Training help please

[luckymaverick]

If this has been in other threads, please let me know and I will search again.

I’m working on teaching an Arab pony (22 this year) to do trail in hand and showmanship. We’re both new to it. Currently trying to lay the foundation for side pass, then pivot, then backing everywhere.

When I ask for her to yield her shoulders she just walks off, and she can swing her butt, however it’s not the crossover.

Pivot is a hot mess. I get maybe one step of crossover then she swings her butt or walks off.

Backing up is another issue, as it takes way too much pressure. She doesn’t care if I’m in her space. She’s not pushy, she’s just mellow.

Given that we are not Western trained foundation, I was hoping there might be some websites or videos to teach me to teach her.

I just want to be able to hold our own against the QH at our shows this summer

She is a well-trained schoolie with English/Hunt Seat background. She does Arab halter very well

[Foxglove]

A brief search of YouTube shows many videos on training showmanship.

For us, the key was: Make the right response easy and the wrong one hard.

I am sure you know that in-hand work, especially showmanship, is a long training process. My granddaughter loved showmanship, and made it her mission to train her horse so that he could compete at the highest levels against some World and Congress horses. She was successful. Watching her with Max, her horse, was like watching a pair of beautiful dancers. She could move her shoulder slightly and Max would move his hind leg —if she took a step–he took a step. They were amazing --(she grew up and Max still lives with me), When she was 10 she got Max as a birthday present. They spent the next 9 years learning and practicing showmanship. She could and did ride, but showmanship was her thing.

For hours --four hours a day --two hours in the AM and two in the PM, she worked with Max. It took about two years before they started hitting the ribbons --and eventually, they were first or second in every showmanship class they entered.

Now, to your questions —do you have a heavy weight chain and shank and a properly fitted halter? Do you know how to put the chain on the halter (through the side ring, under the chin, out the far side ring and up to the cheek ring is how we did it). We also used a dressage length crop.

Next, always do your showmanship after you ride --but ALWAYS do showmanship after you ride. Take the saddle off, and put the halter on.

Start with training the horse to walk when you walk, and stop when you stop. He is to keep his eye at your shoulder. Walk briskly. If he lags, tug the chain (that’s uncomfortable for the horse) if he surges ahead, pull back. The SECOND the horse walks with you, stop (don’t face the horse, just stop) --do that about 1000 times and the horse will always walk with you on a loose shank. Then move to squaring up. When you stop, face the horse, his eye should be level with the middle of your chest. At that moment, he should put all four of his feet in line (Arabs may have a different stance, I think they do). Have a helper tap-tap-tap front feet until they are aligned. Count to five, and walk on. Do it again (and again and again, 1000 times ) until every time you face horse, those front feet square up. Fortunately, most of the time the back feet teach themselves, but same thing if not.

For backing, be clear in your signal. We say shush, shush, shush. When you step forward your shoulder should almost bump the nose --or it would if horse was not backing up too. Use your dressage crop to tap front legs smartly enough that horse steps back to avoid. Then stop. Go forward. Walk a bit, stop, square, then cue the back–do that 1000 times and the second you say shush or step forward into the horse, he will back. Then work on asking him to do so with his head lower . . .

Ahhh, the pivot --stop worrying about the back legs --they will sort themselves. The pivot is a FORWARD movement. Standing with your bellybutton directly across from the horse’s left eye, hold your dressage whip horizontal and tap-tap-tap the neck --you want horse to step away from you in a sideways, but forward motion. Try for one step, left crossing in front of right --then stop, pause and walk on —do it 10,000 times and you’ll have an amazing pivot. If horse tries to walk off, pull on the nose chain (gently). If you are standing where you should be, and have worked on the standing square exercise first, you won’t have the hind quarters coming at you.

Again, lots of YouTube videos —main thing to remember is Showmanship takes as much time as any upper level discipline —to be great at it, you really have to love it and work very, very hard.

[oppsfelldown]

also a couple of things - back along the rail so she cannot swing her butt out. or put 2 ground poles down and use them to back between and also to side pass over.

can the horse do a turn on the haunches under saddle? if not - same thing - start with her butt to the rail ask for one or 2 steps (front legs crossing forward instead of behind) then walk off. keep repeating until you get a half turn then start working on the back pivot foot.

Good luck - showmanship is friggn hard. but if you can master it you will be super awesome.

Maybe get in touch with a couple of the pleasure horse trainers for lessons (yes its totally a thing :lol:)

[Foxglove]

oppsfelldown has the best idea --work with a professional --but make sure he/she knows what your horse needs to be successful —I think Arab showmanship has a few customs that are different than QH —you might be penalized if your Arab is expected to stand “stretched” with head up if you place him with legs squarely under him and head level. Check before you spend time training the wrong response.

Also —you as the handler have to be as good as your horse --the best trained horse in the ring won’t win if the handler isn’t doing the same dance. I’ve seen kids try —they’d beg Granddaughter to take her “push button” Showmanship into the ring, expecting him to win the class for them —but they would slouch, walk too slowly, avoid eye-contact with the judge, and/or hold their arms and hands incorrectly --some would “cross over” at the wrong time, or stand with their weight on one leg or the other —worst was wrapping the shank around the hand (automatic DQ).

To you, the stylized posture (ramrod straight) and sharp movements may look artificial —but, to the judge, they show an exhibitor who is working hard to win ----just like a gymnast --no one really stands in real life like a gymnast before the floor exercise —or does flips and hand springs down a mat. But if you want to win at gymnastics, you learn to do so.

One aspect that is focused on (too much, I think) is the “Showmanship Outfit.” No outfit, no matter who expensive or elaborate won a Showmanship class. The right clothes may give the exhibitor confidence, but except for color and fit–judges really don’t look at bling. --the color can complement the horse’s turn out, or detract from it. Fit can detract from an otherwise neatly turned out rider (too loose or too tight or too short). I made very one of Grand daughters showmanship outfits for 10 years. None cost more than $50. GD would tell me what color, and show me a picture of what she admired from a magazine or the web. I’d do my best. Biggest arguments (there were two) was the year she wanted gray —her horse is a dun, completely unmarked. His coat looked best against jewel tones --but I made gray --but I also made a second jacket out of gray with an emerald green trim and applique --just in case --she wore both at different times --don’t know if it won or lost a placing, but I always thought the green-gray looked sharper. Second big argument (and all the show grannies who sew were in the same boat) was the girls wanted pants that fit like leggings --but they didn’t want pants that LOOKED like leggings (the dreaded panty-line!) --most of us solved it by making Showmanship pants with a yoga-pants pattern, and putting the kids in Spanx --hot days were miserable standing in the sun --but teenage girls will do about anything to look good.

In talking with many judges (I’m a chatty old lady) I found that most note color of exhibitor outfit --they, on paper or mentally, decide to watch “red outfit” or “yellow outfit” --so that they can scrutinize the performance and remember who did the pattern well ----a bay horse looks like another bay horse. So GD and I tried to find unusual colors --if EVERYONE was wearing black for showmanship —she’d switch to orange --or red —everyone wearing blue? Kid would wear black. Anything to stand out with her small, unmarked BSP. And she made good choice --except that gray outfit --yuck!

[luckymaverick]

I appreciate all the advice, thanks very much. I’ve watched many, many videos on Youtube, however watching a finished horse wasn’t super helpful because we weren’t getting those responses yet and I’m still learning what to reward and look for as efforts.

We always practice either after riding or without riding at all. I know if I can confirm the movements on the ground, it will go better under saddle.

As far as equipment, I have not used a shank. I didn’t know it was a thing, so I’m thankful to know that. We use chain shank on her Show Halter. We do have some chain shank leads I could use with her halter.

I have a great trainer, however she doesn’t have a Western background either. It’s her pony and I practice as much as I can, being an adult ammy.

Our shows are the local schooling types- flat fee to show in whatever classes you want.

Pony can turn on haunches under saddle.

[Arelle]

Go SLOW and take lots of breaks in the beginning. @Foxglove gave you a great outline for a training program - you can’t expect to do everything in one day or one week. It might take you a month just to get the walk departure correct before moving on from that.

I’m still slightly infuriated that my all-around horse Henry is a hot mess in the showmanship because I had a trainer get after him when squaring up years ago and I haven’t had the time to “undo” it. He stands there and tries to guess which foot to move instead of stopping and listening to what I’m asking. It’s maddening. :lol:

Anyway, yes a chain is typical equipment but you need to introduce it carefully. It’s really easy to introduce it incorrectly and get a horse going UP to get away from the pressure instead of dropping their head, which is the correct response. I’ve had to watch a friend of mine undo the mess someone created, which involved her getting her eyebrow split open and using a lunge line because the horse would rear up and then run backwards.

Use a fence if you need to (that’s how I started learning the showmanship), break the patterns into small pieces, and then practice until you can’t get it wrong.

Here’s a video - don’t attach the chain over the nose, attach it like they show starting at 0:40 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb62R6UgVAo

Good luck! It’s one of the best classes there is! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHP_YgvvaE [ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“center”,“data-size”:“full”,“title”:“1798819_10100484964718799_980472416_n.jpg”,“data-attachmentid”:10582327}[/ATTACH]

[luckymaverick]

Arelle- thanks for the links. You have a lovely horse.

[ASpoonfullaSplash]

I highly recommend subscribing to LSHlive on Patreon! Jeremy LaRose’s showmanship (and riding) videos have been a game changer for my mare and I, especially since both of us are inexperienced in that class. He takes horses that are barely started and demonstrates the moves in his clinic videos. I find his explanations to be much more understandable than some other trainers. It’s nice to see videos of untrained horses instead of the finished ones, too.

[sorrelfilly721]

@Arelle - I haven’t shown in showmanship since I was a child (1000 years ago), so I’m just asking out of curiosity - why do they use the chain only under the chin and not over the nose?