In an ideal world, I would agree.
But then, in an ideal world the OP’s trainer would have encouraged the OP to read the PPE and be there for it, and not had the OP move forward with this purchase.
The way I read the original post , the OP thought she bought a sound horse who started having issues, but heck, horses do that and they tried to fix the horse and when it became clear the horse was not fixing the horse was retired. It is only then that the OP learned they bought a lame horse.
OP, if your original PPE report notes that the horse was off at the vetting, you may have something worth taking to a lawyer.
However, ONAL but just know that this could get messy should you pursue litigation. You have to decide if it’s worth it to deal with the sh*t storm. If you’re still in the area, I would think about that pretty hard.
I’m so sorry this happened, OP. Expensive, discouraging lessons in sketchy horse people.
Most lawyers give free initial consultations, and you may be able to get a better idea of what to do after a consultation. As someone suggested above, a demand letter from at attorney to the trainer and the vet, might result in a settlement of some sort.
We’ve all been there, and you may have to chock it up as your learning experience.
Good luck.
That’s all pretty subjective. Are you interpreting this vet report or is another vet? It’s quite easy years later to say things were foreshadowing, although even then you’ll have an hard time getting a reputable vet to say a previous prepurchase was definitively indicative of current issues. And lame when during the exam? After a flexion? In hand? On the lunge? During the riding?
If a horse is concerningly lame during an exam (ie not just footsore lunging on the hard surface, or 2/5 on a flexion, like actually lame during the riding portion or a very serious flexion reaction) the attending vet is going to call the person paying for the exam and ask if they want to continue, even if the agent is there. If the vet did not and this report is actually as serious as you are presenting you may have a case for an equine lawyer, but there are a ton of variables. Prepurchases and their interpretations are hugely subjective, particularly when viewed again the intended use of the horse.
If you’re interested, I would consult with an attorney who knows buying and selling in the hunter/jumper world. I recommend Krysia Nelson. I am an attorney (although not a litigator) and used her for other things. She was excellent and knows this world.
Local litigators may not understand the nuances of a horse sale and PPE.
But Attorney Nelson may be neither licensed in the OP’s state, nor may she understand the law in Op’s state. That’s why I posted the list of equine law practitioners above.
Of course. I’m all for giving OP options. I’ve run across some “equine” attorneys who didn’t know jack. I’ve served demand letters in similar situations and advised local counsel on the ins and outs of horse purchases. She may consider doing the same.
I have not read all the responses you have here, but here’s my take on your original post… Every horse you buy is a lesson for you… a lesson in horsemanship, and a lesson in life. This one is no exception. Take this expensive lesson, and learn from it.
To own horses is to become a horseman- to some extent, as you progress. What you learn depends on who you come into contact with, and which horses end up in your care. There are no guarantees of success and joy in horsemanship and horse ownership. Even pre-purchase exams guarantee NOTHING.
Well, that’s good. Wouldn’t want to breach any ethical rules. I just thought that your statement above was interesting, and I’m surprised that you didn’t refer them to Attorney Nelson.
I had pretty much the opposite happen with my 1st horse.
Bought through trainer, who had horse on consignment from a friend of hers.
Local vet did the PPE, I was present & listened to him tell me horse would never be a suitable Hunter for more than regional B shows.
Sidenote: vet later did prison time for sewing cocaine into Caslicks
Fine w/me - I had no ambitions past that then.
Also, I’d told her I wasn’t interested in “moving up” <her usual M.O., client buys horse, she gets commission, client upgrades the following year, she gets commission…
Next year local Pro offered 3X purchase price (through trainer, so subtract her 15% commission from what I get) we were cleaning up on regional circuit. EOY Reserve AA after 6 shows.
Following year, BNT gives a clinic at my barn, offers 10X my purchase price.
Again, through trainer, so cha-ching! on that commission
I consider the offer, then decide my chances of getting another like him are slim.
I had the horse 20yrs.
I completely agree w/@NancyM - owners need to educate themselves.
OP, sorry you had to learn this the Hard Way.
Kudos for taking care of your mare & Luck finding your next one
A couple of thoughts here, but don’t beat yourself up. Buying any horse is a risk and it sounds like the people you trusted didn’t have your best interests at heart.
If the horse was actually lame during the PPE, the vet should have called you (as the purchaser) to ask if you wanted to continue with the exam. I’ve done a couple of long-distance PPEs where I couldn’t attend and that’s come up. So that’s on the vet.
Foreshadowing of a problem is not actually a problem . … until it is. Before I bought my mare, someone did a complete PPE. The vet told the potential buyer that she might be a candidate for ringbone because of her size and weight. Buyer passed and the mare never had an issue with it.
When you talk about your “next move” are you asking if there’s a way to recoup something from the trainer? I agree that the trainer had a fiduciary responsibility as your agent, but I suspect that it would be very hard to prove that she/he deceived you. Many years ago a web designer and I were in a dispute over a $24K bill where he clearly broke our contract. My attorney told me I was technically right but to the layperson or judge, it might not be as clear cut, so if I went to trial, I could end up owing both the $24K and the lawyers fees. If you tried to pursue this for financial compensation, you might be in the same boat. Plus, even if you won a judgment, there’s no guarantee you could collect. Look at the high profile case of Eric Lamaze, who has been ordered to pay past owners 1.4 million after having cheated them. Problem is, he has no money left. If you just want the judgment, and the purchase price for the horse falls within your state’s Small Claims Court limits, you don’t need a lawyer but each state has it’s own rules.
I’m glad you are out of the barn and you have done right by the horse. I’m sorry that you had such a downer as your first horse-owning experience. I would be upset, too. I hope you have a long, happy relationship with your next horse and that you find a trainer who has your best interests in mind.
I bought my first horse not-from-a-breeder two years ago. (I have others I’ve known since they were born) It was a long distance vetting. I had a written report from the vet. If you pay for the vetting you should get a written report, and if you were not there you should get a video. I had had a test ride on my gelding as well - suggest if you go forward with another horse that is what you should do.
Foxglove has some very good advice that may be satisfying for you to take without the expense of a lawyer.
I am glad for your mare that you are retiring her in a safe place and hope that you are able to have a new experience that is much better.
Lot of coulda, woulda, shouldas here as well as years in the past. Likely cost more to persue then could be recovered.
Going forward when using an agent to find, negotiate and purchase a suitable horse, get everything in writing including agents commission.
Write the purchase check or wire the funds directly to the seller. Pay the agent with a separate check.
Hire your own vet and pay them separate from the sales transaction ( sounds like OP did this). Have vet send the results directly to you. Get everything, including vets evaluation of “Suitable for intended purpose at this time”, in writing and save it. No horse is completely sound and vet doesn’t have a crystal ball so they use suitable for intended use or unsuitable. If they happen upon something that makes horse unsuitable? Good vet will stop and call prospective buyer to ask if they should continue. Good idea to discuss this with vet before the PPE to avoid further expense.
IME, many “trainers” boost the price over ask, give that asking price to seller then pocket the difference. Sometimes sellers are involved in over pricing and/or not revealing full PPE results to buyer.
Protect yourself by treating it like any other business contract. You can trust but VERIFY.
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. What a bitter introduction to rejoining the horse world!
Unfortunately, I’m not sure you have much chance of a satisfying recourse. Please keep in mind that I am totally on your side, but with the perspective of seeing a very similar case unfold a few years back (in Calif.), here are my thoughts, for what they’re worth:
So has a vet-- not the one who did the PPE-- documented that the “foreshadowed” issues on the original xrays are the precise cause of this career ending injury? Is this vet willing to go to bat for you?
Ah, the ol’ Nothing Remarkable notation. That’s so ambiguous. So something showed up, but it was deemed unremarkable… why? Was it an older horse with mileage, so some arthritic changes were not unexpected? Had the horse’s underlying issues (it came from the trainer’s friend) been managed well, therefore this trainer figured she could continue the regimen?
As the buyer, this is all information you should’ve been allowed to discuss openly with the vet. Your trainer overstepped her bounds by making decisions about the suitability of this horse. But now, several years later, it’s going to be tough to hold that trainer (or the vet) accountable in some manner. At least that was my friend’s experience.
Nonetheless, I’d still consider consulting with an equine attorney. It might give you some closure on the entire mess, or provide some personal satisfaction.
I hope you don’t let this bad experience ruin your desire to ride again.
This was my thought. PPEs are not pass/fail, they’re subjective and vary depending on the buyer’s goals for the horse. There are plenty of horses with questionable x-rays who go on to be successful, and plenty who pass a PPE with flying colors and then go lame. The trainer is going to claim that the issues were not significant in their professional opinion, and the vet will claim that OP had access to the information at the time and made the purchase anyway.
OP - unfortunately I don’t think you have any real next steps other than not making the same mistake with your next purchase. You could have spoken to the vet or reviewed the PPE report yourself at the time but chose not to. The trainer may have lied to you, or they may not have found the results concerning for what you wanted to do with the horse, or some combination of the above, but it’s going to be hard to prove anything now.
One thing I haven’t seen anyone mention is how pursuing a legal case against this trainer could hurt your own reputation in the industry. It’s a small world, and people talk. A lot of professionals are going to be wary about doing business with someone known to sue when things don’t work out their way, even if you’re 100% in the right. The potential gain is probably minimal, and the costs (money, time, energy, etc) are going to be considerable.
Wow, I’m just coming back on here this morning and just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to give me your thoughts
To clarify a few things
Yes I obtained the original vetting images and after the new vet at the retirement facility reviewed them, that’s what tipped me off that I had been misled. After that I obtained the written report from the vetting, which confirmed that and also stated the horse was 3/5 lame during the exam.
I have spoken to the vet who did the exam. He said he recommended against purchase when he spoke to my trainer. The things that were noted on the vetting are pretty much all the things we had issues with after purchase, and one of them progressed until it was career ending which brings us to present day. I’m purposing trying to stay a bit vague in case anyone I know or even my trainer is on these boards so I won’t get into specifics, but I can fill anyone in via PM
I love my horse but after looking at the vetting report (I do know much more now than I did back then) and speaking to the vet that did the exam and getting his opinions and interpretation, I can say with certainty I wouldn’t have gone through with the purchase
I agree…and it appears to me that a dishonest person took clear advantage of a new person who placed trust in that trainer. And the fact that the vet advised against the purchase? Pretty damning and shame on the trainer. I can’t fault the OP here. At all. I know several fancy barns who strive to keep owner involvement to the minimum. I’m opposite of that.