Trakheners: Tell Me About Them

[phippsie62]

I’m hoping there are some Trakhener breeders on this forum:

Just for fun, I typed “Trakhener horse character” into Google search and found this description: “intelligent, highly trainable and anxious to please.”

If that’s truly their tendency, why do h/j folks in my area say things like “No way!” and “Wouldn’t touch 'em with a ten-foot pole!”

And, indeed, there seem to be few for sale relative to other warmblood breeds. In a thread on another forum, Trakheners were defended by referencing some who competed in eventing at the highest levels.
I’m wondering if perhaps they are better suited to highly competent riders, not the typical fluffy amateurs.

The culture of h/j world might also be a poor fit: owner rides, trainer gets on, maybe does some training rides, working or other students may be asked to hack, And in many cases the barns don’t offer much turnout or other stimulation outside the ring.

These are all generalities and speculation on my part, but I’d really like to hear about tendencies of character in the breed.

Do they tend to be somewhat complex to ride? More than usually sensitive?

Do they tend to bond with one person?

Any insights much appreciated!

[Willesdon]

Trakheners were once also called East Prussian and were bred for cavalry use, the state stud being originally founded by Frederick the Great. A few horses were “saved” from the advancing Russian Army in the dying days of WW2, performing a great feat of endurance to reach the safety West Germany where they continued to be bred in small numbers. Because they had lost their home state, they initially lacked state support to breed them. Their numbers, as a result, have never been as large as other German state stud books. Also, as I remember, it is a closed stud book so possibly not quite as flexible about introducing new breeds and modern traits into their mix. They are used as refining blood by many stud books because they aren’t seen to be as risky as TBs. They always had a high proportion of blood and therefore are perhaps less forgiving of poor riding than some other WBs. They also aren’t a particularly fashionable breed at the moment: I don’t think there are any big name dressage or show jumper Trakhener right now.

A lot of the Trakheners that stayed in the former East Prussia then became Polish and evolved into a sport horse under the name of Wielkopolski. Which looks like a Trakhener.

[Lusoluv]

I bought a newly gelded 3 yr old Trak in the mid-90s. I was a know-it-all gal who had ridden by the seat of her pants, but really didn’t know that much. I taught my gelding how to lead, lunge and accept a saddle by myself. A couple bumps along the way, but never a buck or bolt. My first ride I had a friend holding the end of the lungeline and I walked and trotted for 15 minutes. Soon we learned to jump, did low level eventing and schooled dressage to 3rd before I eventually sold him at the age of 12. He was sired by the grey jumper Abdullah and a Blue Ribbon mare. He was black, beautiful and so forgiving. I’d get another in a heartbeat!

[beowulf]

@Willesdon

They also aren’t a particularly fashionable breed at the moment: I don’t think there are any big name dressage or show jumper Trakhener right now

I agree they’re not very fashionable, though there are some big names out there: Millenium, Dalera BB, Herzendieb, to name a few. Willesdon is correct their studbook is limited - they are a true breed, not a registry, with much smaller numbers produced each year. Despite this they are in the top of just about every english discipline.

I enjoy them. They have a reputation of being sharp. I’m not convinced they’re unsuitable for H/J, but maybe in the past when they were not as modern. My experience is it depends on the horse. I find they have all the positive attributes of TBs in terms of character. Most of the ones I’ve ridden have been honest, athletic, and kind. They’re one of my favorite breeds.

[fivestrideline]

They have a reputation here of being more difficult (read: intelligent) than whatever the “average” WB is. I’ve known 3 myself, all really nice movers - though more dressage type than hunters.

The gelding was a menace, probably had something wrong neurologically to create that movement as well as the dirty stop that caused some serious injuries. He was passed from gutsy young trainer to gutsy young trainer, and most people got about 6 months out of him before he tried to kill them. He had a bit of a mean streak and didn’t respect low fences, so looking back I imagine he actually had a neuro issue. But he was fancy so people took a chance on a fancy cheap horse.

The two mares were lovely to handle, nice movers, but hot over fences. I think they would’ve settled with one rider/trainer team and a consistent routine, but I know that’s not what they were getting.

Anyway, this is to say the Trakheners I’ve known have been very nice horses, but not dead head robots. I think they’re more common in eventing than the hunters - though hunters tend to lose their breeding and just become “warmbloods”.

[Texarkana]

I was ready to push back at the idea that there aren’t any traks at top levels of dressage or SJ at the moment… but it’s true, at least in the US.

I searched the FEI database and only found a handful of active Trakheners in the US in recent years, all of them eventers.

Sometimes I forget how much things have changed in my lifetime. Twenty years ago, it was not uncommon.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@fivestrideline

They have a reputation here of being more difficult (read: intelligent) than whatever the “average” WB is.

This. My knowledge of them is that they have a lot of ‘blood’, they are ‘hotter’ than other WB breeds. I used to ride a couple Tk/TB crosses that were labeled difficult and hot. I found them easy to ride, just needed a sensitive touch. And a lot of fun, but I enjoy the sensitive ‘triers’.
If I were ever to buy a WB, a Trak is what I’d be looking for.

[gailbyrd]

A dressage Trakhener stallion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSOOozjNbOg

The Trakhener studbook allowed Arabian stallions to be approved so they have outcrossed in the recent past. Don’t know if they still do.

[beowulf]

Here is more info about Dalera BB:
https://www.fei.org/horse/105AH62/Tsf-Dalera-Bb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl-rpncXqXM&ab_channel=Horse%26Country

TSF Dalera BB and Jessica von Bredow-Werndl at the peak of their powers as...

I love this mare. She comes by her talent honestly - her pedigree is packed with good Trakehners. She and Hermes are both by Easy Game.

Gribaldi was used quite extensively, even out of his own book. He has over 50 approved sons. The average household would know him through his son Totilas, who sired Total US who represented the Dutch team. But those who follow dressage would also know him through Painted Black, Unee BB (also ridden by JvBW), Hotline, Millennium (and his son. Morricone). These are Trakehner lines, just rebranded in various different registries.

[DawnJL]

Yes, Trakehner studbooks still allow Arabian, Anglo-Arabian, and Shagya-Arabian stallions and mares to be inspected. As with the TBs, the minimum accepable scores for these blood horses for approval are higher than the minimum scores required for Trakehner stallions and mares since the goal is to use the blood outcrosses to improve the base.

I own the only Arabian stallion approved by the ATA in the past 15 years. He was the reserve champion stallion of the 2021 ATA inspection tour. He earned his performance credentials through thev70 day stallion test and competed in dressage through Intermediare. His first Trakehner foal was born this year.
Arabians aren’t used in large numbers, but they can contribute stamina, soundness, willing temperaments, and other desirable qualities. The inspector was impressed with the amount of “bone” my stallion has and commented that he looked like a Trakehner sized down to a 15H package. I had to chuckle when he reset the jump chute for a shorter stride to “help” my stallion best demonstrate his jumping technique. I told him the stallion had always been schooled and tested in jump chutes set for standard strides, not smaller horses/ponies. He waved me off. After my stallion then interpreted the first two elements set for a shorter stride as a bounce, the inspector reset the chute back to the normal distances, and my 15h stallion was able to use his full strides to jump the elements.

[GraceLikeRain]

@DawnJL

I own the only Arabian stallion approved by the ATA in the past 15 years. He was the reserve champion stallion of the 2021 ATA inspection tour. He earned his performance credentials through thev70 day stallion test and competed in dressage through Intermediare

Would you be willing to share his name?

[beowulf]

I believe that would be Oberon’s Vanity.

[trubandloki]

@phippsie62

The culture of h/j world might also be a poor fit: owner rides, trainer gets on, maybe does some training rides, working or other students may be asked to hack, And in many cases the barns don’t offer much turnout or other stimulation outside the ring.

I feel like a breed can generally not be a good fit for a certain discipline with out the discipline having to be negative.
Not all horses are good at all things because those things they are not good at are bad.

[DawnJL]

FCF Oberons Vanity

[fivestrideline]

Yep. Not to derail - but some horses fit this model very well, and plenty of h/j programs do things differently . I could definitely wax poetic about how bad dressage programs are… but it would be untrue and unfair as a generalization.

[phippsie62]

My comments were not intended as a dig at h/j programs, but they do represent the way h/j programs work where I live. Didn’t mean to sound judgmental.

[colorfan]

My experience with ‘one’ purebred Trek. She was black, (a long time ago Trekheners were bred for slightly different purposes according to color). Overall she was easygoing, very willing and trainable. She liked me, not so much other people, however, in fairness to her she didn’t have much exposure to others.
She could be opinionated occasionally, not marsh, just once in a while decided she didn’t want to or did want to as the case may be. Could be um… energy conservative. But she could move nicely.
Brave,never spooky.
She was very very personable. She would mouth everything she could get her lips around, play tag, literally she chased me on the other side of the fence, back and forth.

At the time I had teenagers, so much going on, only time to ride/focus on one, so I found her a permanent home with someone, (who still has her). I have missed her but I absolutely loved the mare I kept. Sadly that mare developed DSLD/ESPA

[JB]

@colorfan

a long time ago Trekheners were bred for slightly different purposes according to color

Really? Any info on that?

[Willesdon]

Jessica von Bredow-Werndl’s (GER) lovely mare TSF Delera BB is a Trakhener and she must be a favourite for an individual dressage medal in Paris. Seek and ye shall find.

[DawnJL]

@JB

@colorfan

a long time ago Trekheners were bred for slightly different purposes according to color

Really? Any info on that?

Here you go: Trakehner history

Excerpt:

East Prussia therefore had two separate, but equally outstanding sources for riding horses. The military and civilian herds were mixed often, further consolidating the best possible traits. The main stud Trakehnen was a huge compound, a city of its own, covering some 15.000 acres. Apart from the main complex, sixteen “Vorwerke” (more distant barns) were home to the famous mare herds. The Trakehner horse was bred depending on its color; which may sound strange but made perfect sense once one takes into consideration that the differently colored herds also showed certain traits that were useful for the population. The black herd at Gurdzen for example consisted of mares that had the most substance and were very strong and outstanding “workers”. Famous stallions like Ararad and Jagdheld were crossed with these mares, mainly to maintain a balance to the otherwise very refined Trakehners. Even today, these “heaviers” genes can come through in the descendants of this great herd.The chestnut mares were collected at Trakehnen itself. Descending from famous thoroughbreds like Thunderclap xx , the chestnut mares were elegant, sensitive and exhibited the greatest performance potential. One of the most successful dressage lines of all times in warmblood breeding, the Hanovarian A-line, founded by the Trakehner stallion Abglanz , originated from the chestnut herd. Bay and brown mares were collected at Kalpakin. They were known for outstanding temperament and again, excellent rideability. And at Bajorgallen, the “mixed herd” was stationed. Here mares of all colors including the gray horses were bred to many of the Arabian stallions. Foundation mares like Kassette and Donna came out of that exquisite group of horses and even today, 60 years after their time are the most prominent names in the history of Trakehner horses.