Training/Young Horse questions

[miminorthwest]

So I have a just turned 3 filly who has been in a full time training program for 11 months (9 under saddle). Before training she was lightly handled, I got her a bit further with some basic ground work, and she’s been training under saddle at a training barn two months after she began her groundwork training with this trainer. She’s definitely matured in that time, but during the course of training she had some foot soreness (bad farrier) but has since resolved those.

The trainer hasn’t allowed me to ride her. I take dressage lessons at another barn, and take the odd lesson at my trainers barn (where my filly lives), which is a western/performance show barn. My goal initially was to get her started under saddle and possibly compete in the HUS. I’d also eventually like to try her on dressage and see how that goes. I’m easy going, i want to see what my horse likes, and we have no definite time lines, however…

the issue I suppose is that we don’t have a plan for when I will actually ride my horse. It just seems like continue with training, indefinitely, which a lot of the trainers clients do, as they are youth who compete so they want a show-ready mount. I get it, that’s cool, but I don’t plan on keeping her in training forever.

I’ve since pulled her from training just for a month let her grow up a bit, and since there is no definitely plan on me riding her, why not take a break. I was told this is a bad idea. I’ve heard that a lot of people do this, start their young ones under saddle and then throw them out to pasture to let them grow up. Is it bad that I want her to take the full summer off to play in pasture? I’ll still lunge her multiple times a week and work on groundwork stuff with her, but I want some time to see if what really needs to happen is we find a new barn. I sense I’m a bit of a back burner, and I’m also an English rider, but I’ve been swayed from starting her in English tack. Either way, at some point I need to be the one making decisions for my own horse.

How have others approached this? Moving barns, being assertive etc. I realize you can’t put a timeline on training, she’s an individual not a mechanical horse. I’m easy going so I can see how it would be easy to take advantage of that. I guess I’m looking to hear other stories that may be similar and how you handled it.

[Where_sMyWhite]

My personal opinion… if my horse is in training and the trainer won’t let me ride it, there had better be a darn good reason why I can’t or I will find a trainer where I am included in the training program.

Of course they don’t want you riding your horse, they want the training fees to continue… IMO

[pluvinel]

This is simple.

Your horse…your rules.

[quietann]

You are probably going to bump up against very different standards in the English vs. Western riding worlds here.

When English riders talk about starting a young horse and then turning them out, they are more likely to be talking starting as in getting used to carrying a rider at the walk and maybe a little trot for short periods of time, perhaps going on a few light trail rides, maybe-maybe if you’re talking about a physically mature youngster taking it to do a walk/trot class at a show… and then turning the horse out for months with minimal ongoing work under saddle. E.g. in some places, promising 3 YO fillies are started before they are bred, and not expected to carry a rider again until after they wean the foal – which will be 16-18 months after being started.

In any case, yes, your horse, your rules. A “show” trainer probably has different immediate goals than you do.

[miminorthwest]

Thanks for the replies! I needed this confidence boost to help assert myself. Yes, she’s been in light under saddle at the walk/trot for 9 months now. I was pretty firm
initially on not wanting her even started under saddle until after she hit three and wanted just ground work and exercise. I was told that since she’s such a big filly with a lot of TB, she should be started immediately. Ok, so I agreed. I have pulled her out of training this month and said I would put her back in next month, but really my gut tells me she should get the summer off.

[merrygoround]

Unlike some people’s gut, yours is speaking truth. The trainer is looking at her pocket.

Size of the horse has nothing to do with bone maturity. In fact, I’d prefer going slower with the bigger ones.

[pluvinel]

@miminorthwest

Thanks for the replies! I needed this confidence boost to help assert myself. Yes, she’s been in light under saddle at the walk/trot for 9 months now. I was pretty firm
initially on not wanting her even started under saddle until after she hit three and wanted just ground work and exercise. I was told that since she’s such a big filly with a lot of TB, she should be started immediately. Ok, so I agreed. I have pulled her out of training this month and said I would put her back in next month, but really my gut tells me she should get the summer off.

OP…my advice of “Your Horse - Your Rules” still applies…but wait…there is more (as they say in the commercials).

IMHO her training should continue, just perhaps with decreased intensity…she should not just be thrown out in a field.

A young horse, especially in the 2-3 year old range is a malleable mind that is much more compliant than an older horse. Thus this age is the perfect age to establish a good foundation of what I call “Rules for Polite Horse Behavior.”

As the horses approach 4 & 5 years they become much more opinionated and strong-willed. So I would continue with her training, just in a more laid-back, fun way, so she remembers who her human is.

If you are bringing the horse home, or sending her to another farm, then this horse’s continuing education can continue. This work can consist of:

• Ground work
• Ground driving - Work on long lines
• Lateral work at the walk.
• Ground tying
• Walks out of the arena on a loose rein at the walk
• Trail rides, even if just walking around your paddocks
• Walking over "strange" stuff
• Playing with a tarp or other "scary stuff"
• And any other "stuff" you can think of..... including working with cows, sheep, goats, mules etc.....etc......etc.

Lots of work can be done, both on and off saddle to make the horse a good equine citizen.

[GraceLikeRain]

I think she’s more than earned a break. She won’t forget what she has learned spending a few months being turned out and getting to be a horse. Even if you gave her 6 months off, she’ll probably pick up pretty close to where she left off if she’s regularly handled and the existing ground manners are reinforced. If she doesn’t see a saddle until she’s 3.5 she will still have more miles on her than the large majority of dressage horses.

[miminorthwest]

@GraceLikeRain

I think she’s more than earned a break. She won’t forget what she has learned spending a few months being turned out and getting to be a horse. Even if you gave her 6 months off, she’ll probably pick up pretty close to where she left off if she’s regularly handled and the existing ground manners are reinforced. If she doesn’t see a saddle until she’s 3.5 she will still have more miles on her than the large majority of dressage horses.

That’s what I thought, but was told it was a bad idea because of how my horse is. Blah. She’s getting a break!

[EventingMaff]

I have a young mare that will be used mostly for dressage and trail ridingbriding dabble in eventing.

She was backed just before 3 for a few weeks, then turned out for basically a year except for the odd walk in the trails. Restarted again at 4 and worked in a “program” for 5 months. I then became pregnant and she got 6 months off (except for mental health days for me where I’d take her for a walk in the woods or around the arena).
She’s back in work now as a nearly 5 year old and honestly each time I bring her back into work she feels better. Stronger, more focus, etc.

I think time off is so important for young horses! She’ll now go into a 5 day a week program and will only get planned vaca for a month or two next winter. Otherwise she’s now in work as a dressage horse (with weekly trail rides of course!)
”‹”‹”‹”‹
eta: follow your gut, if this is a long term horse for you and you don’t have high reaching ambitions competitively, taking it slow and letting her have time to develop mentally and physically will only benefit you in the long run!
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

[GoodTimes]

If they can’t give you a good reason than I would be skeptical. I wouldn’t be too impressed if a trainer had put that much work into a horse and wouldn’t even let me ride in lessons. Follow you’re gut.
What are the “issues” with this particular horse. Did the trainer feel she needed to stay in work to be on a particular timeline? Did they feel she needed consistent work to get over some undesirable tendencies ie herdbound, nervous of other horses in the ring, etc?

It’s pretty common to give young horses breaks in their training. My gelding was backed April of his 3yo year. He got 30 days undersaddle with a pro. I rode him 3-4 days/wk over the summer. I took a job out of town so from Sept-Nov he was only ridden one day/wk and lunged once or twice/wk. I went to Florida for the winter so he got thrown in a field from Dec-Mar.
He got another lengthy 3 month break when he was 5 because I took a work placement out of province. Because of the pandemic he’s had another 8 weeks off.
I find that they don’t forget things. And some elements that they found difficult before actually become easy due to increased strength or balance that comes with age.

My coming 3yo has had inconsistent ground work in the form of some basic lunging, and a few sessions of ground driving. Because of the pandemic our timeline keeps getting pushed back. She’s only been worked with a handful of times in the last two months. However, as long as we’re w-t-c undersaddle by fall I’ll be happy. She’ll likely get 2-3 months off over the winter, and we’ll start back up in the spring.

[JenEM]

In my experience, having a horse “in training” includes some combination of training rides and lessons, so I’d really be pressing on why I wasn’t being “allowed” to ride my own horse, especially in a lesson. After nine months of under saddle training, there should be no reason a horse can’t go around with it’s owner, and if the trainer hasn’t gotten the horse to that point in nine months, it’s time to start looking for a new trainer.

Then again, nine months of full training is a LOT of training for a 3 year old. Who started under saddle training at 2.5, if I’m reading correctly? I say this as someone who has a 3YO TB, so started on the track at probably the same age as yours was, so I’ll share my game plan for this year, which is in a bit of flux because of the covid situation–the plan had been to get out and about experience in Hunter Breeding, and maybe go do a few local shows in walk/trot classes, and do a lot of trail riding in the summer. She had a very light month right after I bought her due to quarantine, basically hung out in the field with a friend and ate grass. There were a couple rides before, basically “walk quietly around the indoor” type rides. She’s had a little groundwork, learning to lunge and some in hand stuff, and walking over some poles. Now that we’re not on lockdown, she’s probably going to get one (short - ~20 min) training ride a week for a while, and I’ll ride or work with her another time or two per week, with hopefully just a lot of long walks out with a barnmate or two as we’re able to do things again. She’ll get a week off here and there, and weeks where the “training ride” will consist of something like working on trailer self-loading. If shows start up again around here, I might aim for a couple of outings to do Intro dressage tests, mostly to give her a feel for going places and doing things off the property.

Giving a quite young horse that’s been in work time off is not a bad idea. But remember that “work” doesn’t have to be intense under saddle time, and it can be handwalking out on a trail, or working on loading, or letting one figure out that being braided or clipped is an OK thing. I tend of think of that stuff as “life skills building”

[miminorthwest]

@JenEM

In my experience, having a horse “in training” includes some combination of training rides and lessons, so I’d really be pressing on why I wasn’t being “allowed” to ride my own horse, especially in a lesson. After nine months of under saddle training, there should be no reason a horse can’t go around with it’s owner, and if the trainer hasn’t gotten the horse to that point in nine months, it’s time to start looking for a new trainer.

Then again, nine months of full training is a LOT of training for a 3 year old. Who started under saddle training at 2.5, if I’m reading correctly? I say this as someone who has a 3YO TB, so started on the track at probably the same age as yours was, so I’ll share my game plan for this year, which is in a bit of flux because of the covid situation–the plan had been to get out and about experience in Hunter Breeding, and maybe go do a few local shows in walk/trot classes, and do a lot of trail riding in the summer. She had a very light month right after I bought her due to quarantine, basically hung out in the field with a friend and ate grass. There were a couple rides before, basically “walk quietly around the indoor” type rides. She’s had a little groundwork, learning to lunge and some in hand stuff, and walking over some poles. Now that we’re not on lockdown, she’s probably going to get one (short - ~20 min) training ride a week for a while, and I’ll ride or work with her another time or two per week, with hopefully just a lot of long walks out with a barnmate or two as we’re able to do things again. She’ll get a week off here and there, and weeks where the “training ride” will consist of something like working on trailer self-loading. If shows start up again around here, I might aim for a couple of outings to do Intro dressage tests, mostly to give her a feel for going places and doing things off the property.

Giving a quite young horse that’s been in work time off is not a bad idea. But remember that “work” doesn’t have to be intense under saddle time, and it can be handwalking out on a trail, or working on loading, or letting one figure out that being braided or clipped is an OK thing. I tend of think of that stuff as “life skills building”

thanks! Yeah these were kind of our goals too. We were going to show in some inhand classes this summer, but with Covid we can’t. I figured her time off from her formal training would be me and her doing lots of groundwork stuff and just walking around the property, facing some of her fears, etc. My trainer thinks this break is a bad idea because she’ll just forget everything. I dunno, I guess should would If there are a bunch of holes in her training?

[miminorthwest]

@JenEM

In my experience, having a horse “in training” includes some combination of training rides and lessons, so I’d really be pressing on why I wasn’t being “allowed” to ride my own horse, especially in a lesson. After nine months of under saddle training, there should be no reason a horse can’t go around with it’s owner, and if the trainer hasn’t gotten the horse to that point in nine months, it’s time to start looking for a new trainer.

Then again, nine months of full training is a LOT of training for a 3 year old. Who started under saddle training at 2.5, if I’m reading correctly? I say this as someone who has a 3YO TB, so started on the track at probably the same age as yours was, so I’ll share my game plan for this year, which is in a bit of flux because of the covid situation–the plan had been to get out and about experience in Hunter Breeding, and maybe go do a few local shows in walk/trot classes, and do a lot of trail riding in the summer. She had a very light month right after I bought her due to quarantine, basically hung out in the field with a friend and ate grass. There were a couple rides before, basically “walk quietly around the indoor” type rides. She’s had a little groundwork, learning to lunge and some in hand stuff, and walking over some poles. Now that we’re not on lockdown, she’s probably going to get one (short - ~20 min) training ride a week for a while, and I’ll ride or work with her another time or two per week, with hopefully just a lot of long walks out with a barnmate or two as we’re able to do things again. She’ll get a week off here and there, and weeks where the “training ride” will consist of something like working on trailer self-loading. If shows start up again around here, I might aim for a couple of outings to do Intro dressage tests, mostly to give her a feel for going places and doing things off the property.

Giving a quite young horse that’s been in work time off is not a bad idea. But remember that “work” doesn’t have to be intense under saddle time, and it can be handwalking out on a trail, or working on loading, or letting one figure out that being braided or clipped is an OK thing. I tend of think of that stuff as “life skills building”

Yes! And that’s exactly what I want to do with her this summer since there is no rush to meet some goal to show. I want to take over at least her ground work stuff and also I want to sort of challenge the trainer, like ok she’s been under saddle for 9 months and if I still am “not allowed” to ride her, then what does it matter if she’s in training or not.

[JenEM]

@miminorthwest

thanks! Yeah these were kind of our goals too. We were going to show in some inhand classes this summer, but with Covid we can’t. I figured her time off from her formal training would be me and her doing lots of groundwork stuff and just walking around the property, facing some of her fears, etc. My trainer thinks this break is a bad idea because she’ll just forget everything. I dunno, I guess should would If there are a bunch of holes in her training?

My previous mare had several long stretches of time off over the years, due to various injuries, me moving, etc. Never did I feel like she forgot anything; perhaps lost fitness and muscle, but never forgot. They’re smarter than people want to give them credit for some times, and a week or two isn’t long enough to forget something.

[demidq]

If the trainer thinks your mare will forget everything she has been taught if it is not constantly reinforced, it doesn’t reflect well on her skills! Mare is not physically or mentally mature at that age and is more likely to get sore and sour if training is pushed. Taking your time now increases the likelihood of a healthy and happy partner long term.
Is it more of a Western thing to push the youngsters hard? I know many quarter horses are started at 2 and showing by 3.

[Equkelly]

I think it sounds like you’re being taken advantage of. Out of curiosity what is your experience level with working with green horses? Also who’s idea was it for you to buy such a young horse?

I would hope that since you bought a baby you at least have some experience working with the greenies…right? If so, you should be included in her training. The horse doesn’t just get “trained” for 18 months and then all of a sudden you get to get on a perfectly show ready pony and then it’ll just stay that way forever. You should be included in the training process. Obviously in the beginning, like first 30 days, that’s different but after a certain point you’ve got to get on. I don’t believe that green riders will always mess up green horses. Maybe the horse doesn’t learn as fast as if the trainer was riding it themselves, but you being involved in the training is more valuable in the long run.

That said, if you’re still a novice rider, then I’d agree have no business on this horse. But I also would want to know who advised you to buy a baby because that person did you a huge disservice.

In any case, no, turning them out to the pasture for a few months won’t undue everything that’s been done.

[SuzieQNutter]

The only reason we can train horses is because they have such a fantastic memory. She will not forget anything.

To my English brain she has been put into work way too young, which is not good for long term soundness.

So I have no problem with you giving her a rest.

Someone getting on the horse is all you need to take over the training. Once you are able to mount safely then you should be fine.

That is presuming you are a horse trainer. As surely only a horse trainer would buy such a young horse!

If you are not a horse trainer then all I will say is know that one day your young horse will buck. Even if it is a buck of joy, so you should be able to sit a buck if you are going to ride her. You want them to not get the rider off the first time they buck.

As she has been under saddle for so long this has probably already happened so she may never buck in the future.

You really don’t know how good your trainer was as to how well you ride. She needs to get used to your different aides and legs not being the same length, etc. It would have been better to get on her after the trainer had ridden her, but that opportunity seems to have passed.

You say no problems with horse doing anything wrong. I hope you at least got to watch her being ridden.

[candyappy]

Some horses can handle a long break and come back pretty quickly to where they were when you gave them a break. Some on the other hand don’t do so well. If your young horse is calm in nature and doing well with what she has been taught, she might be easy to bring back.

It doesn’t sound like she has been over worked at all with just a few training rides a week at the walk/ trot. I have more issue with a person who technically “works for you” allowing you access to ride your horse or not.

If the filly is young and big then I would take the next months of good weather to do ground work and ride her lightly as she is used to, maybe adding some pasture/ trail experiences in the rides. Then give her the Winter off.

Ride her yourself and see what she is like and see what she likes to do best and start fresh in the Spring with a trainer who has both your best intrests at heart.

[LaurieB]

If I had paid for nine months of full training and all my horse knew how to do was walk and trot a little under saddle, I really wouldn’t feel like I’d gotten my money’s worth.

Yes, turn her out. We turn all of ours out for 4-6 weeks after the first 3-4 months of training and they come back more mature and happier for having had a break.