Tranquilizer use at "local" shows

[Renn_aissance]

Yeah, if I’m considering upper level horses, this doesn’t bother me- it’s the human equivalent of running doubles. One outing is easy cardiovascular, the second is the workout. Presuming that the horse is fit for the task, attention is paid to appropriate recovery in between, and the horse has the equivalent of a physical therapist on tap, this can be appropriate exercise. If I’ve got a horse who could reasonably be in the final four of the USET and jump 5 rounds the day after a gymnastics test, I owe it to the horse to get him that fit, and this is one way I might approach that at home as a progression over the season. If I don’t have the horse peaking at that horse show, I do the same thing there because that’s part of his fitness plan.

Having said that, elite human athletes have off seasons so they don’t break in half, and I think @Foitin was implying that not everybody we are talking about is thinking that way. Top riders absolutely do. People chasing points in the Children’s Hunters? Not everyone is thinking about exercise physiology.

[AAHunterGal]

@meupatdoes

How long do people ride for if 30-40 minutes of actually working is considered inhumane??

It’s not that a 30-40 minute workout is inhumane.

It’s that at a horse show, this horse may show for 5 days, 3 with a pro and 2 with a kid or AA. So this is 40 minutes of human lunge line + warm up + 2 jumping classes (so probably 20-25 jumps total) a day for 5 days straight, plus the warm up day which adds another day of jumping. And they do this for 40+ weeks out of the year.

Do you ride your horse for 30-40 minutes then jump it over 20+ jumps 5+ days in a row almost every week of the year?

[Paint_Party]

@Peggy

Not just poling, but we warmed up in the barn aisles. They set up these metal contraptions and hung strips of jump rail rests in them.

Ah yes, those were the days, eh?

In the barn aisles of “old Indio” (before it became Thermal) if the jumps were set too high, the palm fronds would brush against the top of your helmet.

[2bayboys]

I do have to chuckle at the assumption that “in the olden days” people were somehow better horsemen and everybody rode clean.

Why do we think drug rules came into being in the first place?

In the olden days, a little Ace was pretty common and then reserpine when Ace became against the rules. And then came dex and injectable calcium and depo and ten tubes of perfect prep.

[victoriakent]

I didn’t get to read through all of the responses yet but just a few thoughts before I go back to work:

Let’s look at why some of these horses supposedly “need” to be drugged and how do we fix the root cause? Beyond the obvious more training is needed for horse/pony and rider, a few thoughts:

• For children even at most local shows a pony is required and a horse is not allowed in things like leadline, SS, mini, etc. This really narrows down the pool of appropriately skilled mounts for children who are just starting out, and in turn, makes showing and/or finding said pony mount much more expensive. My stepdaughter could have happily shown my 15.1 OTTB in leadline her first year as my mare is saintly with her, but finding a well behaved pony I trusted enough to give her a positive experience was a more expensive venture. (Yes, I found a pony, thank goodness, but many are not so lucky.) I think opening up these sort of rules at local shows would negate the “need” some trainers find to ace up a pony. I know, I know, suitability of the mount and size, but I would rather see a child on a calm horse than a child on a drugged or frisky pony.

• Our local series recently added a division specifically for school horses. I think this is fabulous and gives kids (and adults) a great place to learn without the barrier of needing the fancy packer. I think more divisions like this would help grow the sport, while also giving those less than perfect horses a great place to show. As many have stated, most horses need a job to earn their keep. If we can be more inclusive to the types of horses and riders in the ring, I think we would see less drugging at the local levels.

• Lack of turn out. My mare would lose her ever loving MIND if she was kept in a stall for several days at a show. As such, we don’t do shows I cant trailer to and from in one day. She is happiest with 24 hour turn out. As someone else mentioned, there seems to be this expectation of horses to be robots at shows, which results in hours of lunging for some. They are herd animals after all, and I truly think normalizing more turn out before/during/after shows would take a lot of the “edge” off many horses, and hence you would see less acing or hours of lunging.

[drop_shot]

It would be fantastic to see more shows offer decent sized turnouts that can be rented for the week. It feels rare to find a venue that even offers turn out options and vast majority that do offer turn out options only provide round pens.

[Janet]

@Peggy

This is something that has always intrigued me. I’ve heard that dressage and eventing competitions don’t allow any drugs, even at the sub-FEI levels, but I’ve never found any rule that separates the non-FEI dressage and eventing competitions from any other USEF division with respect to drug rules. Which would seem to imply that drugs are allowed to the same extent as the other divisions. Finally, I have someone who can answer this for me, at least with respect to eventing. Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks.

The USEF Drugs and Medication (D&M) rules apply to all USEF shows, and all USEF disciplines (with one exception, the Arabian discipline has additional drug rules against steroids, GR 410.7.a). (The USEF D&M rules apply to the lower (Training and below) levels of Eventing (which are USEF licensed but not USEF recognized) at USEA/USEF Horse Trials.) It does not matter if the discipline is ALSO an FEI discipline.

BUT, if it is an actual FEI competition the FEI drug rules (which are stricter) apply… That includes all the CCI, CSI, CDI. etc. competitions

[dags]

@victoriakent

For children even at most local shows a pony is required and a horse is not allowed in things like leadline, SS, mini, etc

This is not the case? Short Stirrup is restricted by rider age. Never seen leadline require ponies. Not sure what mini is?

[libgrrl]

Sounds like you need to talk to the officers of your local show series. Our local shows do allow horses in leadline.

[Foitin]

Yeah, the context was hunters showing a ton at a very high level, that’s what I meant by top hunters. I think what I said is accurate, for that particular context. Congrats on your workout routine, sounds awesome!

[Peggy]

Thanks. Got it. What about above training but not FEI? Or is that even a thing? It was back in the day.

[victoriakent]

I am sure since we are discussing local shows, this varies from region to region. Our shows follow Maryland Horse Show Association rules which state for short stirrup “Open to ponies ridden by a junior exhibitor…” etc. The point is, by opening up some class restrictions for children we may see more access within the sport, and less pressure for these trainers to find perfect tiny mounts.

[Janet]

@victoriakent

Our local series recently added a division specifically for school horses. I think this is fabulous and gives kids (and adults) a great place to learn without the barrier of needing the fancy packer. I think more divisions like this would help grow the sport, while also giving those less than perfect horses a great place to show.

This is EXACTLY how/why the Children’s Hunter division started. But it didn’t stay that way.

[Peggy]

I’ve never seen a pony required for SS, walk-trot, or leadline. Friends have used their jumpers for leadline. (*)

My horse is on 24/7 turnout at home and was not a fan of living in a stall at home, but keeps his brain very nicely stalled at a show, even for two weeks. I’m good about getting him out for handwalks, etc. Every horse is different and I realize you may have tried a multi-day show. But, if you haven’t, and your choice of verb indicates prediction as opposed to past results, it might be worth a try.

(*) edited to add that we were responding at the same time and your local rules do for SS.

[Janet]

@Peggy

Thanks. Got it. What about above training but not FEI? Or is that even a thing? It was back in the day.

Yes, those (Modified, Preliminary, Intermediate, Advanced) are fully USEF recognized, and the USEF D&M rules apply

[Janet]

@Peggy

I’ve never seen a pony required for SS, walk-trot, or leadline. Friends have used their jumpers for leadline.

It is NOT a USEF rule, but many SHOWS restrict leadline to ponies. For instance, I just checked the Upperville prize list, which says that only ponies are allowed in leadline and walk-trot classes.

[dags]

@Janet

It is NOT a USEF rule, but many SHOWS restrict leadline to ponies. For instance, I just checked the Upperville prize list, which says that only ponies are allowed in leadline and walk-trot classes.

Huh. Is the logic anything other than a desire to have a ring full of cute ponies for the crowd? Or are ponies a long-buried leadline tradition?

[victoriakent]

Yes every horse is different, but the point is, if we can make LOCAL shows more accessible to your average horse owner, or in this specific example, the horse who NEEDS turn out, we will see less lunging for hours or drugging. The point of my post is what can we as a sport due to reduce the “need” some find for drugging. I don’t agree with drugging, but if we can tackle the “why” behind why some people are doing it, we can reduce it some.

[victoriakent]

I suppose traditionally it goes to “suitability of the mount.” Tiny human = tiny mount. I led my tiny friend at Upperville this year in leadline and she took 3rd, and even if the class did allow horses there is no chance we would have placed with a horse. But at local shows, I think opening this up more would allow more kids to be introduced to the sport and put less pressure on finding miniature mounts =)

[endlessclimb]

People are drugging because they can’t handle even a foot wrong without losing their minds.

The problem is, they’ve chosen a sport that involves animals, so there is no “control”, only “cooperation.”

We drug because telling the owner/rider “no” is hard. So how do we make telling the owner/rider “no” easier?