Training/picking good western pleasure horses

[HicksteadFan]

So, I don’t ride western but I’d like to start and learn to train western horses. Here I want to talk specifically about western pleasure and the “slow factor.” How would you train a western pleasure horse from the beginning? I ride English and am into classical dressage for all disciplines. Would you train a western horse like that? I mean start by moving them really forward, stepping under and rounding their backs while letting them stretch down onto the bit, and then gradually slowing the gaits down and lift the head? If not how would you get that back up? (The reason I want to ignore other western disciplines is because the don’t require you to be slow, you can train in classical dressage for example and keep that movement.)

And if you were looking to buy a horse what would you look for? What kinds of things would you do in the test ride to determine if the horse is well trained and moving properly?

Feel free to share any methods or things that have worked for you. There seems to be less chat in the western forum so lets share info and get a good conversation started!

[beau159]

Well maybe someone can better answer your question because when I look to buy a horse, I look for certain characteristics that tell me they will be able to run barrels.

But in general, every event is getting more and more specialized. If you want to show WP, you need to find a horse that naturally has that way of going about them. One of the biggest things I would do is see how the horse moves by themselves, without a rider. You can naturally see how smooth they move and what their gaits and headset at like, without the influence of a rider. Horses that are bred to do WP are going to do a lot of that on their own.

To correctly do WP, the horse needs to be very collected and have the back rounded, during their training. So you need to do your training from back to front. Get the hindquarters engaged, then the back rounded, and lastly you will worry about headset.

And it’s also important not to push the horse to be slower than they are capable of doing. Hence where it can be useful to have watched the horse move on their own, and see what they are capable of.

[HicksteadFan]

Makes sense. I wouldn’t buy a shetland pony to be a jumper. Same goes for western sports.

[Plumcreek]

You start with conformation. The slowness is more a factor of conformation and strength than training - the very strong lioin and rear end, and open shoulder to allow a flat leg sweep, and uphill conformation to facilitate shoulder lift. You look for one that looks like a winner on the longe line, then don’t mess them up. You also do not try and do it yourself. Go to your local big shows, sit by the warm up pen and look for anyone (good luck) riding their horses the way you would like to be seen riding yours, then ask for help.

If you are a good enough trainer to get your horses to piaffe and pirouette with a dead level neck carriage, and looped reins, you can do high level WP.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=HicksteadFan;8092819]
Makes sense. I wouldn’t buy a shetland pony to be a jumper. Same goes for western sports.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but the gaits, strength and mind needed to help a horse succeed at the whole WP thing are exceptionally specialized.

I’m on the outside of that discipline, but to me it looks like more of a “beauty contest” than the modern hunter ring or international competitive dressage ring.

I think there is a lot of sophistication in good WP training. But the bar is so high that a lot of not-quite-good-enough movers get really screwed up trying to beat the naturals… who still also get good training on top of their God-given conformation and way of going.

In other words, if you just got to, say, a TB instead of a shetlend pony because you wanted a jumper, I don’t think that level of refinement will help you do good WP. Don’t underestimate what it takes to succeed in that ring (in a correct and fair way).

[Plumcreek]

[QUOTE=mvp;8093175]

I think there is a lot of sophistication in good WP training. But the bar is so high that a lot of not-quite-good-enough movers get really screwed up trying to beat the naturals… who still also get good training on top of their God-given conformation and way of going.
QUOTE]

This

[Flash44]

For any discipline, I prefer a horse that is well proportioned, well balanced, athletic and somewhat light on it’s feet. Overall calm demeanor and no huge conformation defects. Knowing very little about Western disciplines, I picked out a quarter horse mare for my son a few years ago, and he won everything on her in 4H and at the local level. She was green broke when we got her, which is typical of everything I buy. She is very typey, and very strong through the hind end.

[HicksteadFan]

Thanks for all the conformation tips. But I wanted to talk more about the actual training and the way of going. Just because a horse has the perfect conformation doesn’t mean it will be a great WP horse under any trainer. With my horse right now I do dressage and jump. Now she has bad conformation. A long back and a roached back which makes dressage difficult. I don’t want to be perfect. I just want to be doing it properly, giving the right aids and having her in the right position (as much as she can with her faults).

Flash44 what did you do with your green horse to get her ready to show? I want to know is it comparable to dressage where you start with moving forward and long and low (and also do it to warm up and throughout all your training) and then work on collection? Is there a way you start, getting the back up and hind end engagement, or do you just start slow from the get go and try to engage the hind end from there?

And when buying a finished horse (other than looking at it from the ground) what would you use to assess the horse?

[aktill]

I’ll state flat out that I’m not a WP fan, but looking at this:
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/OneOfTheseThingsIsNotLikeTheOther.png
…do you think you can use dressage progressions to result in the horse in the bottom right corner?

[PeanutButterPony]

Look, you want a WP horse to allows hunt for the stop.

You want a dressage horse eager for the go.

the two are diametrically opposed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ne7f63lqAQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwCsJlowy2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kor8tubp7d4

let’s cant those hips to the inside…!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfCl795Sv4Y

stop and back and stop and rollback and stop and pick pick pick at em
https://youtu.be/ZsUn-DKNutw

PS- Cleve and Shane both have quite a… colorful history. And both were/are extremely successful WP trainers.

[aktill]

…if you can just dump the whole ethics thing sure, lol, at least with Cleve (don’t know the other guy).

[PeanutButterPony]

he’s a protege of Cleve’s. Apples don’t fall far from the tree. he’s been suspended for abuse from AQHA in the past.

[Flash44]

[QUOTE=HicksteadFan;8094906]
Thanks for all the conformation tips. But I wanted to talk more about the actual training and the way of going. Just because a horse has the perfect conformation doesn’t mean it will be a great WP horse under any trainer. With my horse right now I do dressage and jump. Now she has bad conformation. A long back and a roached back which makes dressage difficult. I don’t want to be perfect. I just want to be doing it properly, giving the right aids and having her in the right position (as much as she can with her faults).

Flash44 what did you do with your green horse to get her ready to show? I want to know is it comparable to dressage where you start with moving forward and long and low (and also do it to warm up and throughout all your training) and then work on collection? Is there a way you start, getting the back up and hind end engagement, or do you just start slow from the get go and try to engage the hind end from there?

And when buying a finished horse (other than looking at it from the ground) what would you use to assess the horse?[/QUOTE]

You may as well abandon your request for useful information. Feel free to pm me.

[PeanutButterPony]

You can counter with good wp training videos. The fact is that Shane and Cleve produce the desired results. Just like the big lickers do.

The fact is that wp and dressage have horses in common .and not much else.

[wonderhorseguy]

We use a lot of dressage techniques with our wp horses. The big thing to remember is they have to be able to do everything with minimal to no contact.

When looking to buy the main thing I look at is movement for an unproven horse. A finished horse will have a show record to compliment the movement. Training for me is not a major concern as I can do it myself