Trainer's Horse Show Fees?

[Bascule7]

I’m returning to the show ring following a long absence. In my prior years, I never really paid attention to how my trainers billed for services; I was younger and more focused on chasing points, etc. I’m a bit more money conscious now in that I like to know where and for what my money is being spent. I’ve been in the business world for a number of years now and have interacted on a daily basis with uber-organized people who are very specific on how and for what clients are billed. If we submitted a bill to a client like the one I most-recently received, we would probably never get hired again.

I’m wondering how your trainers bill you for show services. Do you receive a fancy printed bill detailing the charges and how the final numbers were derived or do you receive a simple, hand-written receipt stating the dollar amount you owe? How does your trainer bill for travel/hotel? Does he/she charge by the number of clients or the number of horses in the group?

How should a travel charge be calculated if a client hauls their own horse, but trainer hauled massive trailer with other clients’ horses? Obviously, trainer has to travel to the show to be there for client horse not on the group trailer, so how should that be calculated? Cents per mile unloaded?

Trainers work hard and I don’t begrudge them their fees, but I feel like I need to know exactly how a split was arrived at (i.e. show me the calculation; don’t just give me the final number). I’m wondering if I’m just in my thoughts or if I’m asking for too much?

[OveroHunter]

I get an itemized receipt. If I haul myself to the show I only ever have to pay day fees unless the trainer has to get a hotel and then I pay for part of her expenses.

[Zuri]

I get an invoice. I know upfront approximately what the charges will be from her price list. The charges are detailed. The cost for hotel is divided between number of riders going. The hauling fee is divided amongst horses going. I have hauled myself and I am not charged a hauling fee. I pay a day fee for the groom, a day fee for the trainer, stall fee, bedding is divided up amongst number of horses.

[trubandloki]

There have been several threads on this topic.

My trainer never was into sending bills. Last day of the show a few people sat down and figured out what everyone owed and everyone paid.

How a trainer breaks it down depends on the trainer, there really is no wrong way.

This is how it worked for me/my trainer.

Trucking - if the trainer trucked your horse you paid for trucking to the trainer. If someone else trucked your horse you paid the trucking fee to that person.

Trainer expenses (hotel, my trainer did not charge for meals) - divided by the number of riders.

Tack stall - divided by the number of horses.

There were day grooming fees if you used that (I did not), there were day training fees that applied on show days and not show days that you had a lesson or training ride.

[bear_necessities]

While it would be great to always receive a detailed bill, I would say a majority of trainers don’t do this. My barn has a meeting before the bigger away shows so that everyone fills out entries/leaves checks at the same time. Every client pays a day fee, as well as their part of hotel (split by # of people) directly to trainer. We definitely are NOT a “hidden fees” type of barn. If I hauled my horse myself, I would absolutely NOT pay trainer a “travel” fee, that is for the clients she is hauling to deal with…just my two cents FWIW. Your day fee to trainer should encompass their time and training (and in our case, horse care as well).

I wouldn’t hesitate to ask for a breakdown of your bill though. Any other bill you receive is broken down for you, I wouldn’t just hand over a lump sum without knowing what I was being charged for specifically.

[BostonHJ]

Different barns work in different ways. I have never heard of a client being billed for the cost of anyone else’s horse being shipped.

There are some full service barns that charge a flat weekly rate for everything - grooming, training, riding, etc. On top of that, you will have their hotel split (generally done by horse numbers, not humans) and trailering.

Many more barns have an itemized list of what costs what. Some services are optional, for example, full grooming, while others are mandatory, like a base day care fee for feeding and doing stalls. There are some barns that charge a show or training fee per day even if you aren’t showing every day.

Finally there are lower key barns that will invoice you exactly for services provided. This I love There are trainers that have a minimum total daily price, so if only two clients are going, it may cost you more to meet that daily minimum. This is the only time I can think of a “travel fee,” per se.

No matter what the situation is, you should have a pricelist and have a pretty good idea beforehand of what it will cost you. I would ask them for an itemized list.

[Bascule7]

Thanks guys.

I looked for other threads, but nothing addressed the questions I specifically had.

I took care of my own horse, so no day fee.

I hauled hay for the group in my trailer (loaded and unloaded 2x).

Being charged for travel fee even though hauled own horse.

Being charged for hotel, but another client stayed in same room, so I don’t know if I’m paying my % of the half or my % of the whole.

I have no problem asking for an itemized bill, but would like to know what general protocol is for other people.

We don’t have a “fee sheet” and the website hasn’t been updated in years.

[SnicklefritzG]

Some barns have very sloppy billing. Either because their are lazy, not good business people, or are hoping to make extra $$ from folks who don’t watch their statements.

Rich people didn’t get rich from letting people pull their money out of their wallets.

I would ask for a rate sheet and to speak with them about any charges you feel are unnecessary.

Edited to add: I once brought up questions about charges and the barn owner got upset. I later left as did many others over sloppy billing practices.

Interestingly, a year later, there has been a TON of turnover at the barn and they are having trouble getting new people in. wonder why. lol.

[MIKES_MCS]

Being charged for travel fee even though hauled own horse.
That would be a BIG NO and you also hauled Hay for them

Being charged for hotel, but another client stayed in same room, so I don’t know if I’m paying my % of the half or my % of the whole.
Unless that other client was a working student , then the clients would split half the hotel room expense.

[hntrjmprpro45]

I charge a flat fee per day which includes training, local hauling and day care. Any pro rides are additional, hotel/RV and tack stall fees are split and out of town hauling is an additional per mile charge. I always itemize my bills and typically email/text them to clients. If requested, I provide a paper copy as well.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=Bascule7;7693632]

I took care of my own horse, so no day fee.[/QUOTE]
Some barns you pay a day fee no matter what. It is most certainly not unheard of. The theory is that the trainer (and grooms if your barn happens to have them) have to be there so they are missing out on what they would make at home so there is a minimum charged no matter what.

[QUOTE=Bascule7;7693632]
I hauled hay for the group in my trailer (loaded and unloaded 2x).[/QUOTE]
Are you thinking you deserve a credit for this some how?

Why did you load and unload 2x? Did no one use any of it?

I always shoved as much hay as I could fit into my rig so we (the barn) did not have to buy hay at the show. I never expected to get a trucking fee for it.

@Bascule7;7693632

Being charged for travel fee even though hauled own horse.

Travel fee or trucking fee?
Travel fee is the trainer, trucking fee is the horse (to me).
Some barns do charge a travel fee for the trainer.

[QUOTE=Bascule7;7693632]
Being charged for hotel, but another client stayed in same room, so I don’t know if I’m paying my % of the half or my % of the whole.[/QUOTE]
Why not ask someone? How much was the hotel per night? Or call the hotel and get an idea what it was per night. Then you can have an answer and not be mad.

@Bascule7;7693632

I have no problem asking for an itemized bill, but would like to know what general protocol is for other people.

There is no set protocol that is why you are not going to get the answer you want. No one is going to tell you this how it is. Each barn has their own way of doing it.
These are all really questions you should have asked before going to the show. You knew there would be expenses, why not ask what you will be charged for before you go?

[comingback]

All fees due to the show (tack stall splits, hay, shavings, etc) are reviewed by the trainer in the show office and the clients pay directly to the show.

Day care, training fees and shipping (miles*rate) are all shown as line items on the monthly invoice. These fees are all displayed on the rate sheet given to all clients when they join the barn.

I also wonder about the client staying in the room with the trainer. If they are working for the trainer (grooming, working student, etc), even if they are showing, I don’t have an issue with covering the total room cost split among the other people showing. If it is a normal showing (and presumably paying) client, then I would want to only be covering half of the room cost (again, split among the other showing clients).

[50ShadesOfHay]

I would absolutely ask for an itemized bill. I’ve been at a few barns and all of them provided me with itemized bills each month. Some were typed up and mailed, others hand written and put in my trunk. If, I ever had questions about something I just asked and phrased it that politely that I just had a question about ____. Almost everyone is on some sort of budget and its just good to know aprox. what to expect each month so you can know what to plan for. Also even if my bill was totaled up, I always add it as well myself, people accidently fat finger things all the time.

But typically a monthly bill will have:
Boarding Cost
Supply Fee (sometimes)
Shipping Fee(s)
Day Care at Shows
Split of Grooms Hotel Fees
Split of Grooms Meals
Split of Shared Grooming Stall (if you had one)
Shavings at the show
Trainer Daily Show Fee
Split of Trainers Hotel Fees
Split of Trainers Meals
Training fees (if your horse is ridden by trainer/pro.) Mine breaks it down by dates of her rides
Lessons Fees

I think that about covers it. Also, I have never seen any sort of shipping fee added when you shipped your own horse…

[fmftrainer]

As the trainer of a farm that travels to lots of shows, we have different charges and expenses for nearly every horse/rider combo.

For local shows, 1-2 days, there aren’t any trainer expenses because I stay at home. I also do not charge my or our grooms meals at these shows, though we do have a great group that brings sandwiches, snacks, drinks etc. Stalls are paid with the entries, with the tack stall/s being split amongst the number of horses. Bedding is charged individually per stall, by the show office. Day care fees can vary, as we have full care, and just mucking/feeding. Schooling fees are all the same for these shows. Hauling is per horse per mile. Clients that bring their own horses or haul something intrinsic to the show (the golf cart) are not charged hauling.

At away shows, trainer and grooms expenses are split by the number of horses, I do include my own horses in this group, so if we have 8 horses and 3 are mine, I pay 3/8 of all splits. There are day care fees and full care is required at A/AA shows which does include lunging, unbraiding etc. . We aren’t a huge barn, so we tend to help each other ringside and with tacking/untacking. Again hauling is per horse per mile. Schooling fees are only charged on days the client rides with me or is showing. If the horse is just being hacked or lunged, it is included in day care. If the horse is being shown by myself, per class or per division rates apply. There is also a supply fee for hoof packing, poultice, ice etc. . . We charge just the minimum to pay for supplies.

Regardless of the type of show, I invoice every client after the show. These invoices are itemized and detailed. I can’t stand seeing invoices with “meds” or “misc barn fee.” If your horse received medication, the dosage is there as well as how it was administered. We do not use many meds, but I want everyone to know what was given and why. Same with supplies, if your horses feet were packed with magic cushion and his legs were poultices and wrapped, I want you to be aware. I work hard to keep my clients happy and the biggest complaint I hear from other farms is that they hate getting bills without any detail or explanation.

Sorry for the book, hope this helps!

[gottagrey]

ask for an itemized bill and then explain which fees you don’t agree with. Many trainers bill clients for anything and everything and will continue to do so as long as they aren’t questioned. I would pay share of trainer’s meals but not so sure I would share in any alcohol costs - that is unreasonable to me as is a ‘luxury’ cost. That’s not to say I would not buy a round of drinks or bottle of wine/champagne to celebrate but I don’t want it parsed out on a bill.

I would definitely offset 'travelling fee" w/ your hauling hay and frankly if this is a show barn that goes regularly to shows - travel is the nature of their business … or get their SSN so you can 1099 them at the end of the year.

[SnicklefritzG]

How are trainers handling training fees at shows for people who are in full training at home? If someone is paying to get X number of lessons per week and Y pro rides, what happens if they are at a show for the week?

Are the full training packages priced to account for occasional missed rides or lessons? Or are trainers expecting people to pay both fees? Or are the show fees adjusted to account for what you paid for at home?

[fmftrainer]

Horses in full training with me are not charged for training rides or for me to ride them in classes at a show. Typically our full training horses are showing in a green division with myself or if it’s a pony in the green ponies with one of my pony kids. Because these clients are already paying a premium for training, I do not charge extra. They do pay schooling fees on days they ride/show.

[BITSA]

Here’s what my last show bill looked like (when it came as an invoice):

Day Fees
Show Groom
Braider
Horse Split

The hauling if its an away show is paid separately – if you don’t have your horse hauled by the trainer (we have one gal who doesn’t), you don’t pay any part of hauling.

Our trainer tries to stay with friends (other trainers) or sometimes with a client. The hotel splits are based on what she would have to pay (so if she shared a $200/night room, her part to split amongst us would be $100).

[Gorgonzola]

When I was new to an area, I started riding at a barn where after a few weeks I wasn’t 100% happy. I went to one show with them, and when I went to check out I got a larger bill than expected… turns out, they do their splits by OWNER not by horse, so even though I had 1 horse I paid 1/6 of the tack/grooming stalls, even though there were 34 horses at the show, none owned by the trainer.

When I inquired, politely, about this, the trainer said “Well, your horse used it, so why are you bickering?” I said, I would be happy paying for 1/6 of the splits if I had 1/6th of the horses, not 1/34th (also there are a lot more grooming and tack stalls needed with 34 vs. 6 horses!)

Their math skills along with the ‘bickering’ comment lost them a client. And when my long time friend’s mother asked why I had left a few weeks later (they had recommended the place, but were absentee owners) I let them know that it wasn’t a care/training thing but a math/professionalism thing.
They pulled their 8 horses a week later :eek: when Mom actually went over the bills…

[TSWJB]

It is not fair to split by owner. It should be by horse. Because one owner my have 10 horses and another owner only one. That is completely unfair! !