You do not know why every person does what they do and your broad statements of how inept every other person riding is are not making your point too believable.
I would also add that I would guess that most owners have no clue their mount has been given something. So it is not a case of the trainer telling the rider no.
Right, because the trainer didn’t tell the owner “No, Suzie, you’re not ready to handle Goober at a show yet, let me do a couple warm up classes and see where we’re at.”
It all revolves around the word “no.”
And… anyone who dares make a case for drugging an animal for an optional activity - showing - is the lowest of the low in my book. They ARE inept, either as a rider or a trainer.
Or the trainer can be telling Suzie that she should be showing and Suzie does not know any differently that she is not ready and she does not know that Dobbin is getting a cocktail. See, it does not revolve all around the word no.
Well, yeah. Obviously Suzie is not at fault there. Hence all my targeting being on the trainers, and riders/owners after a ribbon when they know they can’t ride their way out of a paper bag.
Hence me saying that your absolute statements about riders are wrong.
There are lots of ways people end up there. Not all of them because some rider can not handle a foot being wrong.
You made broad insulting comments about the riding skills of everyone else.
We are talking about known use of ace at a show. That’s the whole point of the thread.
The riders come into it because of their skill level, or lack thereof.
Then the trainers come into it, because they’re incapable of telling the truth to their clients “youre not ready”, or saying “listen, Pookie might spook at the judges stand and you’re going to have to deal with that”.
And then other horseman come along, enabling the whole thing trying to make horseback SHOWING, not just riding, inclusive to everyone, even the people who put zero effort in and even the people who have crippling fear if the animal carting their ass around acts like - an animal.
I have no patience for ANY of it.
It goes in this order: find an ethical trainer --> get a suitable horse --> learn to RIDE well enough, understanding that horses are animals with opinions and feelings --> show.
You don’t get to skip any part of that, for any reason.
I am curious where people think all these horses can go have a useful job that doesn’t require ever having to go off property and behave themselves, and simultaneously where all these riders can go procure a horse who can safely go to a horse show with no lunging or medication. At the end of the day we are asking horses to do something in direct opposition to hundreds of years of biological instinct.
Interestingly I found a book from the 1850s which describes a training method endeavoring to save “the young horse from the ruin associated with the use of the longe and other substitutes for skill in the riding school” so it seems this has been an ongoing issue where the author suggests the vet administer “a dose of physic” and ample use of draw reins, just as a counterpoint to anyone suggesting this was a modern issue: The training of cavalry remount horses (upenn.edu)
This is a great point. I did this exact thing at a local rated show a few years ago. Was grooming and teaching a pony kid. The trainer did not charge for trailering, I cleaned my own stall….it cost $600.
My horse was drug tested last summer, it seems to happen fairly robustly here. Maybe because I am within a few hours’ drive of HQ/the lab? Fairly easy day trip for the testers. Lovely people. They said they rarely get a positive at dressage shows.
Anyway, I wouldn’t ride, much less show, a horse on ace. I do have ace on hand, but my bottle isn’t even open.
I do think there is a place for local shows and the schoolie who is more comfortable on Equioxx or Bute as they age. God knows I need Advil on the regular! Not sure if that is “drugging them,” but we have 3 late-teens, early-20s horses in the barn on Equioxx. It is good that they can stay active, they’d probably need retired. It has a relatively quick withdrawal time, so they can be taken off as needed for shows. I don’t think I would feel bad keeping them on for local schooling shows, or feel like it is cheating (as long as it wasn’t prohibited by the rules.)
As others have noted, the “good old days” weren’t that great. Not to mention that even now there are a LOT of horses at rated shows that have been nerved. (I was told this by Kent Allen himself—many GP jumpers, etc.) nobody talks about it, but that’s a serious concern.
Maybe that is why they use calming drugs?
I see so many riders struggling with riding issues which are 100% rooted in lack of fitness. The catch-22 is that for most of them, the job that lets them afford the horses doesn’t allow riding 6 days a week or a ton of time for cross-training. But I do wish trainers would get more serious about requiring show riders commit to SOME kind of fitness routine. A couple fitness classes per week or a quick run or workout at home every day can move the needle and make riding safer and more fun for everyone. And if you can’t carve out 90 min a week for something like that, no problem… but then you stay in the 2’6 ring on the dead broke packer, or you don’t show, or whatever.
So I’m totally not a H/J rider anymore but I do still attend a few local schooling shows- pretty much the only rules are wear a helmet and heeled shoes. It’s the most basic of basic shows but it’s also the perfect place to take greenies of any discipline (heck I take my babies and ride in my endurance tack) or first time show riders, esp kids. I have zero problem if a horse at a show like this needs a little help to make things a good experience for the horse or the rider.
Y’all don’t know half the fun of being made to ride aced fox hunters out with one of the biggest and tougher hunts out there. Like 3’6" jumps are the norm and we were usually out around 2+ hours.
And these were not “Normal” Ace levels. No no. 5cc in the vein. Or things like that. Side note, per my vets anything beyond 2.5cc doesn’t really increase much, so don’t be too worried about how much that was.
I will happily take a greenie to a schooling show drug free if it can handle it, but like others, we’re hacking. We’re standing around and we’re maybe doing some work in a warm up arena. We are not showing until the horse, sober, can do it. If they need chemical assistance, I take it to the show grounds when show is ending and stand with it on a lunge line. And walk it around. As much and as many times as it needs.
That’s what actual long road looking, non-cheating horsemen do.
Em
YES. So many people these days, across all disciplines, want to be “riders” but seem to believe that all they need to do is learn some book knowledge and show up for some lessons. They don’t seem to realize that if you want to take your riding beyond the most basic level, you have to be a legitimate athlete.
I get that it can be hard to find time for the gym on top of barn time and working a full-time job, but it’s still no excuse for being stiff and unbalanced and completely lacking in core strength like I see in way too many amateur riders. To that I say: Get off the “equine biomechanics” websites and instead take 20 minutes a few times a week and do some push-ups or squats or work out with some dumbbells in your living room. Ride when you’re not having a lesson and spend significant amounts of time in the trot and canter without taking a walk break every 3 minutes. Take some rides outside the ring and trot and canter up and down some hills. Take the stairs when you’re at work.
Becoming an athlete won’t magically mean you can ride well or won’t be afraid, but it will make it way easier to do the bare minimum and learn to at least stay out of the horse’s way … and stick with him during those moments he remembers he’s a horse, not a Disney world ride, and decides to spook or play a bit.
This is unfortunately very true.
I had a hot, good jumping horse in the olden days and was offered a lot of money for her by a hunter trainer. When I asked how the trainer planned to turn her into a hunter, she said, “We have drugs for that.”
At least she was honest. I kept the horse.
Plus I think a lot of people haven’t connected the dots that part of their fear is their lack of fitness. Most people are not consciously thinking, “I’m not strong so it’s way more likely that I will fall off/get jumped out of the tack/etc,” but their body and nervous system 100% knows that is the case.
“Post two, sit one, with your hands on your hips, at a brisk trot for two laps around the arena”.
This test would eliminate a lot of people…
Honestly, I am worried about the future of our sport.
I see too many young riders who are not getting introduced to this as a sport. It’s more like a fun-time hobby, where you get to be with horses, wear cool clothes, go to shows, win ribbons, and get cool photos for IG/FB/–.
I hope like crazy that everyone here has different experiences, and I am way out there.
I grew up in a part of the country where saddle seat riding was the big thing - what you did as a girl if your family had $. It was a lot of dress up, show, travel, and have fun. No one learned a lot about riding - that was not part of the experience, in general.
All these riders quit when they aged out of junior classes, and many much earlier. There wasn’t enough to make this continue to be interesting. The system self-destructed and the whole scene died out.
I’m nervous that ace, etc, is part of the “have fun, look cute, …” direction. I get the tough situation: clients want to show, and trainers go to shows to make $, and so clients need to show, since the business model is built on showing. That’s reality, unfortunately. And it’s reality that it is harder for riders to learn riding skills, esp when trainers are at shows supporting that showing-is-the-goal model. And there we are. No idea how to arrest this or if anyone wants to.
The fun times and memories that I cherish the most are a combination of learning to ride that tough combination/trot fence/counter canter at home, and picking up that win because I’d practiced that tough combination/…/… at home, knew I could do it, and did. I’d have had a whole different experience with riding if it was about getting a little bit of skill and then spending weekends at --I, --II, --III, shows all the time.
Yes, ma/am!
A big drag hunt in my area is known for coming in promptly at the end of 2 hours… when the Ace wears off everyone, LOL. But hey, those people have fun and it seems safe enough. In a few respects, I don’t think these guys are tippy-top horsemen, but Acing their field hunters to go do their job each weekend isn’t something I’d complain about.
It takes TIME to teach a horse how to be rideable in any situation. And, actually, that is the point of a nice, winning show horse. In fact, the relaxation seen in a good hunter is supposed to be the product of his understanding his job enough that he can listen to the smallest of aids and answer those.
THIS little nugget of the show hunter division is the kind of horsemanship that I came for. It’s the reason I still like the division, no matter how priced out I am or how artificial the modern version has become. I have ridden hunters who were quiet because they were educated and even made up my own who was also super-reliable and broke enough to do new jobs because he had been taught that no one would ask him to do anything where he couldn’t figure out how to earn a soft ride.
And I take that value-- a horse who understands his job so well that he can be chill and attentive to his rider anywhere, anytime-- to all of my riding. My hot dressage mare even benefits from my holding these goals of her understanding, her answering the smallest possible version of an aid, her being rideable in any situation. I know this takes time. Unlike too many others in dressage world around me, I value her relaxation as a sign that she feels secure in her work. I want to make this seem worthwhile to her.
I learned all that as a kid learning to ride and make up show hunters. To this day, it stands me in good stead as I teach horses to do all sorts of things. But you have to value and enjoy the training process. The only thing that really worries me about people using chemical short cuts is that they stop thinking that they can/should train a horse well enough that they get him to understand his job and feel secure in it. It should matter to people how their beloved, expensive animals feel.
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