Training a trail Horse to stand tied.

[cnigh]

Thanks again.

I am NOT a fan of John Lyons, but point taken. Of my past horses only one wouldn’t give to pressure - the first one. BUT that was 100% due to a horrible experience with a western trainer. My only fault was not letting her get over it - I guess. Like most first time owners I was more worried about her than about myself and never pushed the cross tie issue, when she would stand with me quietly. She wasn’t a nasty mare just personified the word “stubborn”. Gotta love Appies - lol!

The four others would “dance” in the cross-ties. None of them would flip out & break the ties. They all gave to pressure and if anything happened would wait for me to rescue them. Ie - yearling stood for God knows how long with one hoof high in his water bucket.

Its the dancing around that I would like to prevent in my next horse. And I think the inner tube method will work fine. Hopefully my next horse being older will already know all this though.

[rmh]

One of the first thing John teaches is giving pressure from the poll. A2’s example comes in when you are trying to cure a problem in a short time with a horse not schooled in early pressure techniques. If you start simple and then progress it takes longer but much better results. So is the inner tube technique. This isn’t a new method. Bill Dorrance taught this long ago. He has a book out "True Horsemanship Through Feel " is long but very good.

[Auventera_Two]

I would think that lots of turnout and not too much molasess coated sweet feed would help with the dancing around. Of course if your horse is already good in those 2 departments, then maybe just more work? I don’t know, I’ve never had a dancer because ours have usually always had plenty of turnout and didn’t get loaded up on grain.

If you can’t do more turnout, maybe you could turn the horse loose in a paddock or arena/round pen for 10-15 minutes to run around and get all the bucks out before asking her to stand sill in the ties.

[Beverley]

As for dancing on crossties- I had an OTTB that had that tendency, and when, one fine day, I tried putting the crossties on the top ring of the cheekpiece instead of the bottom- problem solved. From that day forward he stood like a plow horse on the cross ties. Since then I pretty routinely crosstie horses on that higher ring, and it works well for me.

In recent years, about the only time I get ‘dancing in the aisle’ is when they’ve got to pee.

[Griffyn]

like matroshkas- My mare LIKES to break the cross tie. Takes out the slack and POP! She doesnt really go anywhere. but I have been thinking of this timely thread. I need to get something done about this, and this is incentive.

[rmh]

I’ve found that you can use the “dancing horse’s” movement to help stop them from moving. If they want to move I just help them move a little more. After a while they appreciate not moving. I don’t use treat for any of this. The release from pressure is a reward plus I rub and reassure a lot.

[matryoshka]

Some horses need to be trained to stand, just as they need to be trained to tie. It isn’t quite the same thing, and it takes more patience to train them to stand. My OTTB (the one who liked to break his tie) used to dance around when tied. I worked on it, and he got better. Much better. He would still get anxious on occasion and move around, but it was no longer a habit. Few things bug me more than a horse who dances around when tied.

Somehow, after they learn to tie, I get them to stand quietly. It’s just something we work on, consistently. Thomas1 thinks it should be the other way around, where they learn to stand quietly before you teach them to tie. He drives his horses, so standing still is very important. And it can be taught.

[rmh]

Yes it can be taught. I haven’t thought about a sequence. I guess I just do it as I need. I know the head down is the first thing I concentrate on. Usually when I help a friend it is to deal with a specific behavior. The problem with that is they don’t want to keep working on the bad behavior. If you teach a dog to sit and don’t keep at it they will forget how to sit. Same with a horse but most people are lazy and just want to get on and ride. I think that is why you see so many horses with bad trail manners. I keep horses a long time, at least so far, so new ground training doesn’t happen offend. Continued re-enforcement is a daily activity.

[Movin_Artfully]

Rope halter, please.

Every time your halter/lead/clasp breaks- you are rewarding the behavior :no:

[BigHorseLittleHorse]

[QUOTE=matryoshka;4254509]
Some horses need to be trained to stand, just as they need to be trained to tie. It isn’t quite the same thing, and it takes more patience to train them to stand. [/QUOTE]

Agreed. Someone taught my rescue Arab to tie at some point in his life – which is GREAT – but never bothered to teach him to actually stand still while he was tied. He was under the impression that it was perfectly acceptable to dance around in circles while tied as long as he didn’t break the tie.

It took me a few months to teach him “stand,” but he’s got it now.

Having never had to teach “tie” as well as “stand” to a new horse, I too would be interested in others’ opinions about the best order to teach them in…

[Char]

I’m sort of surprised that no one else has brought this up yet, but the very first thing I make sure of, is that the meaning of WHOA is firmly installed into their little pea brains before I do much of anything.

Whoa. Definition:
Stop moving all four feet immediately, and do not move them again until told to do so. No matter what. Always.

I also make sure that they understand the consequences for not adhering to that rule. I will kill them, and eat them. Period. (Or so they are made to believe.)

Once this rule is established, usually having them stand is no longer a problem, in my experience. Understand, that consistency, as with everything, is the key. I don’t utter that word or anything that even sounds like it unless I want the desired effect. It’s not used to slow down, it’s not used to comfort. Only when I want them to stop moving all four feet, and I can make sure that it happens.

[bort84]

@Char;4257161

I’m sort of surprised that no one else has brought this up yet, but the very first thing I make sure of, is that the meaning of WHOA is firmly installed into their little pea brains before I do much of anything.

Whoa. Definition:
Stop moving all four feet immediately, and do not move them again until told to do so. No matter what. Always.

I also make sure that they understand the consequences for not adhering to that rule. I will kill them, and eat them. Period. (Or so they are made to believe.)

Once this rule is established, usually having them stand is no longer a problem, in my experience. Understand, that consistency, as with everything, is the key. I don’t utter that word or anything that even sounds like it unless I want the desired effect. It’s not used to slow down, it’s not used to comfort. Only when I want them to stop moving all four feet, and I can make sure that it happens.

Yes!!!

My grandma (long-time horse trainer) always puts a solid WHOA on her horses, and I do the same - I’m amazed at how many people don’t do this. She’s about 5’1" but she can holler like a 300 lbs baritone, haha. The beauty of a well taught WHOA (as in, I will kill you if you don’t stand still, but if you do, absolutely nothing in this world can hurt you) is that you can yell it at a horse in a time of extreme panic or stupidity and often pull them out of it. We had a horse get loose one day and head for the highway, her loud WHOA stopped him dead in his tracks until we got there. I’ve also seen panicky horses stop immediately and take a deep breath after a whoa.

It becomes their safe place eventually and is SO helpful. They realize that if they stand still, they are safe and nothing can happen (obviously that won’t hold true through every terrifying experience, but it helps a lot) It’s also extremely helpful in a situation like this where you have a horse that does NOT want to chill while tied. Obviously this horse will need more than just whoa training, but you might as well work on some of that at the same time = )

[txladybug]

Can you discuss how you instill the whoa command? I usually teach whoa from the lunge line. Are there other methods that are helpful to the whoa = stands tied training?

[Beverley]

@txladybug;4258868

Can you discuss how you instill the whoa command? I usually teach whoa from the lunge line. Are there other methods that are helpful to the whoa = stands tied training?

I start with whoa just leading them- they already know it when introduced to longeing. And continue to reinforce it almost daily, when leading say from turnout back to barn. I simply cease to move (which generally prompts a stop on its own before the nose gets past my elbow, on loose lead rope) and if need be that’s reinforced with the whoa and a bit of schooling if they aren’t paying attention.

But- ‘whoa’ means stop. ‘Stand’ means stand still. Again, this command is started w/halter and lead, pretty much like teaching a dog to stay. One could use the word ‘stay’ if preferred.

[StellaTMK]

Thanks for this timely topic.

I had a horse that would stand for HOURS tied to a trailer till he fell asleep. Then last summer he was napping, got stung by something bumped his nose on the trailer and snapped his halter. Now he has pulled back twice more. He will still stand for hours tied to a post or stall wall. But he’s got the trailer thing down.

I have to nip this in the bud… and get a new un breakable leather halter.

I am thinking though that I have to do the lesson tied to the trailer. Any suggesions on safety here? Maybe covering the wheels on the side? Of course I will be hooked up at the time.

I would never before have suggested training on the side of a trailer, but any other suggestions?

[matryoshka]

I use a Blocker Tie ring for trailer tying. I got it because my trailer is a Brenderup, and I didn’t want the horse to be able to move the trailer sideways. If your horse does pull back, the lead will slide through, and usually they stop pulling before they run out of line. I use at least a 10 foot lead, if not longer. I put a knot in the end just in case.

When getting the horse used to it, you need to be close enough to shorten the line after they pull. Clinton Anderson at some point tries to spook the horse a bit so they get used to it. Each time he gets them to fly backwards, they only travel about half the distance as the previous time, and next thing you know they are standing there no matter what he does.

Hopefully your horse will learn that he’s still tied to the trailer no matter what happens and get over the fear he has developed. The reason I’m suggesting the Blocker Tie ring in this situation is I don’t think a trailer is a safe place to let them fight it out. Too many things can go wrong, including the horse cutting himself. JMHO.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=StellaTMK;4264885]
Thanks for this timely topic.

I had a horse that would stand for HOURS tied to a trailer till he fell asleep. Then last summer he was napping, got stung by something bumped his nose on the trailer and snapped his halter. Now he has pulled back twice more. He will still stand for hours tied to a post or stall wall. But he’s got the trailer thing down.

I have to nip this in the bud… and get a new un breakable leather halter.

I am thinking though that I have to do the lesson tied to the trailer. Any suggesions on safety here? Maybe covering the wheels on the side? Of course I will be hooked up at the time.

I would never before have suggested training on the side of a trailer, but any other suggestions?[/QUOTE]

Use the donut whenever you tie the horse. He’s learned about the trailer and will about other opportunities to elope if he gets stung, spooked, etc. again. It only takes there experiences for horse to form a habit; you horse is now 1/3 of the way there.

G.