Trakehner Mare - Stallion Suggestions (photo added)

[Amberkez]

I had the opportunity to rehome/provide a soft landing for an ATA mare - therefore making me the happy owner of my first wb broodmare. I’ve bred numerous other foals, however this will be my first sport prospect. I ride dressage, I know a bit of the pedigrees, but not the ins and outs - so! I appeal to all of the knowledge on this board

At this time I don’t have photos available, she is in need of several hundred pounds, photos would not do justice at this point. As to video, from the scarring I assume she had a bad fence accident sometime in the past and as a result has much tendon damage, making it hard to evaluate her true gaits.

The mare: Amarelle (click for pedigree) 16.1+ Black ATA Mare - bred for eventing, a lot of blood in the mix. Good overall confirmation, very good neck & placement, solid hind leg, sufficient bone, though slightly narrow through body. Full siblings are successful event horses.

Looking to improve on: Shoulder angle/freedom - longer hip angle - loin/hip connection (might change opinion after I get her in shape)

The goal: Breeding for a filly (fingers crossed), looking for a stallion that is a sire of mares. Need improvement on trot - but will not sacrifice carrying power or canter, for flashy trot (rather than just a quality trot). Looking to produce a good solid individual who has the potential ability to go up the levels. Oldie but goodie stallions are welcome to be added to the pool.

Schiffon
Herzzauber
Silvermoon
Cadeau
King Arthur
Munchhausen

Looking to stay in the $1500 range, prefer LFG fresh semen, but not opposed to frozen semen for the right match. Will be working with a good repro vet/clinic.

Photo - Please remember she does need to gain weight, which is you can see through the middle and hind end

[Hollycatt]

She sounds a nice mare and well done you for rescuing her. Your choice of trak stallions are nice, and I would definatley stay on the trak side to produce an eventer.

I would look at the elite stallion Buddenbrock - a superb, proven trak stallion now in the US. Also the gorgeous young stallion whose owner is on here, Tattendrang. He is an eventer. I have not met either of these boys, and don’t know if they would give you what you are looking for in order to correct your mare, but since they are in the US and I think are great stallions, I thought I would pet their names for you to have a look

[TKR]

I have a great fondness for Trakehners as they are similar to Thoroughbreds in so many ways. I also have a TK mare that I adore and ride. But for me the lines are still a learning curve for me, I just know some of the lines that I have found I like alot. You could PM Maren, she is on this board. Extremely
knowledgable about all the lines and the match ups. She sounds lovely and kudos to you for the rescue. Joe Pimental owns Buddenbrock, Oskar II and several other very good stallions and is a great source of information as he knows the breed very well. He posts here as Aquafarms (I believe). Good luck!
PennyG

[rodawn]

So I assume because you ride mostly dressage you are aiming for dressage.

You could consider Harvard who is the grandson of the great Caprimond, via Hohenstein. Through his damline is the required thoroughbred blood via the spectacular stallion Cardinal xx. He lives in Canada. Semen shipping from Canada to the USA is easy (sadly the reverse is not always true). Some of Harvard’s foals have a really decent jump. He passes on a decent brain, length of leg via gaskin and forearm thus maintaining an appropriate cannon, and excellent type and movement. Very, very consistently so.

Because he’s also approved with a multiple of registries, you have some options should you get a filly and want to get her breeding approved with a different registry.

He is, however, more than your $1500 price range; however, the quality is what you pay for. If you book early, you may get a good discount.

[Blume_Farm]

I had a Buddenbrock filly born May this year out of my Hanoverian mare. She is only 5 months old so can’t tell you how she will be under saddle. However, she has a beautiful head/ neck, super leg conformation and rear limb angles. Her walk is super, trot very nice and have not seen enough of the canter to fully assess…she does more of a tear around the pasture sort of gait:) Having said that she is very good a lead changes! When I bred my mare to him I was looking to improve typiness (got that), improve hindlimb conformation (got that), maintain the super walk and canter of my mare (got the walk, I’ll see about the canter), and at least maintain a solid trot (got that) and have a good mind (thus far she has been very easy to handle and work with). Buddenbrock has many, many offspring competing and doing well so the rideability should be there (my mare was also very rideable before becoming a broodmare). His semen quality was super and Joe easy to work with. Sadly, he does not keep his website up to date with information and pictures so it is difficult to research Buddenbrock as thoroughly as some other stallions. A friend of mine at the Hannoveraner Verband is friends with the family that raised and stood Buddenbrock in Germany before his import. I spoke with her a lot about him before breeding and she had only good things to say. Happy with my choice!

[Molly_Malone]

EH Herzzauber is an excellent choice. As you don’t know the mare and she’s older, I’d stick to fresh. Other dressage stallions to consider would be Lord Locksley Pg* and Schiffon Ps*. EH Buddenbrock is out of your price range I believe, however his owner also stood Eligius and may have some input as to who might suit her best.

[shadytrake]

I second the comment about asking Maren. You have some old bloodlines that I really like. You say she needs rehabbing. I’m sure you realize that carrying a foal is extremely stressful so I would encourage you to make sure she is in great flesh before breeding. (You prob already know that)

The bottom half of her pedigree is TB and some of the TB folks could give you some info there. Also, her sire was owned by Joe Pimental so he could give you some ideas of the best crosses that he had with the stud.

Without seeing her I wouldn’t make a suggestion because I’m no expert on the lines.

[Amberkez]

Thank so much everyone ! I am going to email Joe right now, and will also PM Maren!

‘Amy’ wont be bred until she is back in a good weight, and its not that she is starved anyhow, but I like my horses to be padded! She moves out fairly well in very loose footing, I’ve been able to spend more time with her in the last few days, and at this point I feel it is mostly shoulder freedom and of course the all important collection ability.

Honestly I didn’t realize there were so many Trak stallions that I would like - we have decided to stick with fresh the first go around and perhaps venture into frozen next time.

Looking mostly at Schiffon at the moment, they have a similar type and he seems to be a solid horse with a good sire record. Plus from his videos it looks like he has a great mind! Does anyone have any personal experience with him?

Then there is Herzzauber, cant seem to find any video, will be emailing farm. But I just really like the look of him. Any comment?

As to frozen, oh gosh so many that I like!
Munchhausen (LOVE!)
Hibiskus
Silvermoon
Cadeau
King Arthur
Hofrat

For future reference any comments as to frozen quality?

Thanks so much again!!

[Hollycatt]

Here is a previous CH thread on Schiffon that may be of interest to you - http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?312157-Schiffon-trakehner-stallion

I think it is often very much an instinct thing in choosing a stallion once you have made your shortlist of which stallions will suit your mare. If any are close enough, do go to see them in person. Don’t be afraid to haggle the price a little if you see a stallion a bit outwith your price range. Its better to pay a little bit more for the stud fee and get exactly what you want than to try and economize. Many stallion owners are prepared to move a little on price in order to get a nice mare for their boy so always worth asking. Both Schiffon and Herzzauber in particular are getting on in years, so I would check their fertility is still good. With a good repro vet frozen shouldn’t be problematic if the semen is good, which opens up many options for the future, particularly once you see what your mare produces From your list I like Silvermoon. I do love a grey! Also his son Cadeau is simply beautiful. I also like King Arthur (and have used his sire EH Sixtus). All the stallions on your list I like really

Schiffon and Herzzauber are gorgeous stallions and I am sure you would get a fantastic foal using either of them Ask their owners if they have a promotional DVD they can send to you if you are having problems finding them online.

[FatCatFarm]

What Hollycatt said, Schiffon and Herzzauber are great choices. Will also throw another in the mix, Lord Locksley. I know two breeders who are over the moon with their babies by him and have repeated those breedings. I must say the resulting foals are gorgeous and he seems to be producing fillies if that matters to you.

[Donella]

I have a Herrzauber mare that I really like and have also seen Herrzauer lots as I live a short drive from where he stands. Honestly , it is easy to spot a Herrzauber as they almost always have his beautiful face and lovely neck. However, he himself is a bit weak in the loin and I have seen a few that are the same so if your mare needs help in that area I am not sure he will help her. He is also quite straight behind.

[shadytrake]

I agree with most of your assessment after seeing the photo except her neck connection seems low to me. I would want a free shoulder as well (you mentioned). Definitely needs a better hind end though with proper nutrition and a bit of work, that could change. The most glaring to me is type. I would want a more typey stallion, but that’s just my personal preference. Would like to see a bright expression, but again, that could be due to lack of groceries at the moment.

I’m going to think on it more before making a specific stallion suggestion. She looks nice and I like the older lines.

[Amberkez]

[QUOTE=shadytrake;7251140]
I agree with most of your assessment after seeing the photo except her neck connection seems low to me. I would want a free shoulder as well (you mentioned). Definitely needs a better hind end though with proper nutrition and a bit of work, that could change. The most glaring to me is type. I would want a more typey stallion, but that’s just my personal preference. Would like to see a bright expression, but again, that could be due to lack of groceries at the moment.

I’m going to think on it more before making a specific stallion suggestion. She looks nice and I like the older lines.[/QUOTE]

She is extremely mellow, she can be bright eyed and bushy tailed, though usually only at feed time ha. I agree the head is a bit plain, and if the stallion improves that as an ‘extra’ then I am all for it. The neck set is actually more ‘up’ than this photo shows, the gal holding her is used to showing AQHA and they bring the head/neck down for everything. In person, body wise, there is more type than you would expect from the photo, the blood in the pedigree is very very evident.

My two main concerns are, shoulder freedom, and literally more hind end - after watching her move in the pasture she has good thrust/carriage, especially considering the injury, however I still want more…

If you think of a cross please let me know!

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=Amberkez;7244190]
Thank so much everyone ! I am going to email Joe right now, and will also PM Maren!

‘Amy’ wont be bred until she is back in a good weight, and its not that she is starved anyhow, but I like my horses to be padded! She moves out fairly well in very loose footing, I’ve been able to spend more time with her in the last few days, and at this point I feel it is mostly shoulder freedom and of course the all important collection ability.

Honestly I didn’t realize there were so many Trak stallions that I would like - we have decided to stick with fresh the first go around and perhaps venture into frozen next time.

Looking mostly at Schiffon at the moment, they have a similar type and he seems to be a solid horse with a good sire record. Plus from his videos it looks like he has a great mind! Does anyone have any personal experience with him?

Then there is Herzzauber, cant seem to find any video, will be emailing farm. But I just really like the look of him. Any comment?

As to frozen, oh gosh so many that I like!
Munchhausen (LOVE!)
Hibiskus
Silvermoon
Cadeau
King Arthur
Hofrat

For future reference any comments as to frozen quality?

Thanks so much again!![/QUOTE]

I used to take lessons from Schiffi’s owner Lea Ann Hanson(and would happily do so again if I got the chance). I was really impressed with him, he was such a gentleman. He has a young son Veluto(sp?) who is really impressive.

[Schiffon]

Hello Amberkez,

Bless you for helping this mare, she is interesting and attractive girl. I didn’t realize a Mackensen son stood in this country.

I’m happy to provide you with any info you need on Schiffon and his son Velluto, who was approved premium a year ago. Both have excellent frames and joint angles. Loads of suspension and uphill balance. Schiffon is available fresh and is still very fertile. Velluto will be frozen due to his competition goals.

There are a couple of new videos available you might not have seen.

There is an unlabeled video of Veluto on his trainer’s channel. We have been working on editing it to a reasonable length before publicizing but here it is: http://youtu.be/-b3QJYOdDfA
It is taken at the USDF Sport Horse Development Forum in Boston in Sept which he was selected for by Scott Hassler and Ingo Pape.

The other is Neptune my 4 year old by Schiffon out doing cross country schooling but with plenty of footage of his gaits as well. http://youtu.be/rrUejGdj42c He is out of a TB mare so could lend some information about how a cross with your mare might be. Neptune also has a fancy uphill trot when free, we just haven’t encouraged that much to date, especially not on the video when he was out in the open cantering with other horses for the first time

As far as the other options on your list - I have a King Arthur daughter (imported in utero, a 1 year older half-sister to Velluto). She is very talented, built more like the dam where as Schiffon has stamped the half-sibs more, and a bit of a diva. Have you found frozen from KA? Maren had some in the US but it was lost in the CSU lab fire. The owners of Herzzauber are very nice but I’ve never seen him or any of his offspring under saddle.

Lea Ann

[shadytrake]

Guy Laroche

Okay, I’m going to go with an unusual suggestion but one that I think you should seriously consider. Links at the bottom. This stallion is a proven mare producer and has serious proven breeding value (not knocking any of the others listed, but Guy is #10 all time on the German list). He also has a great hind connection and fantastic movement. Plus his stud fee is really reasonable.

Guy Laroche

German Verband Premium stallion (E H Michelangelo x Galante elite mare) 16.3 hh.

In the most recent ('08) breeding value index for German Trakehner Verband sires of Official Studbook approved mares,Guy is #1 (over 50 daughters with high inspection marks) in the rankings of hundreds of German Trakehner sires, present and past, for siring mares with the best quality foundations.

And for overall quality (movement, conformation, general impression and all characteristics judged) Guy Laroche is 10th - among all German Trakehner stallions ever - for siring high quality approved mares. This puts Guy in a class with such well-known greats as Caprimond, Partout, Munchhausen, and many others. Furthermore, while you can hardly go wrong with outstanding legs,gaits and conformation, among sport horse owners in Germany,Guy is respected also as a sire of ATHLETIC competitors with very GOOD CHARACTER and trainability.

Guy Laroche is among the best proven sport horse sires of any breed standing at stud in North America. He was awarded the title of Premium Stallion at his inspection, placing third to his half brother Champion Kennedy and the Reserve , legendary, Sixtus.

Guy’s sire E H Michelangelo, 2006 Stallion-of-the-year, and Guy’s brother, Kennedy, are in the top 10 of all time sires of studbook approved mares.

http://www.stjohnwarmbloods.com/
http://www.ridingmagazine.com/riding_onlinemag/articles/2010_10/sunsprite.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtB5wUkpYRg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-_TIv2X3J0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UFqv8aAIF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcv8rWm252o

History - Stallions of the Present
http://trakehners-international.com/news/farm_webelsgrund1.html