Tranquilizer use at "local" shows

[chestnutmarebeware]

There are obviously systemic pain relief meds used for horses. Vets aren’t limited to local pain relievers for procedures more invasive than stitches,

It’s up to us to be our horses’ advocates and insist on pain meds. This discussion reminds me of when vets sent cats and dogs home after spays and neuters with no pain meds. Those protocols have changed recently and large-animal treatment needs too as well.

None of my horses have had joint injections, but I’ve had them in my shoulder joint and even with both a local and novacaine/lidocaine (?) added to the cortisone, the pain was terrible. Why wouldn’t it be the same for them?

[endlessclimb]

One of our dogs recently had TPLO surgery, and they sent her home with only Deramaxx (same mechanism and power of Previcoxx), nothing stronger. I was aghast, but honestly didn’t feel comfortable challenging the vet, who is one of the top orthopedic vets in the area (but clearly gets a kickback from Deramaxx, due to some of the comparisons he’s made disparaging Previcoxx over Deramaxx).

[kirbydog]

A human is less likely to kick you in the face as you’re bent over the joint, so sedation and a twitch for sure!
Although, I also had joint injections, and for one hot second I considered kicking the doc

[vxf111]

I believe the pain level varies greatly depending on what joint is injected. I have had some joints injected and barely felt the needle. I was told by my vet that he had an injection in his ankle and it was the most excruciating pain he’s ever experienced. I believe it is the same for horses. Some injections are very painful depending on the location and others less do.

[Ghazzu]

Lemme take a look through the thread.

[Ghazzu]

@OutsidersOpinion

I’d much rather see a slightly spooky, playful, whatever the case is, have .1 dorm in its system to cart Sally Sue around the children’s ponies than seeing it lunge for 20+ minutes at a local show

I’d rather see children taught to ride better at home before being expected/allowed to show, but here we are…

[Ghazzu]

@Darkwave

guess it’s because I don’t see anything unethical per se in the use of conventional tranquilizers when needed for the horse’s welfare. Have you never sedated a horse that needed stall rest or handwalking only? Or a horse for the very first ride back after a long time off?

There’s a difference between those uses and employing sedation for a horse that is going to be evaluated based on manners and way of going.
The horses in your example are not presenting in front of a judge.

[kirbydog]

shoulder injection with cortisone, not terrible, but not a tickle…knee injection with the HA gel product?? DAAAAAMMMNNN…and the 2nd one was worse than the first. The gel is going in that crunched knee with no joint space and pushing it apart. The pain is not from the needle, it is from the injection, if that makes any sense! He made me get up immediately and walk around the room til it felt better. It only took a moment, but until then, I literally was light headed from pain

[Ghazzu]

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

However, I’ve hopped on many a recuperating horse that needed a tack walk or to be slowly worked back into a program that had some ace to take the edge off.

That is not in competition, though.

[chestnutmarebeware]

@Ghazzu

@Darkwave

guess it’s because I don’t see anything unethical per se in the use of conventional tranquilizers when needed for the horse’s welfare. Have you never sedated a horse that needed stall rest or handwalking only? Or a horse for the very first ride back after a long time off?

There’s a difference between those uses and employing sedation for a horse that is going to be evaluated based on manners and way of going.
The horses in your example are not presenting in front of a judge.

And they’re on stall rest/rehab for their health and well-being. Showing a horse that a rider can’t control without chemical help is all about the rider’s ego.

[Ghazzu]

@drop_shot

If you do not feel like lunging and excessive riding should be considered cheating, but you do feel that sedation is cheating, I’d love to hear your thoughts.

I think it’s evidence of poor horsemanship, but not cheating.

[Ghazzu]

@Larksmom

Do barrel racers drug? How about saddlebreds? Arabians? Quarter horses? Endurance? Is this just something that affects hunters?

Barrel racers sometimes drug, but I have no idea what their rulebook looks like. The Saddlebred and Arabian divisions operate under USEF rules, and you can see evidence of misuse of sedative medications in the suspension reports.
(At one point when I was actively showing Arabs, there was noise from the Arab clubs that they wanted more drug testing done.)
QHs also misuse drugs in the showring.
Endurance horses have a NFS rule, pretty strictly enforced.

[Ghazzu]

@foursocks

I was replying to arlomine’s comment about the “olden days,” which were apparently better because people trained instead of drugging. My comment was exactly what yours is, which is that they drugged quite a bit!

They did indeed.

[Tackpud]

Having had a lot of joint injections, I can honestly say some aren’t bad and some have me seriously considering kicking the doctors teeth out. Shoulders and knees weren’t bad, but the CMC joint ! I just about belted him over that one. So I can imagine that coffin joint and knee/hock injections hurt the horse. Would have kicked the doc for the spinal injections a couple of times as well but hard to aim when you’re face down on the table.

[Ghazzu]

@trubandloki

I would also add that I would guess that most owners have no clue their mount has been given something. So it is not a case of the trainer telling the rider no.

I wouldn’t say “most”, but there are some. And there are more who take a “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach. Which in my book does not absolve them of responsibility.

[Ghazzu]

@Railbird

I am curious where people think all these horses can go have a useful job that doesn’t require ever having to go off property and behave themselves, and simultaneously where all these riders can go procure a horse who can safely go to a horse show with no lunging or medication. At the end of the day we are asking horses to do something in direct opposition to hundreds of years of biological instinct.

Maybe, just maybe, if everyone who sat on a horse disn’t think they deserved to be showing on the A circuit, there would be a place for less flashy “perfect” horses to go while they worked out the kinks at less expense and in competition with others in the same situation.
You know, the old one day B and C local shows.

[tabula_rashah]

I feel like everyone in this thread is focusing on fancy shows- even if they are schooling. When I think schooling shows, I think little kids in jeans on feral ponies or whatever $1000 auction horse their parents might afford or the instructor out there by herself trying to wrangle 10 beginner riders running the course of 12" x’s with every rider. You prize is a re-purposed ribbon and maybe a fun sized candy bar lol. If those ponies need a gram of bute or a drop of ace, by all means, have at it.

[chestnutmarebeware]

I don’t. If those feral ponies or $1000 auction horses are acting up at a show, then the riders need to do more work at home, not drug them. Or accept that they’re going to be out of the ribbons when the horses act up.

Showing isn’t a right to be taken at the expense of an animal who has no say in what’s done to them.

[kirbydog]

watching a QH “hunter undersaddle” class is excruciating for me. They all look crippled and artificial

[BigMama1]

[quote=“tabula_rashah, post:319, topic:778292”] If
those ponies need a gram of bute or a drop of ace, by all means, have at it.
[/quote]

I don’t think it matters if it’s a backyard show or a national championship. A horse who can’t be ridden safely without sedation has no business being entered in that show.