I have only ever used a chambon and german side reins. My trainer has ridden my horse a couple times in draw reins (I don’t trust my skill to use draw reins properly).
Basically anything I’ve used has been for temporary use and working on something very specific.
One of my fellow boarders rides her horse in draw reins every time she rides him because he inverts without them. Drives me insane. My horse used to do the same thing to me. I just needed to learn how to ride better.
A problem with the behind the elbow contraption, is that the timing of the pulls will be “off”. A horse naturally swings its head towards the landing foot, but with the way this is set up, the tug on the bit will be reversed, discouraging the natural swing of the back and encouraging the horse to tuck behind the bit with contracted muscles (the wrong muscles)
I didn’t read many replies, so sorry if I’m beating a dead horse.
I have a OTTB who raced nearly 70 times in 8 years. He was up and inverted for a very long time. I had a dressage coach, who at the time I greatly respected, suggest side reins on the lunge. She was against EVERYTHING except side reins.
So I lunged in side reins. My horse, who really reaches under himself looked the part. He looked like he was moving forward under saddle towards my contact. He was steady in my contact. However, if I dropped my reins to the buckle he wouldn’t stretch down long and low to reach for the bit. By training him in side reins he had figured out “well, this is where my head belongs” and that’s where it stayed.
I’m technically a hunter, and I sent him away for 30 days this past winter. The first time he was worked with he was pegged immediately as a horse that had been worked in side reins. There was no true relaxation. He was taught to stretch long and low, and really move through his back. Now when I pick up my contact he is light as a feather, and when I relax the contact he reaches for the bit. I may not ride any dressage tests this year, but if we do I can’t wait to show off my free walk.
Anyways, that’s my 2c. Your experience may vary of course.
A horse needs the strength to do a free walk on a long rein. It is done to warm up a horse and cool down a horse so is practiced each time you ride.
What happened to your horse happens if not practiced when being ridden and not worked in side reins correctly. You start without side reins to let them warm up and make sure they are are forward. Even an experienced horse should not be put in side reins in a working frame without making sure they are forward first. This can be done in walk, trot and canter. The horse will stretch down in walk, later in trot and one day in canter. It doesn’t happen overnight.
Then the side reins are put on loose. This allows the horse to go in a lower head set and stretch. It also allows you to check that something hasn’t happened overnight like a grass seed caught in the gums that you haven’t noticed that will affect the contact with the bit. Trot and canter only. Never walk in side reins it can create a lateral walk.
After that the reins can be tightened to a working frame. Now you want the poll as the highest. This happens from the lunger - not from the side reins. You can’t just sit in a chair in the middle and hold the rein above your head and think that the horse going around with side reins on will work. It will not. It is as individual as who is riding the horse as to who is lunging the horse. Trot and canter.
With the higher trained horses I go up another 2 holes, trot only and quality is better than quantity, they don’t have to go around more than 2 times.
I end with taking the side reins off and walking both ways. This creates a calm horse who is not trying to trot off all the time without thinking.
The side reins should never be cranked in to pull a horses nose in. When halted my horse’s heads are not vertical. They become vertical by being pushed from behind into the outside rein, not by the reins pulling them in.
I will add which I know this next bit is extremely controversial. This has been taught to me by many different horses for over 30 years.
Elasticated side reins teach a horse to lean and pull. Horses learn from a release of pressure. They pull, the elastic gives. Voila you have taught your horse to pull.
Solid side reins over here can be almost impossible to buy. It is not side reins that maim and kill horses. It is people using side reins incorrectly that maim and kill horses. If you get the type with the rubber rings. It normally has a solid strap behind it. You can cut off the rings.
The reins hold. The reins do not pull. If the horse pulls they hold. If the horse gives they give. So the horse gets the release of pressure from giving. The horse now has a soft mouth to the bit and to your hands. From here on the lunge and under saddle, you teach them to go forward into the bit and into the outside rein. It gives the horse confidence in the bit.
Isabelle Werth says she ‘lunges only’ her young horses, every 2nd day as it allows them to find their own rhythm and tempo. They are ridden every 2nd day. If Isabelle Werth thinks it is better lunging than her riding them, when she is one of the best riders in the World, then it must be better than us trying to do it by riding. JMHO.
So I have no elastic, all leather side reins. I would lunge for five-ten with no side reins, then clip them up allowing them as long as they would go. I did not experience a horse that would ever stretch down in them. I am not here to argue with Isabelle Worth, I just wanted to share my experience as an adult amateur and side reins.
Not to single you out merrygoround, but I think this attitude of response is condescending and discourages open discussion. I’ve seen countless examples of this, “If you have to ask you can’t possibly be qualified” attitude and it reduces the value of these forums.
You did not say you were asking for long and low under saddle when you were riding. I presume you were not as you said you found out the horse could not do it. These things work together. My horses are not lunged for 10 minutes all up. I get on and ride afterwards. They will stretch down without the side reins and in the longer sidereins. They were taught under saddle first.
As long as the side reins will go does not mean anything. Some horses I have had to add extra holes for them. Some I start on the original hole 3. Some have long necks, some have short necks. It is different if you are using a saddle or the rings on the side of a roller. Each horse has to have the hole for their level of training.
As I said above lunging is as individual and actually quite as interesting as riding.
So just as generally (not everyone) only do dressage so as they get to do cross country to jump, do not actually like or take interest in dressage. Where as those who have found the light are happy to ride dressage and love it and do not feel the need to have to jump.
The horse will go differently for each rider. A beginner who is doing flatwork because they have to, will not get as much out of a horse as a professional who can ride and loves dressage.
The same with lunging. Someone who loves lunging and has studied it to the degree of going up the levels, will get more from the horse on the lunge, than someone who is only doing it because they want to get the energy out of the horse to ride.
The more experienced at lunging correctly will get more out of a horse than the person who lunges incorrectly for the same amount of time. You will also find the latter has the horse on the lunge for a longer period of time which then affects their joints, which is another thing you hear about as a con of lunging.
As I said quality is better than quantity and 10 minutes working correctly in side reins is equal to an hour of riding.
All tools have a purpose if used correctly. Draw reins should be used next to never. It would take a really spoiled, ruined horse for me to resort to draw reins and even then I’d have to think twice. They cause so many more problems than they purport to fix. Side reins on the other hand are great. I have a standard response when someone tells me they “don’t like side reins.” If they are good enough for the SRS, they are good enough for me. End of discussion.
The thing in the picture is new to me. I wouldn’t use it because (again, just based on that photo) it looks like a recipe for putting a horse on the forehand. JMHO
This seems self limiting to me. There are many roads that lead to Rome in horsemanship. If someone is capable of articulating a clear reason as to why they dislike/don’t use side reins, then that’s a springboard for a healthy debate. Not for a thought-terminating cliche. I can think of several 20th/21st century horsemen off the top of my head who weren’t fond of side reins, and their outlooks have informed my approach to groundwork just as much as the outlooks of trainers who made good use of side reins.
Of course, it’s a bit different if someone can’t articulate a good reason, but I believe that the same principle of the thought-terminating cliche still applies. I’d rather take the time to show someone where they can learn about side reins rather than leave them intellectually frustrated and resistant.
Another reason for lunging in side reins is it creates a very safe horse. Just because you are not riding at a higher level does not mean you cannot lunge at a higher level. You can work a horse correctly on the lunge. You can learn to do this much quicker than learning to ride a Grand Prix DressageTest.
The problem most riders have with OTTBs is that the horse is being ridden but it is actually not being worked. Because they are riding in walk, trot and canter and jumping jumps the rider thinks they are working a horse, however tbs can do all of that and are actually only being warmed up and not actually working.
The trouble with riding a tb, even daily and not giving it any actual work, or lunging it daily, not using side reins and not giving any actual work is that the horse gets fitter. Then the owner also makes the horse happy with saddle fit, teeth, hooves, vet, chiro, etc. They feed them grain.
So now you have a fit and happy big puppy that you are getting on. The grain fills them with energy. You now have the Perfect Storm. The rider will always say it was suddenly out of the blue. This type of joy is not good for a rider and you never know what it can lead to. Each horse is different, one took to leaping. He could clear a 3 foot fence. One jumped and twisted the rider out of the saddle. Others buck with joy. Others bolt, others spin and bolt, others shy, others go up.
The general rule is that you don’t have a hotblood as your first horse. This includes tbs and Arabs.
I was given a tb. He was totally green. I also knew he was not the horse for me. No pizazz.
So I started lunging him but I went one further and put my husband on him on the lunge. I had started teaching him on Pepper but that was quite a while ago.
My ulterior motive was to get hubby to bond with the horse. So I lunged hubby with a lesson on Sim in side reins and then I rode him afterwards. A 50 acre paddock.
Once we had an arena, Sim came along quite well. Hubby came up quite well and now can ride with contact. He now can work a horse when I am there to give a lesson. Without me there I think he is only warming up and not working the horses.
But he is now the one who lunges them in side reins. So I am completely happy to go and stay at my mothers over 1 hour away and know that he is as safe as can be. He can lunge and work the horses alone at home. He can gauge from that if the horse is safe to ride. The horse is safe to ride. I sleep well and don’t worry. You can not buy that peace of mind.
He now has 2 ex racehorses that he rides and adores. Touchwood he has not come off yet. We have had Sim for at least 7 years now. Dodge for at least 3 years.
@SuzieQNutter I almost replied to your earlier comment to say that the assumption that one cannot equally enjoy the excitement of jumping and the magic of dressage rankles me in the same way as people who say my sexuality cannot exist because one can’t possibly be attracted to both sexes does.
Moving on, I think you might have been reading into my comment a little much. Unless you meant to quote my earlier comment in which I said I wasn’t the biggest fan of side reins? Or you’re willing to open up to a discussion on the merits of side reins, and of lunging in general? Which is wonderful if you are! I strongly believe that we equestrians are far too dogmatic about our beliefs, and broadening our horizons can make us better problem solvers with our horses. I’d be more than happy to share my own experiences if you’re interested in sharing in them with an open mind!
Yes please Llewellyn. I do not think that all horses need to be lunged.
and my horses do not need to be lunged to be ridden.
What I am saying is that it is not bad to be lunged if lunged correctly. I am not saying horses have to be lunged.
Horses are hurt, maimed, killed and go incorrectly if lunged incorrectly. They can go around in side reins not giving to the inside rein. They can fight the side reins. This is not the fault of the side reins. This is the sole fault of the lunger.
This does not happen in my hands and yes I have taken hubby’s very hot mare, bought without me who was horizontal to the sky, trained western and bucked and me banned from riding her when alone, into a safe dressage mount ridden alone without bucking.
My husband came to watch me lunge the other day with Stars, he said that it is plain to see that Stars is trying his heart out for me.
and as I said I do find it interesting. I would LOVE to go and have lessons in lunging and long reining. Yes I know I am a freak?!! I mean I have been lunging and long reining for decades but I would like to learn what they do in the SRS. but I don’t know of anyone who teaches it.
My husband is nearly 60 years old. I myself am nearly 50 years old. We have no one here to help if we are injured. No instructor, no trainer. We always ride alone - me when he is at work, him when I am visiting my Mum. I am too old to ride anything that bucks and yes told that Stars is a bucker when bought. He jumps then bucks. I felt it once when thankfully on a steep slope. OMG the power. He does know how to use that hind end!
I use the lunging as I said to keep the horses saner so safer, well as safe as we can be getting on ex racehorses so much bigger than us and yes my horses are being fed a hard feed and are at the moment quite well rounded. Alas I don’t know what is going to happen as the drought continues and we now have zilch grass. They do have saddles that don’t leave dry patches and have vet and chiro.
I am not against jumping if that is what you thought from my post. I LOVED cross country. I used to compete in show jumping , jumping equitation, eventing and cross country. Hubby has never been interested in jumping and floored me when at an ODE my mother was judging the dressage at, way before he started riding, I said come on let’s go, the advanced are about to go cross country.
He said he would rather stop and watch the dressage and it was only kids doing preliminary. Yes I think he is a freak!!!
Star’s I would like to start to jump. I have started him on trot poles. I do take him out trail riding and I have taken him down to move the cattle a couple of times.
So really it is up to the individual and if they want to lunge or not, but if lunged correctly the horse is working the correct muscles, sane, safe, not injured, maimed or killed.
…but it does take extra time and effort. It is much easier just tacking up and riding.
Well, I hope you don’t think I’m anti-lunging! I think the amount one can do with a lunge line and the requisite equipment (for one’s definition of requisite equipment!) is very interesting. However…I have never been blessed with the luxury of a good horse. I have certainly ridden many nice horses, but for myself I tend to attract the bottom-of-the-barrel cast offs. My old instructor used to joke about it being my curse; she’d even go out and find ads for quirky horses and try and pawn them off on me.
So with that in mind, bringing these horses around often took some serious lateral thinking! The two biggest troublemakers (and my two favorites, of course) were the perpetually nervous failed barrel prospect (because of course he’ll be good at barrels; he likes to go fast!) and the middle aged QH that had actually been deliberately flipped over a few times on the lunge line by a wannabe Clinton Anderson.
Now, my old instructor was very well grounded in the classical in hand and long line work, and she spent a lot of time passing that onto me. And for the first horse, I found the in hand work to be much more helpful in getting him to relax mentally and physically than I ever did the lunging. Because with the in-hand work, I was right there with him, getting instant feedback on how he felt physically, and how he was feeling mentally. So I never had to worry about leaving him alone with his thoughts for too long, especially during those first few weeks. I could change the bend, change the direction, change the balance, or change the gait even as often as I needed to. And because I was playing with the bend and balance, I still got that benefit of the gymnastic work.
The second horse had the double whammy of the (rightful imo) fear of lunging and a challenging confirmation. I used a lot of in hand work again to strengthen his hind end and free his shoulders up a bit, but I also took an unorthodox path to getting him to be comfortable lunging again. He was trained to ground drive (not long line, just ground drive) by the person who broke him, so I went back to that and slowly turned ground driving into double lunging, and then removed the outside line. First in a round pen so he still had the illusion of confinement on the outside, then in the big arena. Here I refrained from using side reins because my big goal was to get him comfortable lunging again and the gymnastic work on the ground was coming from the in hand work anyways.
But if the situation called for it, I would absolutely lunge a horse very traditionally. In fact most recently I was keeping a friend’s horse fit while she was pregnant, and I felt that the horse could have benefited from some time in side reins as part of a program. But I didn’t want to overstep my boundaries; I was there specifically to keep the horse (another barrel horse, of course) in shape. Not to train the horse to do something different!
Yes I end up with the throwaways too. The last one had been leased out to the light brigade by his showjumping owner. If you don’t know what that is it is people who recreate the charge of the light brigade. Something that the Aussies were famous for, as they won a battle with it during a war and against fast fire stable guns.
So hundreds of riders galloping flat out together.
A lot of soldiers who couldn’t ride so they put curbed bits, drop nosebands and standing martingaled on the mounts. Australian stock horses. You can see them being bought for the army in the movie The Man From Snowy River II.
This was a tb and the chiropractor said he was out every which way possible as you can imagine.
He was way too skinny. To start with his canter on the lunge was a gallop. To start with he would pull away from me on the lunge. I saw it before it happened and still couldn’t stop it. He was an expert at that. Now I know why the person who sold him for the owner said to lunge him in a round yard. I don’t have one. Under saddle he did not have a left lead canter transition, he could not canter a circle.
In the end he was fat, reaching down on the lunge and not galloping. His dressage muscles and his colouring turned him into a beautiful looking horse. His owner left comments in the book about how safe and confident she felt on him. He NEVER put one foot wrong with her. She did do a canter on him.
He was here about 4 months and not much done in the last month. She was not interested in him so I didnt see the point of wasting time on him I was doing as a favour. Then it was too wet. Then I came down with a case of Gastroenteritis. She did not come to see him. I told her horses don’t get sold here send him back to the girl who sold him to you for the previous owner.
He was sold within a week back to his previous owner and I was told he looked a million dollars and going so much better.
When longlining or double rein lunging I do that without using the side reins.
The horses are also taught to come when called. Stand still without a halter for grooming and tacking. Leading correctly with and without a halter. Touching all over. Giving to pressure in a halter, etc, etc etc. He was quite a different horse when he left. No demonstration from me so that will probably not be continued. Not my horse. So I have no opinion.
I regularly use Vienna Reins / Lauffer Reins / Sliding Side Reins / Whatever you choose to call them, when lunging my horses, which is probably once / occasionally twice a week. They warm up with them off, then work in them for 20 minutes before having them off again to cool down.
Happily put my hand up to having used draw reins on my pony who would head toss in upwards canter transitions - as a last resort after trying to fix it with riding alone for 3 months. Half a dozen transitions with draw reins engaged in the upwards transition to canter and he was fixed. This was on a very educated pony whom i had allowed this bad habit to establish in.
Yes I used draw reins on my first horse who was not getting the inkling of contact. It was wonderful and worked in minutes. I can see why people think they are the bee’s knees. Now a better rider I do not need to do that. I can do it myself.
I have also had lessons on a Grand Prix Dressage horse in a snaffle with draw reins in 2 lessons. Normally we had lessons on him without. I trusted his trainer that for some reason he needed them as a tune up, but I can’t see my current trainer suggesting that.
I am the Queen of getting them to stretch down. His comment to me is that they are lower than western pleasure horses. All he ever tells me is he wants them higher. Finally he put me on a school horse who needed to learn to stretch down. Yes easy for me!
I have no problems posting videos of me lunging my young horses. I use side reins to help contain the shoulders because my Saddlebreds and crosses tend to swing their necks around like a crane and it throws them off balance - the loose side reins help keep them much straighter. I have also used a bungee aid when they’re further along in their training to encourage them to stretch their necks down without “forcing” them into a position. I have yet to have any injury or any kind of fight or issue starting them this way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXXMk0kd4NQ
I’ve never seen the contraption the OP is using but it looks a bit too constricting for my taste… which is a bit ironic considering that is why she says she doesn’t like other “gadgets”…
I literally had to do this, too. After years of doing sloppy walk-canter transitions as a not-so-good jumper rider, it was REALLY hard to retrain him that he couldn’t invert in the transition. He escaped every single time no matter how I rode it. After a couple of years, I put draw reins on him for 3 rides and worked on the transitions so he understood what I want very clearly.
I also use draw reins on this horse for trot sets, on the rare occasion we do them. He doesn’t hack out sanely, and has been prone to bolting. I call the draw reins my “e-brake” and usually they are loose and floppy. I would rather use them than bit him up to trot around.
As far as side reins, I have always been taught to use side reins when lunging. I use the softest ones available on my young OTTB- no donut, half leather and half elastic. It just helped clarify things for when I got on regarding yielding to the bit. I am in the camp that doesn’t see any point in lunging a horse with no side reins or sliding side reins because you are just making them cardio-wise more fit and not helping yourself at all.
@Susie Q Nutter-Podhajsky’s book, “The Complete Training of Horse and Rider” gives an excellent lesson in longing. I had learned from someone who had been there and done that before I read the book. I found it very accurate.
The discussion of side reins has a simple answer. Side reins are only as good as they are adjusted.
They are only as good as they are adjusted and how the lunger keeps them forward and working correctly with them.
thank you so much. I will look for that book now.
I found it online. 3 different covers. Is this the same book inside or are they a series?
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