. It is a rare occasion for a pro to be riding in the pony classes.

OP has already said this is a small local circuit. Some circuits just mix everyone together and don’t even split out childrens, Junior, AA, Pro, etc. It’s a melting pot. You get a few different heights to pick from and everyone competes against everyone at the same height.

[vxf111]

I’m just curious to see what the prizelist says. I suspect there’s some class for the clients where they would not have to compete against pros