I’m a little confused as to why so many responses seem to assume that the trainer just looked at one video over dinner. The original post makes it clear that the OP continued to accept help from the trainer, including many things that are typically expected when the trainer is working on commission. That said, I agree that both parties were wrong not to bring up their expectations, and that a full 10% commission in this instance when the trainer was not involved in searching for horses seems high. So, it is good that everyone was able to come to an agreement on a lower amount to compensate the trainer for her professional input. Lesson learned for OP, never assume where money is involved!
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As a professional let me share with you the following scenario. I had a part time client (lives 6 hours away, meets up with me at shows etc) who reached out about getting advice buying a horse. I had several lengthy conversations about this with her. I looked at dozens of videos. I called many many people. I didn’t have anything to do with vetting things as she is a vet herself. I spent many many many hours on this project. She did send me a small financial thank you when she told me that she was going to pause the horse shopping. I thought that was kind given the fact that she no longer was shopping. A couple weeks later, she bought a very expensive import through someone else. This is absolutely her prerogative and I am very hopeful she loves it, however it really hurt from a time spent perspective.
When I charge a commission it is for my time, knowledge and effort and all of those things continue after the sale. If the horse for whatever reason doesn’t work out I do not charge a commission to sell that one and or find the new one. So it’s a “satisfaction guarantee” of sorts.
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This reminds me of a time when I was at a happy hour with some co-workers. We were chatting with the bartender and he brings out a box of short gourmet breadsticks and proceeds to pour them onto a plate to share. I was so taken aback when he tried to charge me for them.
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I count my vet as a friend. I was organizing for her to come and do a lameness check on Mellow, and found out that she was also going to go on a trail ride with the barn owner while she was there.
I waited with interest to see if I was going to get charged a visit fee, as well as the work she did. When the bill came, it showed ‘shared call out fee” seemed fair!
Somewhat similar, but not horse related…
When my husband and I were selling our first house, our real estate agent was a friend’s mother. She was very nice, but didn’t find any of the houses we went to look at - I did all of that on-line. We ended up selling our house to an older couple that weren’t using a real estate agent. Our real estate agent were the ones that opened the house so they could do the home inspection and same when they came to view the house. Nothing more.
When the house sold, we went to our lawyer and he said sign here to make out the 5% cheque to your real estate agent. We were blown away! She didn’t say anything to us about taking the other 2.5% from the “seller’s agent.” We ended up settling on a middle number, but I would never use her again. It may be industry standard, but I want someone who is going to be up front about something like that. Especially when they know their clients are not the most experienced.
I’d personally walk away from the relationship and find a new trainer/barn. I 100% agree a person should be paid for their time and experience but it should be discussed up front and before even looking at the video or advising on purchase a fee should be agreed upon.
When looking at the big picture the trainer needs to think about all the money they will bring in from you lessoning on that horse, showing that horse, boarding that horse at their business and make the decision if they want to keep you as a client or lose you over their high opinion of themselves taking a look 2 minute look at a video.
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She totally stiffed you and that is awful, but you did a lot more in your situation than in this situation. I think something is owed to OP’s trainer, but I wouldn’t say it’s a full commission (which IMO you were definitely owed)
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I also dislike commissions as they currently stand in the horse world. I think there must be a better way to compensate pros for the time and expertise involved in finding a horse. I would have NO issue paying my trainer for her help in finding a new horse, but the flat percentage has always seemed absurd to me. It seems like it would make more sense to essentially do billable hours. Like others mentioned, I’d charge my hourly rate plus a bit extra for the fact that you’re getting to take advantage of my experience and connections in the industry.
On the flip side, I personally think my current trainer offers too many services comped. Even though it’s great for my budget as a client, people should be compensated for their time, experience, and efforts.
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Read the original post again - it was not just looking at a video over dinner. The OP continued to accept help with the vetting, insurance, shipping, etc . . . – all things normally done by a trainer being paid by commission. As I said in my post above, what this trainer did still seems to fall below full commission level, but it was definitely more than just taking a 2 minute look at a video.
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My trainer frequently advises me about vetting, insurance and shipping of my current horse, and does not charge me a percentage of my horse’s value for these services. Again, I get that sales commissions are common in this industry, but I would put a lot of these services into the category of “things trainers routinely do.”
Inasmuch as there is a bundle of services I view as associated with the commission, I would count sourcing the horse, reviewing videos, trying horses, rendering judgements on suitability, and negotiating sales price and other particulars of the deal.
Helping arrange for the care of the horse feels like a more routine set of services that the trainer should offer for a standard set of fees. I really do think that viewing the video is the main commission-earning activity in this anecdote.
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Thanks! Like I said- Karma!
I look back at it, and as much as that cash would have been helpful, it says a whole lot more about her, than it does about me.
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That’s fine - I agree it was more than a video but at most it was 30 mins to 1 hour of their time.
It’s not like this trainer sourced the horse by spending hours calling connections, looking through facebook ads, hitting up sale barns, talking to breeders, driving to farms for trials. They looked at a video told them it’s a nice horse and probably would be a good match for you from the video, connected them with a shipping company, and advised what to do for a vetting. At most they deserve what they would charge for a lesson or two for their time and that’s a stretch.
I’m all for people getting paid for their expertise but it should be inline with the amount of effort that is put in and the quality of service they provide. Too many trainers are short sided and nickel and dime clients. Horse commissions are a scam in general to clients that are already in program at your barn. Charge more for your program, for board, for training, etc Stop nickel and diming people with hidden costs and be transparent with your clients. It’s not that hard
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Does your hourly rate not already cover your experience and connections? I would think it would.
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True, but when I think of that I’m thinking coaching fees at a show or lesson rates, and I think that something like sourcing a horse for purchase goes a bit above and beyond that. Just my opinion, though.
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I think you are under valuing your coaching and lesson fees then.
I’m interested why you say that? I’m thinking that I am tapping into the trainers skill and experience for all of these things, and if it’s the same trainer that I lesson with and show with, it’s very much in everyone’s interest to have the trainers input.
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To me, I think my trainer taking time to travel to try a horse with me, for instance, is time she might otherwise be able to spend teaching multiple clients in a lesson or coaching multiple clients at a show. So that’s why I’d be comfortable paying a bit more for that focused time helping me find a horse. I’m just thinking through this, though. It’s not something I’ve spent a long time pondering or something where I think I’ve got it all sorted out.
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If you are paying by the hour, and their hourly rate equals their lesson rate, then in the end they are making the same monies riding in the car with you versus teaching at home. Clearly that means you are paying for all of your trainer’s time, not just the half an hour while trying the horse.
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If you are paying by the hour,
there best be a log kept of time spent
Whatever, everything should be in writing, signed by both parties …might even include a witness signature.
The Commission Fees are getting to be serious money. The clarify the “agreement” everything should spelled out in an understandable way as to who does what and compensation for what. Rather than saying afterward Where is my $50,000?
I know OP has worked this out with their trainer, but why go through the negotiation Afterwards?
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Yes. My point there was that if they are just with me, I am the only one paying them, whereas if they are teaching a group lesson for that hour, they could be making their rate times multiple clients.
This is becoming a meandering side point, though. lol
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