Training bark inhibition

[Abbie.S]

SO and I have realized we’ve gotten extraordinarily lucky with our previous dogs, even moreso considering they’ve all been GSDs, who tend to be barkers.

We’ve got a 5mo GSD puppy who is doing super in his training, except bark inhibition. Granted, he’s obviously young…I don’t expect him to be perfect or anything close, and I don’t expect him to be super consistent with certain things for some time, but the “quiet” command is the one he’s having the most trouble with. He’s in training with me as a PTSD service dog and because of his desire to bark it’s tough to advance him in some of the exposure training because we can’t get him past the barking phase. He almost never barks at home (inside the house), but once he’s outside he’ll bark without provocation (literally…squatting to do his business, in the yard he sees multiple times a day every day, with nothing stimulating in sight, and he’s barking at absolutely nothing).

Because we can’t always identify WHAT he’s barking at, it’s hard to train it around the stimulus, so we’re going to train around the behavior itself. I have very little experience training with any aids/collars: interrupting in the moment and teaching the “quiet” command has always worked with previous dogs. This guy will either bark right through the command or pause for a moment and start in again, and when he’s too stimulated you can’t get through to him at all. (I should state - he’s not a 24/7 barker or anything like that - it’s sporadic enough that sometimes it’s awful, other times it’s totally manageable, and the rest of the time it’s a non-issue. It’s the sporadic nature of the barking that’s become problematic.)

I’m not super psyched about an E-collar for obvious reasons. This puppy is quite sensitive and very sensible for his age. Anyone have experience using vibration collars or other types of devices that help reach dogs who are past the point where they can tune into you easily? Any other advice is welcome.

[SuzieQNutter]

I have been told to teach them to stop barking, you teach them to bark on command first, then teach them to stop. I have never done it though.

As with you I was lucky with my dog. We went to 4th class in 4 months, but then I moved away for work and did not take him with me, as he was happy at home on the Agistment property with Mum and people visiting all the time.

[Simkie]

What I’ve found super effective with barking dogs is asking them to do something ELSE, and then praising effusively.

My dog barks when cars come to the house, and then runs up to the cars (I’m nearly always working outside, and she’s with me.) She’s a big dog, and that scares the cr@p out of the Amazon delivery people. I started having her run to me when people come, and that’s short circuited the barking and the running–now when cars come to the house, she comes and finds me. It’s perfect.

The older I get, the more I see redirection & positive reinforcement as the best training tools over correction and negative reinforcement. It just works so much better to get the dog in line with you. Think less bark collar and more about what you can do to redirect his attention to you in a positive way.

[luvmyhackney]

I have found redirecting to work best with my barking beagle. I thank him for letting me know and move him on to doing something else. Usually a toy or a few minutes of obedience work.

Not perfect by any means. I don’t like an ecollar, but do use one for my dog, I have it as last resort. I don’t see how it would be as effective for barking as redirecting.

[Abbie.S]

I feel the same regarding redirection. The tricky part for me is because he is in training as a service dog, he will eventually be going into all manner of public places, where stimuli are going to be completely out of my control and even most alert barks will be inappropriate. I’ve admittedly never trained a service dog from puppyhood - our past dogs have been fully-grown (at least 18 mo) when we got them and so I have no idea what kind of phases and development they went through as puppies when it came to things like this.

I guess a lot of it will depend on how well he takes to redirection as he matures: this is a working line of GSD so they are bred to be very people oriented. I have a friend who uses e-collars on her hunting dogs, but in that case we’re talking a very intense, high prey drive dog that is much more independent-minded.

[S1969]

@Abbie.S

I have a friend who uses e-collars on her hunting dogs, but in that case we’re talking a very intense, high prey drive dog that is much more independent-minded.

They are just tools. How you use it is up to you - and trainers would tell you that you never should use more than you need. So for some dogs, that is just a vibration or tone, and never a shock. And you may not realize that the “shock” can be so low that the dog may not even feel it, or care about it (meaning it’s too low).

For bark inhibition, though, I would also consider a bark collar. They are very effective and work off the vibration of the dog’s vocal cords, so the correction is immediate. And dogs learn quickly, and can absolutely tell if they have it on. So - if you want your dog to be able to bark at home, not having the collar on him would allow him to bark if there was an intruder, etc.

I might not introduce it quite yet - only because at 5 months puppies are still in a growth period that can include stages of fear which is normal…I might not try too hard to inhibit barking yet because it may just go away on its own. But I would research and ask trainers you trust about bark collars. I would only use quality equipment for electric collars - they tend to have more features and ranges of stimuli so you can turn the correction down very low. And I would never use the citronella type. That’s just cruel.

Teaching the dog to vocalize might help too. I taught one of my dogs to whisper so that I could control it if he wanted to vocalize in the show ring. If I whisper the command, he responds in a whisper. It’s adorable, even if not useful.

[Simkie]

@Abbie.S

The tricky part for me is because he is in training as a service dog, he will eventually be going into all manner of public places, where stimuli are going to be completely out of my control and even most alert barks will be inappropriate.

IMO, this is where redirection really shines. Looking to you for direction when faced with exciting, non controllable things instead of barking his head off is EXACTLY what you want.

[Abbie.S]

Thank you both. Yes, agreed, the redirection is so invaluable at this stage. I can see it in him already with things like recall - in a high stimulus environment (on a woods walk with other dogs, for example) he’ll recall immediately but can’t always follow through with the sit-and-wait-to-be-released-again part of the recall. That’s fine - it’ll come with increased emotional regulation: the fact that he recalls at all in a stimulating environment is the important part.

Perhaps that’s the piece I’m forgetting: he’s 5mo old. Sounds stupid, but when you’ve largely had 18mo+ dogs, it’s easy to forget how much learning goes on in that period.

[Abbie.S]

Obligatory puppy pictures…

[luvmyhackney]

Lord how mercy, that is the sweetest face. What a doll.

[Jenerationx]

Ooooh… I want to pet the ears. So adorable. He’s a baby still at 5 months old. I wouldn’t be too concerned at this stage. Redirection would be my first option… use food if he’s food motivated. If that doesn’t interrupt, then I would consider a vibration collar set to the lowest setting and only turned up at all if he blows through that. It’s sometimes just enough to get their attention and then redirect.

[Abbie.S]

Yes, I have to keep reminding myself that he’s still a baby. He’s so mature with some things it’s easy to forget he’s still so young.

I sometimes find myself in the same situation when someone wants me to start a young horse…most of the horses people send me are older and need a lot of correcting and blocking because they’ve been allowed to develop bad habits. They aren’t fresh, clean slates that don’t know anything and so I spend a lot more time directly addressing things to help them develop better patterns versus presenting an idea and letting them figure out how to respond, as I would with a baby. It’s been the same with our dogs thus far, so I’m glad for the reminder to stop and remember that he doesn’t have any bad habits yet…he hasn’t had time to develop them!

[lenapesadie]

He’s very cute. I love that ear stage!

I own a Barky McBarkPants dog. She doesn’t bark mindlessly though. She barks at things, even if said things don’t appear to be things to me right away. She’ll be 4 this fall and I’m usually able to identify what she’s barking at now. Might be a bird or a neighbor 5 doors down, but it is something not nothing.

I’d say your dog is a bit young for a collar but others feel differently.

Redirection is more useful imo. What was key for my dog is the type of redirection. An obedience blitz through poses (sit, down, stand) was pretty useless. She can happily bark and do all that. Redirecting to a game of tug or fetch is better. Or heel and leave the area. Granted I’m not fussed about my dog’s barking as that’s her job in life so take all the above with that in mind. I’m aware that may not be practical for a service dog hopeful.

If I had a situation like yours, I’d be tempted to copy the work I’ve seen training medical alert dogs. Identify a trigger that causes barking (lawn mower running, strange car in driveway, whatever) and work a leave it command on whatever known triggers I could identify. Get that solid and then apply in more known triggers. Then move to more varied circumstances. Vigorous, age appropriate exercise first of course.

It would be preferable if your pup turns out to be barking at something as opposed to truly barking at nothing. But of course with such a young dog it may just be a phase.

Not all dogs are suitable for service work. Certainly with the medical alert work I’ve seen, the actual medical alert work is the easy part. Convincing the dogs in question, Mals, that they don’t need to control everything that moves is the hard part.

Your pup is super adorable and I hope y’all are able to move through this without much difficulty.