Treated for Lyme, now maybe EPM? Or something else?

[jcc813]

Just finished 30 days on doxy for positive chronic Lyme and this past week some weird lameness stuff came up and now I’m worried we might also be dealing with EPM…or maybe it’s just unresolved Lyme? Or maybe something else??

Here’s video from yesterday where he’s showing bilateral lameness at points throughout: https://youtu.be/dixCS6ZRasM.

We’ve been dealing with off/on lameness for a few years now but MRI and rads did show arthritis and stuff in hocks and RF coffin so we were treating for that. Usually on lunge it’s pretty clear he’s off on a specific leg or it swaps between diagonals.

Earlier in the week husband found a rock wedged in his LH frog that bled a little when he pulled it out. Ttrainer lunged next day and said he was head bobbing lame on RF. We assumed it was soreness from LH and just showing up as compensation on diagonal front.

But then we lunged yesterday and got this odd switching among all four w periods where he looks great.

No heat or pulses anywhere.

When we drew blood for Lyme vet did a neuro tail pull exam and he seemed fine.

We tested bc he was showing some extra spookiness and doing some pawing that seemed out of norm.

No issues w muscle atrophy. He has always been sensitive to grooming especially more on one side. He doesn’t like getting his feet picked especially the hind. Recently he tends to lift or kick out his RH if you try to pick up the L.

Had hocks injected 4 weeks ago. Was scoped a couple years ago when all this was going on and no ulcers.

I’m at a loss for what to do…another round on a different antibiotic? Should we just try treating for EPM and not bother w testing?

Have sunk a LOT of money and still doesn’t seem like we’ve gotten to the bottom of things but also it seems like a lot of different things keep popping up.

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[jherold]

Do you have my mare? The sensitivity to grooming with one side being worse than the other was her first epm symptom. Also some hock soreness. Tightrope with the right hind and general grumpyness. Treated for epm using Pathogenes protocol. Had to do it 3 times. The third time we went twice as long with both oragen and lavamasol. That was 2021 and 2022. Fall of 2022 treated for ulcers. She got better after epm treatment but never completely back to herself until spring 2024 when we tested for Lyme and Anaplasmosis. Positive for both. Treated with iv antibiotics since according to my vet iv worked better than oral. Also saw huge improvement from adding Nano-E vitamin e supplement.

She still has some residual sensitivity to being saddled and grooming with a light touch annoys her. We figure she has some residual hypersensitive nerve endings so I accommodate her as best I can as long as she doesn’t escalate to be dangerous. But she’s sound and happy to work and solicits attention.

[jherold]

At least you have a gelding. Vets almost always attribute “grumpyness” to just being a mare instead of a symptom of something else

[Simkie]

It’s worth a shot to test for EPM. I had one recently that was just NQR, and when he titered high for Lyme, we figured that was it. But he didn’t improve after 6 weeks of mino. His EPM titer wasn’t even that notable, but 4 weeks of ponazuril resolved his weirdness.

I wouldn’t treat for EPM without testing first, though.

[jcc813]

Ha! Now that you mention it, we’ve been noticing sores on his hocks too which weren’t a thing w him until maybe sometime this last year?

He’s been on natural vitamin e gel caps for a couple years now. We had tested and he was low. Then we retested and it was in normal range so confirmed the capsules were working. We doubled to 4000 IUs when we started doxy.

Did you do the EPM test?

[jcc813]

curious why you wouldn’t treat without testing?

I’ve heard blood test isn’t as clear cut as with Lyme and I’m not going to do the spinal tap.

[jcc813]

Any idea why sore hocks might be a symptom?

[Simkie]

@jcc813

curious why you wouldn’t treat without testing?

Because if there’s no exposure there’s no reason to treat. Because you want a baseline before treating. Because most vets won’t consider prescribing the meds without a reason. Because a month is a long time to be shooting in the dark, especially with something that isn’t a textbook presentation of the disease.

Bloodwork may not be definitive, but a spinal tap is no longer necessary. Pull blood, see what you’ve got titer wise, and go from there.

[jherold]

We did the Pathogenes blood test for epm prior to treating.

Took her to Rood and Riddle because she was just sore all over and thought she night need back xrays. She blocked sound at the hock so they injected her hocks. Said she wasn’t neurological so no epm and she was grumpy because she was a mare. I think we tested and treated for epm after Rood and Riddle.

She got better but was still not quite right and we had to sedate her for standard chiropractic or she’d kick. I ended up taking her to a vet up in Michigan who combines western and eastern/shamanism medicine. He diagnosed her ulcers with accupuncture sensitivity. He took spinal xrays to rule out kissing spines and then did chiropractic and body work. He said a lot of her soreness was memory and emotion. You can roll your eyes, but the mare got better. He sees her once a year and she let’s him adjust her without sedation.

[EmilyM]

I had a horse that I thought was lame on who knew what leg. Sometimes all four. Vet was like hmmm he doesn’t want to go maybe front feet or neck. So we injected stuff no improvement. He always seemed better after he pooped so I asked to try misoprostal, and he was a new horse within a week. I thought the pooping was a symptom of pain not necessarily ulcers.

Not sure it’s the same for you but the sensitivity grooming made me think of it.

[NaturallyHappy]

@jherold

He said a lot of her soreness was memory and emotion.

I believe this. The book “Is your horse 100%?” by Margret Hinkels addresses this along w fascial release. Are you comfortable sharing the name of the vet? Thank you.

[jherold]

Sure, since my spring appointment is already scheduled! He’s Dr. Emery at Beadle Lake Veterinary Clinic in Battlecreek Michigan. He goes to Florida to treat the fancy horses and comes back in the late spring so getting and appointment is difficult.

[NaturallyHappy]

Thank you!