Can someone tell me about this horse, particularly what he is known for passing on regarding temperament and rideability?
I have run into two of his offspring over the past few years, and both had/have a very bad rearing problem (different damlines, different owners, etc.). Is this common in his descendants? Wasn’t Abdullah (his damsire) also known for being a tough ride?
Don’t know a thing about Advocate, but I’d venture a guess that the horses were under-peopled rather than it being a genetic pre-disposition for rearing (or any other such shenanigans).
Seems to be a common trend when discussing Trakehners of any lineage…
I have known several Abdullah descendents and none of them were rearers.
(And I thought Graditz was known for passing on rideabilty?)
I have a 17 hand Abdullah grandson who is the kindest most ridable horse I have.I know Advocate is suppose to be a very gentle kind stallion. If these horses have a problem it is probably because they have been mis-handled by people. Trakehners do not suffer fools as do some of the other warmbloods. I have raised them for 25 years and have never had a problem with them.
Abdullah and Advocate are two different horses.
I had an Abdullah son that was a breeze to start and a fantastic event horse. Lovely temperament and turned into a wonderful schoolmaster. I also spent a few days and rode with Advocate during the Trak breed demo at a horsefair in the early 2000s. He was very workmanlike in an electric stadium setting. His rider did high level dressage demo amongst 7 other horses and for an encore, she jumped him over a 3’ 6" fence for kicks - in dressage tack. He never blinked.
[QUOTE=secretariat;6467423]
Abdullah and Advocate are two different horses.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but Advocate is o/o an Abdullah daughter.
I’ve known many offspring of both, and have yet to encounter problems as described. I’ve seen a few that were more “sensitive” and thus a bit more challenging to ride, but none with severe behavioral issues. It is important to remember that these are, indeed, behavioral issues in most cases.
Both of the horse you know of, must be out of GOV mares… The devil made say it !!
Joe’s right :-)))
Met Advocate for the first time in 2001 at an ATA Annual Meeting - very nice fellow. Met many of his kids over the years, not one struck me as difficult. Usually very nice Hunter-type horses, often out of TB mares, i think he just bred a lot of them.
Both of the horse you know of, must be out of GOV mares…
That was pretty uncalled for, however since you want to make digs at registries, FWIW, both horses in question were registered with ATA (and out of Trak mares).
I’d venture a guess that the horses were under-peopled rather than it being a genetic pre-disposition for rearing (or any other such shenanigans).
Seems to be a common trend when discussing Trakehners of any lineage…
Actually, I am rather fond of Trakehners and am always interested to see them in the pedigrees of good horses.
Thanks everyone else for your comments. I agree it could very well be bad handling/training that caused the problems in these two horses, but I wanted to ask anyway. I know these tendencies can sometimes be genetic (have had it mentioned several times to me by German breeders/officials/trainers - about various “lines”), so I was curious to see if anyone else knew of the tendency in this particular sire line. And, of course, it could very well be coming through the damline of these horses (different damlines on them).
I will chalk up the issue in these two horses as attributed to very sensitive horses with a strong will, who ended up with owners that didn’t know how to handle/train them. One of them is a very alpha mare who learned to bully and intimidate her previous owner (and put her in the hospital with a fractured pelvis). This mare is a very tough cookie - she has no respect for people (hard to handle on the ground, plus she charges people in her stall with pinned ears and sometimes with bared teeth.). And she stops and rears on the lunge and under saddle whenever she decides she doesn’t want to play anymore, etc. She spent a few years in a field being a bully alpha mare to the herd, and the current owner got her “for a song”. She is now trying to figure out if the mare is salvageable. We will see what happens…
As an owner and A/A rider of an Advocate gelding oo a TB mare, I will give you my personal opinion FWIW. I bought Alex (show name Avant Garde) as a yearling and I raised him with the professional help of good trainers.
He can be headstrong and does not suffer a fool rider. That being said, he is sometimes the biggest brat at home BUT HE TURNS IT ON AT SHOWS! It is amazing. He takes me around the 3’ A/As and the Adult Eq and I have a BLAST!
Last year, we tried the 3’3" A/O and I was horrible but he saved my butt. My trainers were telling me that he deserved a medal for those rounds.
This year we did 2 weeks at GulfPort instead of 1, and we took 9th and 10th in the classic against some insane competition. Our last 3 rounds were personal bests.
He just turned 11 and I have begun preparing for the possibility of his eventual retirement by starting the search for a new baby. High on the list is a coming weanling oo an Advocate mare.
As a side note, I also owned an Advocate filly oo a full TK mare and she had the sweetest disposition. I broke her to saddle myself. Sadly lost her as a four year old.
Also both Alex and Katie have/had perfect ground and washrack manners.
So there you go…personal opinion of both a gelding and mare by Advocate. Certainly rideability is very important. Alex is not perfect at home but he is worth his weight in gold at the show. I think I have a few video links from old shows. I’ll post them if I can find them.
Here’s a really old video back when I thought I wanted to do jumpers. Back before I could ask for a decent lead change.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69GSLqtIfsE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
He took care of me on several jumps. This video always makes me chuckle because the last trot jump was supposed to be a canter and he jumped it really big. What a good boy.
I opened my thumbs and broke them both on that jump. Close your fingers!
I did Advocates veterinary work for the last 6-7 years of his life. He was always well behaved for anything that I had to do with him. You definitely knew he was a stallion but he never put a foot wrong and was always respectful of those around him.
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