Training a trail Horse to stand tied.

[cnigh]

All of my previous horses had the same problem. They all danced around when tied. My first horse would flip out and breaks the string on the ties. Of course since they all did it - its something I am doing wrong.

Under saddle they were great, and all of them would stand calmly for me. Even when truly scary things were happening - like helicopters landing nearby or skidoo’s suddenly coming out of the woods ahead etc.

So my question is if your horse (prefer arabain) stands well tied, cross-tied, high-line, tied to trailer/stall/wall or stand perfectly when untied. What are your training methods?

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=cnigh;4243981]
All of my previous horses had the same problem. They all danced around when tied. My first horse would flip out and breaks the string on the ties. Of course since they all did it - its something I am doing wrong.

Under saddle they were great, and all of them would stand calmly for me. Even when truly scary things were happening - like helicopters landing nearby or skidoo’s suddenly coming out of the woods ahead etc.

So my question is if your horse (prefer arabain) stands well tied, cross-tied, high-line, tied to trailer/stall/wall or stand perfectly when untied. What are your training methods?[/QUOTE]

You must teach the horse to respect the rope. Tying with hay or other light weight strings will not do that job. All they do is teach the horse that if it struggles enough it can get free.

Start by getting a good quality nylon halter, a good quality lead rope, and preparing a space. To prepare the space put a tie ring (of a quality that won’t break) into something at won’t break. Ensure that the area is clear of obsticles (furniture, equipment, rocks, etc.).

Then get a bicycle innertube. Lay it flat (making a circle). Now fold it over so that you have a figure eight. Fold one circle onto the other, so that you have two rubber circles, one on top of the other. Now make a new figure eight and do it again. Keep doing it until you get a circle of multiple layers of rubber, about 10-12" in diameter. We’ll call this the “donut.”

Using 3/4" soft laid marine nylon line (available at your nearest marine supply store) tie one sideo of the “donut” to the tie ring. Note that you want to keep this tie short (not more than 6-8" maximum).

Now bring up Old Clomper and tie the lead rope to the other side of the donut. This tie must also be short. The entire rig (lead rope, donut, and marine line) should not exceed 24" (and a cubit (18") is even better).

Now step back and be patient. Sooner or later (sooner by your explanation) the horse will set back. DO NOT INTERVENE. If you’ve done this right the horse can’t break the rig. Even if it throws itself on the ground, LEAVE IT BE. If the horse is normal it will learn very quickly that struggling is useless and it will quit. It may take one or two more sessions to “set the lesson” but then the problem will be gone.

If you intervene and let the horse loose for any reason you will not have taught the horse to respect the lead rope, you will have taught that if it pulls hard enought and gets dramatic enough it will get free. And you will be in a worse situation than you are now.

You will likely be bombarded with third party accounts of dead and crippled horses. I think most of them will be pure bunk. A normal horse can get some “road burn” from this proceedure, but the risk of significant injury is remote. If a horse is crazy enough to struggle until it sustains serious injury then it’s likely that you have many more problems than this.

This system works and works well.

Good luck with the problem.

G.

[analise]

You know, I’ve heard people talk about the “tire” method before but I’d never seen it explained so well that I could actually visualize it. I’m not the OP, but thank you for such a good description!

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=analise;4244145]
You know, I’ve heard people talk about the “tire” method before but I’d never seen it explained so well that I could actually visualize it. I’m not the OP, but thank you for such a good description![/QUOTE]

Da nada!!!

G.

[ponygrl25]

Haven’t used the tire method myself. I have had great luck with tying to a solid ring at eye level in the stall. A solid wall is best IMO. Remove any buckets and use a sturdy halter ( I prefer rope for the poll pressure) and a solid rope tied to the halter, no snap, and tie him with 24’’-28’’ of wiggle room in the rope. They will dig, scream, pace, fuss, and generally throw themselves around. In my whole life I haven’t seen a horse that this didn’t work for and none that were injured beyond a scratch. I let them simmer that way until they realize this is not the end of the world. It may take some time and you may need to offer water at some point, but don’t leave any buckets in the stall. I stick close to the stall just in case and I am quick call it a day when they stand quietly. Keep it low key when you untie them with just a little praise so it is no big deal, just another part of the routine. I do this every day until there is no more fussing when tied. Even the toughest ones didn’t take more than a week. The most important thing is to not make a fuss over it, but don’t put up with any crap.

Don’t underestimate the power of a stern ‘‘stand’’ command either. Start using it whenever you stop your horse. Good luck!!

[jazzrider]

You know, a few years ago I probably would not have agreed with the tire method at all. Too dangerous, too risky, too too. But I have an OTTB that would stand nicely and quietly in hand, but could NEVER be tied. Broke every tie he was put on, single, double, trailer ties, whether he was supervised or not. It was really a problem and he was a real butt about it. We’re really lucky he and none of us ever got seriously hurt. I sent him to a semi-cowboy trainer after a long layup to put some miles on him for me about four years ago. I got out there one day and found him tied to a telephone pole (not the tire trick, she had some special set up though), and he had apparently been there for a few hours. I wasn’t too thrilled about it. But I’ll tell you what – four years later and I can still leave him on cross ties in the middle of the aisle and walk away. Not once has he broken a tie, or tried to even test it. Even in the wash bay, backing up from the water – he won’t back into pressure. I still have a barn full of quick release/safety ties, but I don’t need them! :yes:

[matryoshka]

I’ve used the Blocker Tie ring with success. They usually run out of spook before they run out of line.

Other than that, I have “the tree of shame” for horses who arrive without respect for being tied. The horse is secured above his head, and the halter and rope are not easily broken. This has worked well for the more hard-core cases who figure out that the Blocker tie is a great way to get more grazing area.

Just make sure you secure them above wither height.

[cnigh]

Thank you so much for your advise - I will for sure follow it with my next horse who will most likely be an Arabian. I have never been brave enough to do that before. But I am dying to do LTD’s & CTR’s. I have my eye on an 18 yr old been there done that type gelding to fave fun on.

[twofatponies]

I have seen this method done, and I think the hardest thing is for the horse owner to be brave enough to let the horse work it out. We like our horses to be sweet and pretty and happy, and it is quite difficult to watch them have a temper tantrum. The urge to intervene is extremely strong. One reason I think it best to have a professional/experienced person help you do this kind of thing. It takes experience to know for sure if when the horse needs to just keep working it out and when they may be getting in trouble.

On the other hand I’ve had a couple of old cowboys say, if the horse is so mentally-whack that it will actually fight the rope in a way that will cause serious injury, that’s not a horse you want to ride anyway - a good using horse needs to have a sense of self-preservation.

[brightskyfarm]

it takes 100 miles to make a good pony…it takes 100hrs to get one to tie well.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=twofatponies;4245560]
On the other hand I’ve had a couple of old cowboys say, if the horse is so mentally-whack that it will actually fight the rope in a way that will cause serious injury, that’s not a horse you want to ride anyway - a good using horse needs to have a sense of self-preservation.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for this comment. This is a thought that should sometimes be more carefully considered. There’s an old saying that the horse who kills you warns you first. The warnings come in many ways. Fighting a tie rope to the death (or at least injury) is likely one of those warnings.

G.

[RackOn]

Some years ago at a large barn where I boarded my horse, I noticed everyone using bungee ties. Could not understand it because I was always taught to tie so the horse could not break away if it pulled back. It seems like this concept of letting a horse get loose when it pulls back is a new one - but then I’m old haha.

If you follow G’s method and see good progress, it is also important to tie EVERY TIME with the assumption your horse will pull back.

Now someone will come on here and say “but my horse is so well trained he never pulls”. I’ve seen a horse sit back one time in 10 years, and that one time if the tie doesn’t hold you may have just created a puller and that is one of the hardest habits to break.

My arab is a wonderful horse, but he will test a tie now and again. I’ve never had a tie break and after a couple of years he seldom pulls and if he does it is just kind of a half hearted attempt. He also just pulls, meets resistance and stops. Never does anything silly or stupid but then he has a great sense of self preservation; one of the reasons why he is a trail horse de-luxe.

[matryoshka]

Bungee ties are dangerous, because when something does break it turns into a big rubber band and flings whatever is still attached back at you (or the horse). A good friend of mine was hurt this way when a bungee broke and the snap hit her in the face.

[matryoshka]

One of my OTTB’s used to take the slack out of a tie, and then jerk his head to break the leather strap of his halter. There was no panic, just a casual, deliberate method. He couldn’t do this with the Blocker Tie ring, but by then I’d stopped tying him with a break-away halter. A loose horse is a serious liability out at a trail head.

[Beverley]

I’m also a fan of the inner tube method. Happily, both of my current horses came with advanced tying skills and WILL tie anywhere. If something spooks them, well, they’ll goose a bit, but they don’t even hit the end of the rope. I know that my gelding was trained using the inner tube method, don’t know about the mare.

Now, I will say that thanks to stupid me, my now 6 yo did break a leather halter once. But, I had him tied to my trailer in windy Wyoming, tacked and ready to hunt, and had forgotten to tie the escape door open before going around to the other side of the truck to put on spurs and coat. Door slammed shut on the poor guy- so yeah, he flipped his head up far enough to break a 30 year old weak leather halter. And then just stood there and waited for me to come put the bridle on.

Some years ago, I had my OTTB tied to a rail, with nylon halter and rope, and he pulled back. Struggled briefly and decided it wasn’t gonna work. Never had any issues with him again- and he was an older horse, probably accustomed to cross ties much of his life. Lends credence to the notion that those with the right sense of self preservation (essential to the health and well being of the rider) really do figure it out pretty fast.

[katarine]

I use an inner tube from a tire, cut the stem off, and do as G described. I use a rope halter and lead, fitted up snug, no hardware, tied ear tip height, with 18" of slack…on good ground with no stupid dogs around that would get into the ‘fight’ and no women and children to shriek in dismay. A ham sandwich 200’ away is not a bad idea. They are welcome to fight, fish, flop, grunt etc…I Don’t Care. they’ll get up and agree to tie.

Repeat til done, well done. NEVER tie a horse that has a history of setting back to anything he can break loose of, or get in a wreck with. Ever. Either hold 'em or tie them well.

All of the drama could’ve been avoided by teaching them to yield to pressure as babies. Maybe they did learn this, then got unlearned by too much babysitting and BS. tie 'em. They’ll figure it out.

[DebbieB]

If, as a kid, you tied your pony to a thin metal clothes line pole and they then pull back and ruin the pole it will probably teach you a lifelong lesson about always tying your horse to something that will hold them without breaking. Been there done that. lol.

I start by teaching the horse to yield to pressure, when they have learned that I start tying them for short periods and gradually increase the time to teach them patience.

I use rope halters on my horses and tie them at about ear height, if they pull their feet tend to slide forward so they can’t get as much power into it.

Strong springy high tree limbs are nice to tie to, they work like the inner tube when they spring back after a pull.

[TikiSoo]

@RackOn;4245841

Now someone will come on here and say “but my horse is so well trained he never pulls”. I’ve seen a horse sit back one time in 10 years, and that one time if the tie doesn’t hold you may have just created a puller and that is one of the hardest habits to break.

Yup.
My QH was trained to cross tie on sliding ties that “give” a little when pulled. She did OK the past 18 months in her new barn that uses heavy duty chain cross ties.
UNTIL
Somewhere out of the blue she became head shy about her fly mask and when I slid it off her she sat back on those hefty QH glutes and popped a snap, trotted smugly to her favorite pasture and self-rewarded.
This is her new routine, breaking 5 snaps in 5 days.

I have found looping the lead over the horse’s poll and back out the noseband also helps. It gives some poll pressure via the rope instead of expecting the halter to take all the “pull”. Dipsy QH has already broken a halter from pulling. Looking forward to trying the inner tube method.
THANKS!

[Auventera_Two]

Horses need to be taught as babies to tie and give to pressure. That avoids all the drama and years of train wrecks.

But if that hasn’t been done, then you have to teach it. You can use the John Lyons’ method of training to tie. Basically you attach a lead to their halter, then run the lead around a post or a tree. You don’t tie, them, but you hang onto the end of the rope. Tug gently and ask the horse to step forward toward the post. When they even so much as lean forward, release all pressure, and praise them with scratches and pets, treats, whatever. Keep doing this until it becomes second nature for the horse to lean or move forward when he feels pressure.

You have to use the post or the tree with the rope looped around it, so the horse associates that he is planted to a firm object. A horse will naturally want to take a step toward a human pulling on the lead rope out in the middle of the driveway because he’s been trained to lead and to move toward the human when the human tugs on the rope. So you have to now make the association with the solid post or tree.

After that has been thoroughly established, then you can start tying them high and tight. Use something that will NOT break. I don’t like those blocker rings and hay strings and all these gimmicks.

Just tie the horse with a stout leadrope and halter and be done with it. If the horse fights hard enough to hurt himself, or worse yet, breaks the halter or the snap on the leadrope, then put a neck collar on him and attach a 2nd leadrope to that. But if the horse is fighting and pulling back, you didn’t do your homework in Part 1 of teaching him to yield to pressure.

I think the worst thing you can do is use anything that will break. You should first teach them to yield to pressure until its 2nd nature, and then just tie them high and tight with something that will NOT break.

Horses turn into spoiled rotten pullers when they figure out that if they just pull a little bit harder, the ring will come flying out of the wall, or the halter will break, or the hay string will give way.

I think hitching rails are bad news, and cross ties shouldn’t even be attempted until a horse will stand tied to anything without even thinking about pulling back. Then introduce the cross ties or the hitching rail.

Be VERY careful about tying to the top board on a wooden fence, or a stall board, etc. A freaked out horse can rip down a whole section of fence, or tear the boards right off the wall. All of my stalls have corner posts that are 6x6 solid white pine that aren’t coming down unless the barn falls down with them.

[rmh]

I completely agree with the giving to pressure idea. I spend a lot of time on it and re-enforce it routinely. Many times at a rest stop I unhook one side of the reins and ground tie. People will see him step on the reins and get all upset. Doc just figures out which foot to move and he keeps on doing what he is doing. Once in a stream some how I let the reins sag and he got his leg looped he just stood there until I could bend over and unhook the reins. There is a lot of benefits from teaching a horse to give to pressure exerted on the poll or bit.