Training aids/equipment for horses

[Aphrodite]

Hey everyone,

.

I am not a fan of draw reins nor side reins, so I refrain to use them. However I recently bought this for my four yr: [IMG]https://www.triequestrian.ie/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/c687aa7517cf01e65c009f6943c2b1e9/3/2/320-0033-02_1.jpg)

I am using this twice a week for a 20mins lunge session, x1 with pole work and the other just a regular lunge with loads of transitions.

My horse is naturally balanced, and uphill in his paces and has a high neck carriage but since he is still young and only recently I’ve started to work him more often under saddle, he can work with quite a high carriage not necessarily hollow but can be at times - so I decided to make sure that he supples his back and learns to stretch down a bit more. but my only worry is that I dont want to teach him to work on the front legs, since he naturally works from the backend - does it make sense?

Let me know your thoughts.

[Rerider54]

It might work for you… but I know my horse would end up with a rope burn over her withers.

I am not not a fan of draw reins as I don’t consider my hands THAT good. I have used side reins on the lunge line for horses who understand contact and never set them to force the horse behind the vertical. I do like a chambon on the lunge as it allows the horse to adjust themselves to slightly different positions and find what is comfortable for them. Again, not so tight as to be behind the vertical.

I also would NEVER use anything at all restricting when going over poles. I have seen horses trip/fall while going over poles and not be able to use their necks. It only takes one bad foot fall and with the tied down neck and strapped shut mouth… the horse had half his tongue severed.

Lots of ‘aids’ are used by many people and work just fine. I have seen many horses restarted who benefited from short durations of draw reins. I have also seen horse flip over backwards. Guess I have seen a lot of crazy horses.

[Aphrodite]

@Rerider54

It might work for you… but I know my horse would end up with a rope burn over her withers…

The rope is actually super soft and elastic, so the contact is never fixed and i always give enough length to put his head comfortably.

[Lunabear1988]

I’m so far from a professional or an expert ect. But I’m wouldn’t use that rope thing pictured. It just looks like that is no way that a horse couldn’t just go low and with a closed throatlatch which isn’t what I’m looking for personally.

Now I have used long side reins or Vienna reins (which are similar to draw reins but I Never use them while riding and only under supervision of a trainer. I read that Ingrid Klimke uses them.)

As with any gadget, there is the potential for harm or ill effects so I think you just have to be aware of how to use it and what it can do if used wrongly.

But again, I’m far from an expert so I hope others will chime in. Take my thoughts as a grain of salt 😂

[Denali6298]

I would never use that. Plus my horse would find someone way to get tangled up.

[Arlomine]

I’m so sorry, but of all contraptions to use, I really hate this. It’s unsafe at the least, and in my opinion is very poor training if you want to produce a dressage horse.
The whole point of Young Dressage Horses learning about contact is TRUST, and learning to stretch into a softly receptive, stable and elastic contact.
This is NOT that.
Western riders use this set up to “shake” the horse off the bit. It is notoriously difficult to retrain horses to come into contact when they have been trained to “give” to a side-to-side jerk like this.

Your horse gets yanked alternately on the mouth every step he takes, as the elbow swings back. Do you want to ride that way? I hope not.
One athletic leap and that rope can slip to the knee or fetlock, and it’s attached to the mouth. Pain, potential real damage, and piss-poor “design”.

please do more research regarding what you goals are when using a training devise. Most are restrictive, and many (like this one) are coercive. In my opinion, the least potentially damaging one is a correctly adjusted chambon.

[CanteringCarrot]

That “device” is quite popular here in Germany and I have no idea why.

I will occasionally longe my horse in sidereins, but I don’t really longe much. I’ll long line every now and again as that’s more useful to me. I also do a lot of walk hacks with relaxed head carriage and a swinging walk. I include hills too. This builds top line and is more interesting than going in circles.

[evilc123]

I am a proponent of certain devices if used properly and as needed. I know that an awful lot of people are extremely against the Pessoa system, but I rescued a horse with severe kissing spine and had to build up his topline without being able to sit on his back in order for him to be eligible for surgery. The Pessoa system literally saved his life. It took just a few months (Pessoa ~15 mins every other day and long lining on alternating days) to develop his back muscles to where they needed to be to rehab from surgery. I think that devices get a bad rap due to frequent misuse by people who are using them as a crutch or shortcut; but they do have their time and place.

[Rackonteur]

@Aphrodite

Hey everyone,

I would like to start a quick discussion on what do you guys think of training aids, such as side-reins, draw-reins and the cotton rope aid (don’t know the name).

I am not a fan of draw reins nor side reins, so I refrain to use them. However I recently bought this for my four yr:

I am using this twice a week for a 20mins lunge session, x1 with pole work and the other just a regular lunge with loads of transitions.

My horse is naturally balanced, and uphill in his paces and has a high neck carriage but since he is still young and only recently I’ve started to work him more often under saddle, he can work with quite a high carriage not necessarily hollow but can be at times - so I decided to make sure that he supples his back and learns to stretch down a bit more. but my only worry is that I dont want to teach him to work on the front legs, since he naturally works from the backend - does it make sense?

Let me know your thoughts.

It’s good that you’re concerned about equipment and its effect on your horse.

I’d be equally concerned about your wording. Just as in dressage. One doesn’t “refrain to” use something. One either “refuses to use” it, or “refrains from using” it. A grammarian, like a dressage judge, would mark you down for that.

[XXS]

This rope has only one benefit: it is easy to buckle on. For your horse a chambon may work. I see mostly vienna (side) reins and padded cavesson (which I prefer nowadays).

[Scribbler]

A good rider can do everything they need to do about mouth, posture, balance in hand and in the saddle.

A rig like this trains a horse to respond to pressure from a direction impossible for a rider ( reins between the front legs). Doesn’t make sense to me.

[outerbanks77]

This type of setup was great when I rode western pleasure, but I can’t think of a valid reason to direct a dressage horse’s nose down between the front legs. These days I sparingly employ Lauffer reins, which are running side reins that attach at two points on each side so the horse can adjust position within sideboards of the reins without pulling chin in to chest.

[Llewellyn]

I agree with the other posters that a chambon would work better than this contraption, but you can get the same results with time and good training exercises.

In general I’m not a huge fan of training aids at all, not even side reins when lunging. The trigonometry never seems to work out right. But I also don’t do much lunging in general; I prefer long lining and in hand work.

[RedHorses]

With any training aid you need to have a clear understanding of what you want to accomplish through it’s use. This way you can assess if it is having the desired effect or affecting your horse in an unexpected or undesirable way. This also allows you to identify when the purpose has been achieved and stop using that training aid.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

[SuzieQNutter]

What I see in that contraption is draw reins which you said you do not like.

i refuse to use devices on a horse. They are not quck in the end.

Side reins are not classed as a device. I do use them. They should never be used to pull a horse’s head in. They should never be used in walk. When used correctly they work a horse correctly and create the right muscles. When used incorrectly horses have been killed.

Draw reins do not create correct work and do not create the correct muscles.

You only want to ask for long and low in warm up and cool down. When working you want the poll as the highest point of the neck. I don’t see that happening in that contraption.
.

[endlessclimb]

@Rerider54

It might work for you… but I know my horse would end up with a rope burn over her withers.

I am not not a fan of draw reins as I don’t consider my hands THAT good. I have used side reins on the lunge line for horses who understand contact and never set them to force the horse behind the vertical. I do like a chambon on the lunge as it allows the horse to adjust themselves to slightly different positions and find what is comfortable for them. Again, not so tight as to be behind the vertical.

I also would NEVER use anything at all restricting when going over poles. I have seen horses trip/fall while going over poles and not be able to use their necks. It only takes one bad foot fall and with the tied down neck and strapped shut mouth… the horse had half his tongue severed.

Lots of ‘aids’ are used by many people and work just fine. I have seen many horses restarted who benefited from short durations of draw reins. I have also seen horse flip over backwards. Guess I have seen a lot of crazy horses.

I think you’re thinking of a degogue, not a chambon. A chambon has no impact on the tip of the nose at all, and works solely on poll pressure. A horse can be as open and in front of the vertical as he likes in a chambon.

[merrygoround]

I will and have used sliding side reins,and side reins, both are carefully adjusted so that when standing or walking the reins allow the head to come up.

Draw reins I consider a razor in the hands of all but a few.

That arrangement picture is one jump from rollkur, and not for someone who has to ask about the different sorts of training devices.

[Rerider54]

@endlessclimb

I think you’re thinking of a degogue, not a chambon. A chambon has no impact on the tip of the nose at all, and works solely on poll pressure. A horse can be as open and in front of the vertical as he likes in a chambon.

Right! I think the set up I have used can be set up either as a chambon or a degogue. Not using it on current horse, last used on another horse about 30 years ago, hence my faulty memory. The current horse is almost violently opposed to any gadgets. She dislikes lunge work since she did a bunch when we were doing her rehab. She did enjoy work in hand, go figure.

[SuzieQNutter]

I used a chambon. It is for asking a horse to lower it’s head. My mare loved it, she could go in that and do absolutely no work at all.

You can ask for long and low in side reins, you can adjust to ask for correct work.

The head is not pulled in to use side reins correctly. You want the poll the highest not rollkur.

[Wanderosa]

@Llewellyn

I agree with the other posters that a chambon would work better than this contraption, but you can get the same results with time and good training exercises.

In general I’m not a huge fan of training aids at all, not even side reins when lunging. The trigonometry never seems to work out right. But I also don’t do much lunging in general; I prefer long lining and in hand work.

I’m far from an expert, but that’s always been my thought as well. Watched someone using a German martingale on a young horse and it seemed to have the exact opposite effect desired. 100% of the horse’s attention and energy went into fighting the downward pull and he was going around like a hollow giraffe with his head braced against it.

For all I know that could be what’s supposed to happen, but any training aid that creates muscular tension where none existed before strikes me as counterproductive. I’m a singing teacher. One big thing I remind students of constantly is to TELL me right away if something I’m asking them to do is creating tension or frustration. Because good singing technique shouldn’t produce either. I’m a relative newbie to dressage; thankfully my horse isn’t. In the brief, shining moments I manage to ride correctly, there’s this glorious feeling of tremendous power and free, swingy relaxation in the horse’s gaits.