Treeless saddles for reinging, working cow horse and western dressage?

[DARQHORSE]

I’m a show jumper and dressage rider, but recently have decided I’d like to try something different and get started with some western riding. I’m primarily wanting to do western dressage, reining and maybe some light cow work (not into roping or barrels). I’m wondering if a treeless saddle would be a good idea as it is supposed to fit a large array of horses and be more comfortable for the horse? I have limited experience with fitting western tack, but am doing my best to learn as much as I can and so far it appears to be rather complicated. I don’t want do end up with a saddle that will be painful for my horse, and there are no accredited saddle fitters in my area (aside from DK who comes and visits a few times a year, but a full custom is out of my budget).

Thanks!

[Wirt]

I vote no on treeless. There are a failure, and will make a horse more sore than a well made saddle with a hard wooden tree.
I don’t know what is in your budget. What would you pay for a good dressage saddle?
You can often find used bench made saddles for around 2000.00. There are some production saddles that sell for 1200 that are decent. Or look for old used good ones.
Billy Cook. Martin.McCall, to name a few.

[SouthernTrailsGA]

Treeless Saddles are not a one size fit all, they still require fitting and special pads for fitting properly.

They are generally ugly.

They cost as much or more than a good Treed Saddle, PS… the ones that sell new for under 1,000.00 are pure trash and will end up hurting you or your Horse.

.

[Bluey]

Saddles protect the horse’s backs.

Trees give saddles support so they can protect the horse’s back best.

Treeless saddles just don’t have enough support for the rider’s weight.

Some riders and horses prefer them, but for most, a tree is what makes saddles distribute the weight over as large a surface as possible.

Trees in saddles permit them to stay off sensitive structures like the top of the spine and provide stability side to side.
Those are the goals of saddles, something you won’t have in treeless saddles.

There are different types of treeless saddles, so if that is what you want, you can try them and see if one of those does work for you.

I have a friend, that makes his living horseback, that had a horse rear and fall on him and broke his pelvis and leg.
After months of rehab, he started riding again and his regular saddle made his hip hurt.
He tried a treeless and he could ride comfortably again.
After several more months, he healed enough that he could again ride in his regular treed saddle.
He said the horse sure was more comfortable with the standard tree saddle.

[tabula_rashah]

Sigh so much bad information above… a treeless saddle has to be properly fitted just like a treed saddle. I’ve been riding treeless for years, none of my horses are sore. I am religious about checking my horses’ backs because if they are sore, they will not be allowed to compete (endurance, CTR) as they are checked by vets throughout the competition. I know plenty of people who use them for 50-100 miles rides and believe me, if it makes your horse sore, you wouldn’t be using it. They also are not a one size fits all type deal. I have 5 horses and 2 treeless saddles (a Barefoot Tahoe and a Ghost Firenze)- the Barefoot fits horses A, B and C while the Ghost fits horses A, D and E but all of them are padded differently according to the horse for proper fit. I suppose it does save me money in that I don’t have to have 5 saddles for 5 horses but the saddles plus the appropriate padding are still plenty pricey. You cannot use a saddle pad meant for a treed saddle (I find this is what actually causes the soreness that most people say is due to the fault of the treeless saddle). Most of my padding set ups are around $400-$500 each.
A properly fitted/ padded treeless offers plenty of stability. I can mount from the ground without them slipping (although I don’t because I don’t feel mounting from the ground in any saddle is a good idea for your horse’s back) and there is complete spinal clearance- I can run dressage whip through the gullet while I’m sitting on the horse. I’ve done 12 hour rides on some wicked mountain trails- no slipping, no soreness. Sweat patterns are perfectly even after a hard work. I actually have one horse that will either not move or having a bucking fit if she doesn’t like what’s on her back (that time I tried a bareback pad in the ring was fun:cool: )

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=tabula rashah;8675784]
Sigh so much bad information above… a treeless saddle has to be properly fitted just like a treed saddle. I’ve been riding treeless for years, none of my horses are sore. I am religious about checking my horses’ backs because if they are sore, they will not be allowed to compete (endurance, CTR) as they are checked by vets throughout the competition. I know plenty of people who use them for 50-100 miles rides and believe me, if it makes your horse sore, you wouldn’t be using it. They also are not a one size fits all type deal. I have 5 horses and 2 treeless saddles (a Barefoot Tahoe and a Ghost Firenze)- the Barefoot fits horses A, B and C while the Ghost fits horses A, D and E but all of them are padded differently according to the horse for proper fit. I suppose it does save me money in that I don’t have to have 5 saddles for 5 horses but the saddles plus the appropriate padding are still plenty pricey. You cannot use a saddle pad meant for a treed saddle (I find this is what actually causes the soreness that most people say is due to the fault of the treeless saddle). Most of my padding set ups are around $400-$500 each.
A properly fitted/ padded treeless offers plenty of stability. I can mount from the ground without them slipping (although I don’t because I don’t feel mounting from the ground in any saddle is a good idea for your horse’s back) and there is complete spinal clearance- I can run dressage whip through the gullet while I’m sitting on the horse. I’ve done 12 hour rides on some wicked mountain trails- no slipping, no soreness. Sweat patterns are perfectly even after a hard work. I actually have one horse that will either not move or having a bucking fit if she doesn’t like what’s on her back (that time I tried a bareback pad in the ring was fun:cool: )[/QUOTE]

Maybe if a treeless saddle works for some also depends on what you do horseback?

If you are training and competing in endurance, you are really riding light and staying off the horse’s back, unlike working cattle or training for other, like cutting or reining, where you are sitting in the saddle and moving hard sideways.

Maybe that could be why for some kinds of riding, some saddles may work, that would not as well for other kinds?

I know some barrel racers like treeless, others they don’t seem to work for them.
Guess that the OP needs to try some to see how she feels about them, too many people on both sides.

[Wirt]

It figures a treeless saddle would be called the barefoot.

Treeless and western in the same sentence is what seems off to me.
You cannot rope anything in a treeless.

Sounds like it’s the padding that makes the saddle work, not the saddle.

[tabula_rashah]

[QUOTE=Wirt;8675856]
It figures a treeless saddle would be called the barefoot.

Treeless and western in the same sentence is what seems off to me.
You cannot rope anything in a treeless.

Sounds like it’s the padding that makes the saddle work, not the saddle.[/QUOTE]

OP specifically said that she will not be roping- I agree that roping would not be a great idea in a treeless saddle but I also wouldn’t want to rope anything in your run of the mill western saddle either. The padding and the saddle are used in conjunction to make the package work as a whole- that is a problem why? Have you ever ridden in a properly fitted treeless saddle? My guess is no. I know most horse people in general can’t wrap their heads around anything non traditional.

[Pocket_Pony]

I’ve tried and had a couple of treeless saddles over the years, and I actually tried a treeless western saddle once.

For me, the only thing I like a treeless saddle for is trail riding. One horse I had, that was pretty much all we did was go for long walking trail rides in the forest and the saddle I had for him (Freeform) was very comfortable for that and it seemed comfortable for him as well.

I didn’t care for the western treeless saddle I tried, just didn’t like it. But there are many people who like the Bob Marshall saddles and I’m sure they have a good trial policy so you can see if you like it.

I never had any stability problems with the treeless saddle I had, and I didn’t use any breast collar with it. Rode that horse up and down some steep hills and never any slippage. I could also mount from the ground.

I’ve had some chronic back pain issues and some hip pain now, too. If I’m just moseying down the trail, then I find treeless to be very comfortable and I don’t get off and hobble around for the rest of the day. But if I want to do any serious work, I actually find the treeless to be less comfortable, go figure.

Western saddle fitting is hard, you are correct about that. But treeless isn’t a magical guarantee and one size does not fit all. You may end up doing trials of as many treeless saddles as you would traditional saddles…

[beau159]

[QUOTE=DARQHORSE;8675622]
I’m a show jumper and dressage rider, but recently have decided I’d like to try something different and get started with some western riding. I’m primarily wanting to do western dressage, reining and maybe some light cow work (not into roping or barrels). I’m wondering if a treeless saddle would be a good idea as it is supposed to fit a large array of horses and be more comfortable for the horse? [/QUOTE]

I agree with the other posters that it really is a myth that a treeless saddle fits more horses and is more comfortable. An incorrectly fitting treeless saddle can be just as “damaging” as an incorrectly fitting tree saddle. I can understand that treeless sounds much EASIER for someone new to the Western world, but they are certainly not a one-size-fits-all. And, you do lose the weight-dispersion advantage of a tree’ed saddle.

What sort of cow work are you wanting to do? Ranch horse? Reined cow horse? While I’ve personally not used a treeless saddle myself, one “complaint” I’ll often here from people for performance events in a treeless saddle is they may feel like they have trouble getting “up and out” of the saddle when you need to do a quick maneuver (like running down and turning a cow).

You also have to think about the horse too. If you’ve got a horse with very little wither or more of a round build, treeless also can tend to be very rolly-polly. Not something you want when you are working on your reining spins!

So not saying that a treeless saddle won’t work for you, but there definately is just as much into fitting a treeless saddle, as a tree’ed saddle.

Here’s a few western saddle fitting websites to get your feet wet.
http://saddlemakers.org/id193.htm
http://www.rodnikkel.com/content/tree-and-saddle-fitting/factors-that-affect-tree-fit/

Even if you can’t find a saddle fitter, is there at least a western trainer in your area that can help you with a saddle search?