Trot - bracing and charging through the aids?

[Chestnut_Mare1]

First post on this forum, hello everyone. I’ve been reading dressage posts here for years and have learned a lot from everyone’s experiences.

I have a 17hh chestnut Swedish WB/TB mare. We have not started showing yet, but that is the plan for next year. One of the many issues we are working on at the moment is her charging through the aids at the trot. Walk and canter are really lovely.

She seems to brace up in the trot and I’m just looking for some thoughts of what it could be. We are working with a wonderful trainer and started full training this week with her after struggling with various others over the past few years.

[tbchick84]

If she’s just locking her jaw, there’s a very simple exercise you can do to get her to let go so to speak. At the halt, just ask for flexion (just enough to see inside eyelashes) left, then right, then left, etc until she’s let go and then resume work. If she is bracing, she will most likely try to turn her entire body the first few times you ask for flexion. Just be patient until she understands what you want.

[Mondo]

Chestnut mare. LOL - says it all! But one thing that comes to my mind (without seeing you ride her) is that horses that brace, have to have something to brace against. That would usually be the rider. It’s a chicken and egg thing. Doesn’t really matter which one of you started it, but you are now both involved. If she’s a big mover and you have to really work to sit or stay with her trot when posting, you could be tensing in your forearms or shoulders and not even aware of it. She locks her jaw in defense and it snowballs from there. Does the issue occur when your trainer rides her? If not, there’s your answer. You might try practicing the trot work on the longe with no reins to get in your/her way a few times until you can feel where the tensing is coming from. She will likely not brace and run through your aids and you will be able to get past this. Good luck.

[Chestnut_Mare1]

[QUOTE=Mondo;8671799]
Chestnut mare. LOL - says it all! But one thing that comes to my mind (without seeing you ride her) is that horses that brace, have to have something to brace against. That would usually be the rider. It’s a chicken and egg thing. Doesn’t really matter which one of you started it, but you are now both involved. If she’s a big mover and you have to really work to sit or stay with her trot when posting, you could be tensing in your forearms or shoulders and not even aware of it. She locks her jaw in defense and it snowballs from there. Does the issue occur when your trainer rides her? If not, there’s your answer. You might try practicing the trot work on the longe with no reins to get in your/her way a few times until you can feel where the tensing is coming from. She will likely not brace and run through your aids and you will be able to get past this. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

LOL! Yes, I think you nailed it on the head! It does not help that she is a huge moving chestnut mare with a history of rearing either. I do hold on and have a hard time letting go in the trot - however, sitting trot without stirrups and there is no bracing from either of us. Wonder why that is?

My seat is getting much stronger and I’m becoming more independent of my hands, but she is a big mover and when I get tired or worried, my arms lock up and then we start the pulling match. What can I do to unlock my arms/joints to stop this cycle?

[RedHorses]

Our tendency is to want to stop, or at least slow the horse first in this situation which really gives the horse something to brace against. I have found greater success in breaking the brace first. Try counter bend, try a figure eight or serpentine (ignoring the speed issue until you have softened the bracing). Remembering to really get the bend from the leg. Sometimes holding the inside rein steady and using many little half halts including the outside rein works. Sometimes thinking about riding forward (ie. leg) into a slower trot helps too. Lateral work (leg yield, shoulder in) can help break the bracing.

[Pipkin]

Probably a seat thing! I find it easy to engage my core in walk and canter, but not in rising trot. I’m like you, sitting trot is fine, I can keep pony on the seat aids and it’s reflected in his way of going. I guess lunge lessons may help? Also try doing short bursts of trot, and changing gait before it gets messy?

[Magicboy]

I saw Betsy Steiner give a rider little stuffed animals --she called them hamsters! --to hold in her armpits. The rider said it helped steady her hands and relax her arms…got a lot of laughs but seemed to work. I was riding in the same arena when one flew out onto the ground…guess we dressage folks will try anything…

I think lots of up and down transitions help a lt, too, with or without hamsters

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=RedHorses;8671847]
Our tendency is to want to stop, or at least slow the horse first in this situation which really gives the horse something to brace against. I have found greater success in breaking the brace first. Try counter bend, try a figure eight or serpentine (ignoring the speed issue until you have softened the bracing). Remembering to really get the bend from the leg. Sometimes holding the inside rein steady and using many little half halts including the outside rein works. Sometimes thinking about riding forward (ie. leg) into a slower trot helps too. Lateral work (leg yield, shoulder in) can help break the bracing.[/QUOTE]

It is impossible to do a correct S/I with a horse that is bracing. a horse bracing, is a horse stiffening, usually against locked elbow, which even at the sitting trot must give forward. In a true S/I the rider must be able to give the inside rein.

OP, have your instructor work with you on correct Trot-Halt transitions, from the seat first, then the hand, from there you can get to half-halts which will interrupt the bracing.

[Chestnut_Mare1]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8675979]
It is impossible to do a correct S/I with a horse that is bracing. a horse bracing, is a horse stiffening, usually against locked elbow, which even at the sitting trot must give forward. In a true S/I the rider must be able to give the inside rein.

OP, have your instructor work with you on correct Trot-Halt transitions, from the seat first, then the hand, from there you can get to half-halts which will interrupt the bracing.[/QUOTE]

We started working on exactly that - downward transitions from trot to halt and canter to halt. It is still a bit rough going as I am still working on sitting HEAVIER. The other thing that seems to work is square turns at trot and canter.

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=Chestnut_Mare;8677661]
We started working on exactly that - downward transitions from trot to halt and canter to halt. It is still a bit rough going as I am still working on sitting HEAVIER. The other thing that seems to work is square turns at trot and canter.[/QUOTE]

It is not so much sitting heavier, as it is holding with your core.

[Chestnut_Mare1]

You are correct, holding with the core, except to me that translates to putting weight in my stirrups too. The sitting heavier and holding my core is what seems to work for now. I was a hunter/jumper in my early 20’s and now doing dressage for a few years in my late 30’s. Changing muscle memory is harder than learning a new language LOL! I’m lucky to have a very sensitive horse who needs to be ridden and asked just right - it makes you learn faster : ) The other challenge now is learning half pass when all I’ve done is leg yield for years! Anyone care to describe that? My horse will do it simply with a shift of weight for my trainer, but I can’t figure it out!!

[RedHorses]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8675979]
It is impossible to do a correct S/I with a horse that is bracing. a horse bracing, is a horse stiffening, usually against locked elbow, which even at the sitting trot must give forward. In a true S/I the rider must be able to give the inside rein. [/QUOTE]

Exactly why it works. It breaks the RIDER’s lock by forcing them to use all of their other aids, which then allows the horse to stop bracing.

Sometimes we need a little psych out to get past a block. :winkgrin:

[Moogles]

[QUOTE=Chestnut_Mare;8677789]
You are correct, holding with the core, except to me that translates to putting weight in my stirrups too. The sitting heavier and holding my core is what seems to work for now. I was a hunter/jumper in my early 20’s and now doing dressage for a few years in my late 30’s. Changing muscle memory is harder than learning a new language LOL! I’m lucky to have a very sensitive horse who needs to be ridden and asked just right - it makes you learn faster : ) The other challenge now is learning half pass when all I’ve done is leg yield for years! Anyone care to describe that? My horse will do it simply with a shift of weight for my trainer, but I can’t figure it out!![/QUOTE]

But be careful that putting more weight into your stirrups does not lead to “standing” in the stirrups. I don’t mean literal standing but the effect of locking the hips and not sitting deep and with the motion. I have a habit of doing this when horsey takes over in the canter and while I think I’m sitting into it more, my heavier weight in the stirrup is detrimental as I start to lock my hips slightly.

What I need to be doing is following the motion but adding more lower leg aid to rock him back on his haunches. It is super duper tempting to stop with the hand and take the leg off in horse the braces or take over when we need to do the exact opposite, use less hand and more seat leg aids to sit them down and then they can lighten and bend correctly.

Use small circles to your advantage, if you feel him braced or taking over use a 10m circle to bring him back, bend and rebalance him. You might need a circle every ten 10-15m until he has the strength to hold himself soft and balanced. Also 10m circles help prevent “pulling” and encourage you to ride it.

As for half pass you need to master shoulder in and haunches in first. Half pass comes from being able to ride the horse forward with bend diagonally. Some describe it as haunches in on a diagonal line, but I think of it more as the bend felt on a circle forward and over with shoulders leading (driving forward inside leg and respecting the outside leg to go over). When you think of the bend of a circle then you tend to weigh your seat bones better. Too many people incorrectly have their weight on the outside seatbone thinking unwisely that they are moving the horse over or they collapse in their hips from trying too hard. Also you must give enough on the outside rein to allow the bend and not kill the hind with false neck bend, you can’t pull the horse into bend (another common fault) which is why mastering SI and HP first is important. I prefer to ride shoulder in then go into half pass but you will find people have many different preferences.

[ulan]

The bracing of the horse clearly comes from the rider sitting deep on purpose and locking arms.This what my teacher in Germany drilled into us from the beginning. “It is not how much you do, but how little at the right place and time”. When you sit deep, you have to be able to spread your buttock well and loosely. No.1 Are your pants so tight that you sit on a pair of balloons? Just spread and let the legs “rest” on the barrel. No.2 If your arms tighten up, look at your hands. Are they closed - fisted?? Make them Hollow. Then check your thumbs and knuckles. Any time you knuckles are on top, your elbows go out and the shoulder blades round out, even a little bit. Try it anywhere, even not in the saddle. THEN check your THUMBS! If they are flat, press down on them when holding the reins and you will feel the tension go all the way up to your shoulder. NOW tent them and do the same, slightly (or more) and feel how the tension STOPS at the wrist! Now you only have to use less effort to handle your hands and the reaction will go forward much softer and easier to control.
All this sounds a bit unusual but has worked for me for 50some years as also for my students.
Now to down transitions. Sit with relaxed thighs deeply and soft ankles. Have your hanfs very steady,with contact (not pull).Stay this that position until you want to slow down and in a smooth and soft action tense your FINGERs, not pull more, just enough to give signal "not forward anymore) and at the SAME time pull up your TOES! Do not push down your heels instead! This tightens slightly your whole leg all the way to your seat, bringing the hindquarters under and lower the tempo or stop. YES It works with EVERY horse! This was one of my teacher’s “tricks” why his students always had good transition. Start at walk-halt and let the horse FEEL it. You might be surprised at the result!!

[ulan]

Sorry to come back with another way of using your hands. Try not to use your whole hand in half-halts but your FIGERS. Teach them to be soft and flexible. Not only will all half-halts be softer but also smoother and the Judje can’t see any of it, exept in the horse’s mouth.
Good luck and be ready to be surprised.