I have been an instructor for 18 years, working out of various barns, and about 5 years or so ago, I started teaching on a part-time basis, traveling to people who keep their horses at home or don’t have a resident trainer at their barn to work with, instead of working out of one particular barn. I’ve lately started expanding my client base, and have run into a new situation. A couple of the barns that I have new clients at charge a fee per student for a trainer to come in and teach. One barn charges a flat rate for all lessons, no matter who the instructor is, and then pays me a percentage of that, and another charges $15 for outside instructors. The second barn does have their own instructors. I have never run into this before, either as an instructor or a student. Is it a new thing, or have I just been lucky? What do people think of this? Although I have been careful to keep my own mouth shut, several people at the first barn are aware that the BO takes a cut, and have expressed resentment at having to pay extra to bring a trainer in, when they advertise an open trainer policy. I think I may be about to be caught in the middle of an awkward situation, and would like to hear some outside opinions. From my point of view, it’s not an ideal situation; I make less money for these lessons than I do in other places, although on the other hand, I’m not yet at a point where I can start turning away any client. It also raises the question of what to charge my student at the second barn (she is moving her horse there soon from another facility). Do I just charge her my regular rate and eat the difference, or do I charge her for the fee as well, effectively raising my rate by $15?
Help! Any and all opinions and points to consider welcome!
I keep my horse at a barn with an open trainer policy, but have heard of the scenario you’re encountering. In my opinion, the person boarding at the facility should pay the additional fee, and if they object, should work it out with the barn owner/ manager. You are just providing a service and you have a set fee. You don’t have any particular affiliation or contractual/ professional relationship with the barns from what I can see in your post. I don’t think you should be responsible for keeping track of many different polices, and I certainly don’t think you should have to eat the extra cost.
Your fee is your fee. The student pays the barn fee (like they would a haul in charge). They can bring fee complaints to the person charging the fee.
[QUOTE=M. Owen;7441447]
I keep my horse at a barn with an open trainer policy, but have heard of the scenario you’re encountering. In my opinion, the person boarding at the facility should pay the additional fee, and if they object, should work it out with the barn owner/ manager. You are just providing a service and you have a set fee. You don’t have any particular affiliation or contractual/ professional relationship with the barns from what I can see in your post. I don’t think you should be responsible for keeping track of many different polices, and I certainly don’t think you should have to eat the extra cost.[/QUOTE]
That’s about right.
And yes, ring fees charged for lessons from outside trainers have been around for awhile. Technically, they are the boarder’s problem. OP, you probably don’t make enough in terms of yearly salary to be eating the costs. No judgment there, just an appreciation of the fact that you have a physically hard, risky, low-paying job while your clients don’t and have enough discretionary income to afford horses and lessons. Don’t screw these customers of yours, but don’t eat ramen to help them out of their problem with their BO either.
[QUOTE=arlosmine;7441452]
Your fee is your fee. The student pays the barn fee (like they would a haul in charge). They can bring fee complaints to the person charging the fee.[/QUOTE]
This. That is what my trainer does when she teaches at other barns. She has her normal fee, a traveling fee (only about 5$ normally, to cover her gas) and any barn fee she has to pay is added on and paid by the client.
I charge a $5 per student fee to the trainer coming in to teach my boarder. I feel like it should come from the instructor, rather than the student/boarder. I understand that that the fee is passed on. Look at it this way. You are providing a service to the student, but you are not going to their home. You are coming to my home, essentially, and setting up shop on my property, in my ring, that you have no financial responsibility for. If you were to go to a spa, and decide to offer pedicures inside their business, that would obviously never fly. It makes sense to me that the person who owns the facility should get a cut when anyone is making money off something happening on the farm. This is an extreme, but 100% true example, my old BM body clipped professionally, and a big hunter barn in the area charged her a small fee for “electricity” every time she body clipped a horse at that barn.
[QUOTE=arlosmine;7441452]
Your fee is your fee. The student pays the barn fee (like they would a haul in charge). They can bring fee complaints to the person charging the fee.[/QUOTE]
Another chime in agreement that the student would be responsible for the fee. I board at a facility without a resident trainer and while they don’t charge any fees for bringing in an outside trainer, I would have no issue with paying a “penalty” fee for bringing in a trainer.
The student should talk to the BO if they feel the fee is unfairly high. It’s not as though the BO is charging for only you specifically to come in and train - it’s a universal outside trainer fee, therefore, the student is responsible for negoiating with the BO over it.
As a student, I have always paid the instructor’s base fee + any additional fees (ring fee, etc).
However, one of the situations the OP mentions is not that simple.
I have been in a situation where the barn insisted all instructors would charge $X for a lesson, payable to the barn, and they would then pay out to the instructors. This sounds like what the first barn is doing.
In this situation, it’s not about an extra fee–it’s about a barn dictating the total fee. As a student, I am entirely uncomfortable with negotiating my instructor’s fees with the barn owner. Nor do I think an instructor should be comfortable sitting by, waiting to see what the students and barn owner decide they are worth paying. I’m also not sure what sort of employee/contractor situation this puts the barn owner and instructor into–it seems like there may be legal ramifications if the barn is setting fees and collecting the money that there would not be if the instructor were doing it on their own.
OP’s Barn #2 is pretty straightforward.
Barn #1, not so much.
ETA: the situation I was in that was similar to Barn #1 ended with the instructor eventually not teaching at that barn at all. There just was no workable solution that kept everyone happy. There was a mass exodus, some students to another barn the instructor taught at and some to other barns in the area. The instructor lost a few clients who did not want to move.
I understand the point of view that a barn manager should make some money from any activities that are happening on her property, and I think it is a valid point. I think though, that the unhappy boarders see it as more similiar to renting an apartment. They are already paying for the use of the apartment and amenities, and if they choose to invite someone over to give them a cooking lesson, they shouldn’t have to pay more. In their view, they are being charged twice for the same thing. I can see both sides of that argument.
In my personal experience, most barn owners only take a cut of the lessons from trainers that are considered “resident.” In that situation, though, the trainer benefits as well, since a barn with a resident trainer will not allow a competitor to teach at that barn, sends lesson requests only to that person, will include the trainer in any advertising, frequently covers that instructor with their insurance, and often provides horses and equipment for those lessons. And I understand a barn that does have its own trainers charging a small fee; they want to keep their boarders happy by allowing their trainer of choice in, but also protect their own. In the barn that has a problem brewing, however, the part that the owner takes is fairly large; if I were to charge my regular amount on top of that, the lessons would be exorbitant. I took the deal because some money is better than none, and as another poster said, this is not a high-paying job!:winkgrin: My main point I guess, is that I have to do what I have to do to stay in business, and if this is the way things are going, I will just have to find a way to deal with it. Since I have a feeling that I’m about to get dragged into an argument between boarders and owner, I appreciate all the comments. That will give me some talking points and suggestions to make to try to keep things peaceful! Also thanks for the comments about my pricing for lessons at the second, new barn. I knew how I felt about it, but wanted to get some opinions from the other side so I can be fair as possible to my student.
Don’t engage or let yourself get put in the middle. Your fee for the lesson is $x. Anything they have to pay to the barn is paid by them - it does not come out of your fee.
As a boarder, I would not want to pay a ring fee for a lesson if the barn didn’t have resident trainers. I’m already paying for use of the ring via my board check, why do I have to pay extra on certain days when I have someone stand in the middle of it? Now if the barn offered lessons as and I elected to use a different trainer, I can understand paying a fee. But if the service isn’t offered, I shouldn’t be punished for finding it myself.
I don’t think a ring fee should be charged when a boarder is using a resident trainer or a recommended one. I could see doing so for a ship-in student, because they would be creating wear and tear on the facility for which they aren’t paying for through board.
Charging ring fees to boarders I think is only warranted at larger barns where those boarders are trying to bring in an outside trainer. That could help keep the total number of outside trainers down creating (hopefully) a less chaotic environment.
When small barns charge ring fees for everybody, it makes me think they want to keep the total number of lessons down for whatever reason or that they are desperate to charge as many fees as they can to increase their income.
OP, I understand that you say you aren’t in a positive to turn away teaching opportunities, but I really feel for you. At some point it should be about the trainers and the students, not about the barn owners. Too many barn owners make up ridiculous rules to increase income and they expect people to put up with it. I wish there were a way you could address it easily.
I think it is ridiculous for a barn to charge the same rate for all trainers, even those coming in from outside. Most barns I’ve ever boarded at have a tiered pricing scale depending on whether you ride with the head trainer or one of the assistants. the outside people (where allowed) charge their own rate whatever it is.
[QUOTE=mpsbarnmanager;7441620]
I charge a $5 per student fee to the trainer coming in to teach my boarder. I feel like it should come from the instructor, rather than the student/boarder. I understand that that the fee is passed on. Look at it this way. You are providing a service to the student, but you are not going to their home. You are coming to my home, essentially, and setting up shop on my property, in my ring, that you have no financial responsibility for. If you were to go to a spa, and decide to offer pedicures inside their business, that would obviously never fly. It makes sense to me that the person who owns the facility should get a cut when anyone is making money off something happening on the farm. This is an extreme, but 100% true example, my old BM body clipped professionally, and a big hunter barn in the area charged her a small fee for “electricity” every time she body clipped a horse at that barn.[/QUOTE]
Sorry! I feel that the student, your boarder has paid, as part of his/her board, for the the use of the arena. However, if your insurance company charges extra, that should be passed on. It is up to the trainer and student as to which one pays.
[QUOTE=joiedevie99;7442140]
Don’t engage or let yourself get put in the middle. Your fee for the lesson is $x. Anything they have to pay to the barn is paid by them - it does not come out of your fee.[/QUOTE]
Yes, keep everything professional and clean with your client and the BO.
And BOs who want to charge trainers because they are using your infrastructure in order to make money. Yes, that’s fair and right. As someone who teaches lessons, I don’t have the money for a farm’s mortgage, nor do I want to buy a tractor and footing and all that I enjoy if I come to your place.
But remember that trainers add value to your barn. They help keep HOs-- especially newbies-- on the up-and-up with standards of care. You just might benefit from a trainer helping convince your boarder to feed better grain, get the farrier out more often or launder her blankets before they reek.
Folks who can/want to pay for lessons also typically aren’t the shoe-string types. Chances are that a HO who as enough money and interest to put into lessons also has enough money and involvement in your horse to pay her bills on time.
Last but not least, a trainer keeps the rider and horse safe, if nothing else. Consider the HO that makes you cringe when you see her on her horse. If she has a pro helping her, there’s a better chance that no one will get hurt on your place.
Trainers do have their uses, even to BOs who don’t get cash from them.
I agree with the poster above. I have always permitted my boarders to use whatever trainers they like at my farm (providing they have the necessary insurance) at no additional cost. I am not a trainer myself however, that would of course make the difference here. My boarders are very happy they have a choice of whom they wish bring in as so many of the bigger farms around my area insist you use the resident trainer whom they may or may not like. This is a win/win situation for everyone. Happy boarders make for a happy barn owner 
Like it or not, these fees are becoming more commonplace. From a practical standpoint, it doesn’t make sense for you alienate a BO. After all, they are under no obligation to allow you to set up shop on their premises whether a fee is paid or not. I think you just need to make up your mind as to what kind of a policy you want to have about this type of scenario and then stick to it.
Many instructors do add the facility fee on top of what the student has to pay, but then often traveling instructors have a lower lesson fee to begin with because they aren’t supporting and maintaining a facility, so I think it comes out in the wash sometimes. In other situations, a traveling instructor might be charging roughly equivalent lesson fees due to factoring in gas and travel time.
You just need to think about what is fair for you–perhaps covering $5 or $10 of any facility fee and having the boarder to pay the rest would be reasonable.
I would definitely avoid staying out of any debate between the boarder and the BO–that is their business and your business won’t be helped by engaging in this type of conflict.
I will say that as a BO although I generally welcome outside trainers, it can in some cases be a mixed bag. I have found the biggest deterrent is that most part-time traveling trainers are not adequately insured, and no reasonable farm owner would allow an outside trainer to teach on their property under those circumstances. The other issue is that while most outside trainers are very respectful of the facility and its rules, others occasionally are not. This could be something like moving all the jumps around in a weird way and not putting them back, not being considerate of other boarders using the ring, or hopping on the student’s horse to fix a problem without wearing a helmet. In other words, having outside instructors come to teach can potentially require some supervision and effort on the part of the facility owner.
the IRS standard mileage rate for 2019 is 58 cents per mile for business use
I have reported post #17 as a possible Spam post given broad problems yesterday
