I came across Trekker Luxus saddles which looked interesting then noticed they are treeless. I am having a hard time(impossible) finding a secure saddle that will fit me (narrow twist) and my broad, flat backed,short backed 15 hand TWH.
Can you inform me how treeless works ,is it just like bareback or are you up off the horse? what about stability . I know people seems to give love it or hate it response from riders. However yesterday I saw a big man riding a huge , draft type horse in a interesting saddle to discover he was a novice riding a treeless. His friend the true horseman was on another huge horse riding a racing saddle.
Its amazing how the web sites for treeless tell you so little about the concept or how they fit their saddles.
Opinions?
It varies a lot by saddle. The yahoo treeless group is the best place for information. I ride my horses treeless. You do need to have a secure, independent seat. My horses’ backs do very well with my saddles, but they do still have to fit - although it’s less of a challenge than finding a treed saddle to fit, with some horses.
That’s almost too broad of a question. I ride mostly treeless and have a Ghost Firenze and a Barefoot Tahoe- with the Tahoe being my go-to. I’ve also ridden in Black Forests, a Freeform and a Torsion. They are all very different. I don’t know if I am just particularly balanced or what, but I’ve never found treeless to be less secure than treed. I think the number one A most important thing with treeless is having the correct pad/ padding system. If you’re looking for a narrow twist though- that might be a tough find. One of the reasons I like treeless so much are that they tend to have a wide twist. I think the Heather Moffit treeless saddles are supposed to have fairly narrow twists though
They are all different. I’d ask over at the endurance.net forum called Ride Camp. My experience is with the Freeform and Torsion saddles and both function very differently and are endurance types.
The torsion is closer contact and has had a hard molded pommel the provides some lateral stability but doesn’t press down on the horse like a tree. The twist feels rather wide because it’s just a thick pad over your horse. I didn’t find it very comfortable.
The Freeform is formed and injection molded foam with a built in piece of flexible metal at the wither. The molded shape and wither plate provide some stability. The seat is padded up to a much narrower twist which I found more comfortable. It feels like riding a couch and I’ve had several people go out and buy one after riding in mine. The stirrup D attachment is adjustable to any position. The Freemax is the ripoff version started by one of the Freeform founders and reviews are pretty favorable for its rock bottom price.
Most treeless saddles require specialized and quite expensive saddle pads like the Skito and HAF so factor that into your price. These are absolutely necessary to provide spinal clearance and proper padding. Also, a breastplate provides additional security.
These saddles are not as stable as a treed saddle I could mount from the ground but very carefully. You will know if you are riding crooked.
Thanks great information and because my legs aren’t strong I’ll have to continue my saddle hunt for a treed saddle.
I’ve had a Barefoot London (the original) and didn’t like the long flaps. I now have a Dressage Free Max (not the ones you see on ebay, these are not sold in US) which I love and a cheapie, English, suede, trail saddle. I’ve had those for about 10 years and use a regular, dressage pad that has slots for foam inserts, with a baby pad under. The thing about treeless (not part treeless) is once they are warmed by body heat, they should fit like a glove. I went thru the “special padding” route but didn’t like all that between me and the horse. My horse is 20 now and no back problems (knock on wood) after 10 years.
As I’ve said in the past, I’ve seen more problems with treed saddles than treeless. The thing is, your horse can’t go around inverted, with an unraised back, in any saddle and not have problems.
I tried riding in a treeless, very comfortable, but really started hurting my hips because there’s no twist. I really need a narrow twist, so I’m back in treed saddles.
@walkers, have a look at Harry Dabbs. They have several models for wide horses, all with upswept panels for short backs, and all available with a narrower, close-contact twist.
I ride in a Bob Marshall treeless and I feel way more secure than in a treed saddle. I can mount from the ground and have a secure deep seated ride.
I responded to your Desoto thread and will respond to this one also 
I agree that it all depends on the particular saddle. I have a mare that is extremely round and has a problem with saddles sliding WAY forward. The Barefoot Cheyenne didn’t work at all with her, went way up her neck, but I have an Ansur dressage saddle that fits great.
I would disagree that you absolutely need a special pad, or have to mount differently or do anything differently really with a treeless. I ride with the Ansur with just a regular pad, can mount from the ground, etc. (Now granted, with her I am doing arena work and short trail rides, not endurance…) I think it just all depends on the particular horse and saddle (treeless or trees) and rider. Good luck with your saddle search!
Does the Freeform have thick, padded flaps?
@Malda Yes the flaps on the freeform have the molded foam in them and are about three quarters of an inch thick. That makes it sound like they would be stiff and bulky, but they’re covered with such a fine leather that they really are flexible and mold comfortably to your leg
It really depends on the saddle. Some of the treeless saddles have gullet (ghost, newer Ansurs,) some require a special saddlepad that creates a gullet – Freeform, Torsion, Barefoot (I’m not sure about the newer ones).
Are they less secure. Yes. But if you’re a balanced rider, you probably won’t have a problem with it. They feel less secure on a mutton withered round horse because there’s nothing to stabilize them.
Will they protect your horse’s back the way a treed saddle does? No and yes. No, they won’t work as well as a properly fitted treed saddle, yes they can if you fit the treeless properly. The problem is that treeless saddles have been described as a one size fits all solution and they are not. However, I see a LOT of people riding in treed saddles that don’t come close to fitting their horses and that definitely causes problems.
I’ve played around with Treeless saddles over the years – I’ve owned a Barefoot, Torsion, Freeform, Ghost and a semi-treed Pheonix Vogue. I still own the Freeform and the Ghost. The Freeform because it rides the most like a treed saddle in terms of the twist, and the ghost because it’s got a gullet, is very comfortable and is pretty secure while still being minimalist. It’s like one step up from a bareback pad. The Ghost saddles are also available at an attractive price point.
Will they work for you? Maybe. It depends on how you ride, how much you ride, and how your horse likes it.
Same here. I loved treeless for my back, but it made for bad hip pain and I had to sell my saddle.
Look at Duett and Harry Dabbs saddles for a treed, hoop style saddle for wider/short back horses.
There are treeless saddles that have more of a “twist”. Look at Freeforms and Ghosts. In addition, Heather Moffett makes a seat attachments that creates a twist.
This is more of a bareback pad than a saddle, but my good friend got one and loves it. She has had it over a year now and has ridden with the foam seat on, and with it off. She wanted a bareback pad with stirrups that were better than the average bareback pad. With the foam seat on, it feels like a saddle, but very cushy. As with most treeless and bareback pads, you should have basic balance to ride in one. http://www.downunderweb.com/store/Saddles_Treeless.html
That is a copy of a Freeform.
well i just looked up the Freeform saddles, and the Kimberly costs only $400 compared to over $2000. And i know my friend has loved it from day one, so I personally would go with the Kimberly over the other.
That’s a huge difference. However, you can find Freeforms on the used market for about $700. They are very well made and have been well tested by the endurance community (lots of Tevis Cup winners ride in Freeforms). Obviously, I haven’t seen the Kimberly but I’ve had my Freeform for about a decade. The benefit to the Freeform is that they have head plate that helps keep the rider’s weight off the horse’s spine and aids in wither clearance. (although you still need to use one with a special pad) and I bought mine used at the time and it’s still in nice shape. Hard to say if the knock off version is as good at protecting your horse’s back.
I’m nearly 6’ tall and not as light as I used to be :). I decided to go with a model that I knew had the protection for my horse. However, if you are small/light then it’s not so critical.
