Trainer's Apprentience- UPDATE page 4

[TheJenners]

[QUOTE=vxf111;7613915]
Well if you were truly independent at the shows and didn’t go “with the barn” then I think you have a legitimate gripe over being asked to pay the splits, OP.[/QUOTE]

Ditto

I’ve found several shows my BM (who is a trainer, but not my trainer) didn’t know about. I am included in the group FB messages about going to the shows I found, but I have my own rig and haul myself. I am largely ignored at the show, but we park together and I chat with her students at the trailers. If I were charged, there would be a big problem. And my situation seems to mirror the OP’s more than any other described situation here, because these do not sound like the kinds of shows where the “barn” rents a chunk of stalls, has a day groom and night check, a group tack stall, etc.

One day show with no assistance from the trainer, absolutely the OP should not be charged diddly squat.

[debbieore]

[QUOTE=showidaho;7609671]
Careful OP…I believe AQHA requires 5 years showing pro or not showing without receiving payment again before they will reinstate your ammy status. I hope you aren’t showing as an ammy as that is a clear violation of the rules.[/QUOTE]

Cant you still be getting paid and ride as an amateur as long as its under a certain amount of money?

[Jo]

[QUOTE=debbieore;7625422]
Cant you still be getting paid and ride as an amateur as long as its under a certain amount of money?[/QUOTE]

Nope!

[Donkerbruin]

@HUS2318;7613369

I cannot go to any other trainer to recieve lessons, I can only go to her. I will not be paying her for lessons.

Well, that’s ridiculous. Regardless of what your working student situation is, you have the right to take lessons from whoever you want (off trainer’s property, of course).

[IPEsq]

I think she’s being shady… like that example of the trainer requiring clients to pay for trainer’s own horses’ expenses at shows. I don’t think you are her client if your lease is with a different person (trainer does not own the leased horse), and you haven’t signed up for training. You are almost a boarding client, although from the sound of your lease, it seems that the horse’s owner is still the one holding the board contract. Apart from the issue that she won’t allow you to train with anyone else, if you aren’t actually training with her, you aren’t her client. Sounds like you need to find a tactful way to get out of there and find a different lease once the current one is up.

[findeight]

I dunno, there might be something else going on here that OP can only work with/for this trainer and not go elsewhere???

Is it that OP does not have her own horse? Just the lease one under that trainers care??? Is trainer a family friend or relative?

Something does not really make sense. As a Pro, even part time, OP should have options elsewhere. You can’t change situations unless you are willing to change, asking how to change things then making excuses about why it can’t change is pointless. That trainer can charge whatever they want and those who don’t want to pay it need to move on. I wouldn’t pay it IF the situation is as described but Id be out the door if it showed up on a bill, even if I did not have a horse and depended on trainer for a ride. There’s always other options.

[Classic]

Like all things, make sure you enter into any agreement IN WRITING which is good in all things because it makes both parties clearly think through the arrangement. Like horse leases, it’s merely an arrangement between two people and can be formulate many ways.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Though I wouldn’t do it, if it is a lease horse, in the trainers program, the trainer - sounds like the person the owner has a boarding contract with, can dictate if the horse leaves the property and goes under another trainer. Plus, the horse is winning under saddle so the owners are not likely to want to switch. I do think it is reasonable for the OP to want to train with various trainers. Perhaps a clinic would be viewed as favorable. In addition, winning or losing under saddle is not necessarily indicative of riding skills. As an owner, I wouldn’t want my horse going to a random to me trainer if it is winning under the current trainer’s program. Owner is not responsible if the leasor wants to ride with someone else.

On the other hand, if this was a real assistant trainer, whatever it is, and “I” was the trainer- no, I wouldn’t want you going off riding with others. Theoretically, if I got to train under Scott Stewart - just throwing a name out- I don’t think he’d be keen on me taking lessons from Kelly Farmer. Different league than this situation but I can see it. But I’m not a trainer. Just a different perspective.

[HUS2318]

Just to give a little update…
I decided that I am going to end my lease. I can always find another horse, plus I have noticed significant changes in this horse since she has come to the barn, which I am not fond of. With ending my lease I will no longer be showing any horse on my dime, only attending shows to help clients and to observe (Who can resist horse shows anyway?!?!) I figured without the complication of her thinking I am a client, I can keep things simple; plus I wanted to save up for a new home anyway.

In the mean time, I am going to be looking for another trainer to work with. I live in a very small town and the closest barns with anyone that trains for something other than 4H is the current barn I am at or an hour drive. With my new search, I think I will look to getting back into jumping.

[HUS2318]

So here is my last update on this entire topic…

Today the trainer found out that my lease has ended. I received a text from the trainer asking what my plans were to show under her. I told her I would be more than happy to show for anyone as long as my show day fees were paid for, which I find very reasonable. I would be showing someone horse for no cost but for the cost to enter the horse in the show. This has been done a couple times previously with great success.
By the end of the messages, from what I understand, I am no longer going to be apprenticing for her because I will not be able to come to the shows for free or to pay her. I also am not willing to change my family schedule to accompany her even if it has never changed from day 1 of hire. I need my family time especially since I have a 4 year old at home.
Sadly, I won’t be paid for the balance that she owes me on my rides, but I am ok living with the fact I know why now that she never typed up an agreement. Maybe she will change her mind by the time I pick up my stuff at the barn. Who knows. I was raised to be a forgiving person and to try to look at everything from their view. I don’t know everything in her life, so who am I to judge? She opened her barn and training views to teach me and didn’t have to. So I do thank her for everything she did for me. I probably won’t do any training in the future unless its under a contract but this was a great learning experience.
I am glad to know now that I can freely find my own trainer without any restrictions and I can find another great horse to lease. If anyone knows someone in Ohio who is teaching hunters/jumpers I would LOVE to get back into jumping again!
Thanks everyone for the great advice!

[Zuri]

Sounds disappointing. I am so sorry she won’t honor her agreement and pay you what she owes you. Did she state that specifically in her texts?

[callmegold]

Where in ohio are you located?

[HUS2318]

She said specifically in her texts that she’s not going to pay because she said it was paid “when she could”… but she never said that to me. It was always “I pay $10/hr and no one else around here will pay that”.
She’s claiming it to be a miscommunication… maybe it was, but I’m pretty sure I know what I was told. I’m not too worried about it.

I’m about an hour west of Columbus.

[Coanteen]

@HUS2318;7687461

She’s claiming it to be a miscommunication… maybe it was, but I’m pretty sure I know what I was told. I’m not too worried about it.

Kudos on being able to take it as a learning experience and move on without bitterness.

I don’t believe there was any miscommunication. I think she wanted a free feeder/cleaner who’d pay her show fees, and who she occasionally might pay for the odd hour to keep up the pretense that they’re an employee.

[Soaponarope]

I would strongly encourage you to get a part-time job away from the horse world. That will give you a lot more self-reliance and freedom from barn politics, trainer’s needs and whims, etc. Earn the cash that lets you be treated as a client rather than dependent on her favors. It sounds as if you are not boarding for free so there is some financial support in addition to what you earn as an “apprentice”? Is the lease horse hers? If so, she may expect it to be a money maker for her. In other words you lease her horse and train with her and she collects on both.

I’ve never heard the word “apprentice” in the HJ world. I have heard the term “working student.” A working student would be expected to do whatever work needs to be done including cleaning stalls. You would be expected to work more than four hours a day. There are very few working student jobs that just involve riding.

Best thing to do is to talk it out with the trainer and decide what your expenses and work situation should be. You might also want to ask if the charges are a mistake. Does she do her own billing? Stranger things have happened! Good luck and hope it works out.

[HUS2318]

[QUOTE=Coanteen;7687482]
Kudos on being able to take it as a learning experience and move on without bitterness.

I don’t believe there was any miscommunication. I think she wanted a free feeder/cleaner who’d pay her show fees, and who she occasionally might pay for the odd hour to keep up the pretense that they’re an employee.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! I’m pretty sure that was the situation too.

[HUS2318]

[QUOTE=carroal;7687486]
I would strongly encourage you to get a part-time job away from the horse world. That will give you a lot more self-reliance and freedom from barn politics, trainer’s needs and whims, etc. Earn the cash that lets you be treated as a client rather than dependent on her favors. It sounds as if you are not boarding for free so there is some financial support in addition to what you earn as an “apprentice”? Is the lease horse hers? If so, she may expect it to be a money maker for her. In other words you lease her horse and train with her and she collects on both.

I’ve never heard the word “apprentice” in the HJ world. I have heard the term “working student.” A working student would be expected to do whatever work needs to be done including cleaning stalls. You would be expected to work more than four hours a day. There are very few working student jobs that just involve riding.

Best thing to do is to talk it out with the trainer and decide what your expenses and work situation should be. You might also want to ask if the charges are a mistake. Does she do her own billing? Stranger things have happened! Good luck and hope it works out.[/QUOTE]

It sounds like you didn’t read other comments earlier…
I don’t need the money and won’t be getting another job. She offered to pay me for my time. I’m fortunate enough to have awesome family support to not need the extra money. I was leasing a horse that the board and all expenses were paid for by the owner, I just directly paid the owner the fee. Please keep in mind the apprentice started before I began leasing the mare.
The hours and jobs were determined prior to agreeing for me to start. That included help at shows and training horses. Nothing else…She knew my prior engagements prior to start date and that I have to be home for my son every other weekend. Even if there was a show I would not be going with a 4 year old and no one else to help watch him. I only agreed to ride during the day between classes and before I had to pick my son up from pre-school. I would not ride when I have him with me.
We had a talk and I figured out that she sees me as a client not an employee, therefore I ended my lease to less complicate things. She does her own billing, and usually it was a text “hey you owe $35 for last night…”

[vxf111]

You have a really good attitude OP, that’s a rarity! Don’t let people use you as a doormat because of it though!!!

[crosscreeksh]

[QUOTE=vxf111;7687581]
You have a really good attitude OP, that’s a rarity! Don’t let people use you as a doormat because of it though!!![/QUOTE]

When I read the OP I thought you were being “used”!! Glad you have the character to get out of a messy “one-way relationship” with a less than honorable trainer!! You escaped with your dignity!! I’m sure you can find a better arrangement for your talents! Good Luck!!

[Zuri]

HUS2318, I applaud you for standing up for yourself. You cut the drama short and did not allow yourself to be used. I love that you put your son first above all else. It doesn’t matter to most of us what the title of your position was: apprentice, assistant trainer, working student. You had a designated position that was being being morphed into what suited the trainer, not necessarily you. Life is too short. Wishing you well and hope you can find another lease or position that suits you. Good luck!