Then what makes a vehicle a ‘marathon vehicle’?
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Then what makes a vehicle a ‘marathon vehicle’?[/QUOTE]
In the sense of a modern, “purpose built marathon vehicle” it would include:
- Constructed of metal, not wood.
- Navigator rides behind the driver.
- Short shafts, wheel guards to prevent catching on posts.
That’s not to say you can’t drive a marathon in a wooden road cart.
http://www.dragondriving.co.uk/images/horsecarts/carriage1367-1.jpg
there you go small marthon type one for 12 .2 hhs
Is TN too far? For pleasure carts try this http://www.buggybobs.com/about.htm
Just heard from someone that has one of Bobs carriages and was not happy with it. I can’t speak for the carriages but I have seen the 2 wheel mini/pony cart and it was nice for the money. Buyer beware no matter where you go!
[QUOTE=slc2;4256085]
Then what makes a vehicle a ‘marathon vehicle’?[/QUOTE]
Of course I can answer this and I will and mainly because it might be helpful for others and particulary for novices. So I’ll run the risk and presume again that you actually are looking to learn.
So my inclination is to copy part of the post in the FAQ’s as a sticky reference.
The concern is that you’ve got a driving pony are having lessons (???) and are at the stage of talking about such as buying a vehicle but yet seem perplexed about the absolute basics and such as what you want or even what it should and shouldn’t look like, be and do.
A lot of folks struggle to decide which vehicle to invest in or even which comes first in terms of the horse or the cart and it’s even frequent that people have a carriage and look to find a horse to fit it. However the first principle before you buy anything must be:
Go have lessons and learn the fundamental basics.
I posted earlier about the principle differences with a cross country marathon vehicle and a pleasure (or private driving) vehicle but it seems that you’re not understanding what is just very basic driving knowledge.
In driving terms the questions you’re asking are akin to someone popping onto the dressage forums and saying “I’ve just got a horse given, do you think I should buy a western saddle or an English saddle. Oh and I don’t want to spend too much”
Put simply you’re not even asking the right questions and the information you’ve given is insufficient in order for any knowledgeable person to implicitly tell you what is the best solution.
So far though you’ve been given quite a bit of general advice but truth be told you need to go and learn to drive and understand how critical the vehicle is for the horse’s way of going and dependent on the what you intend to do. Coming into that equation is:
Your size and weight.
The pony’s type, size and weight.
You’re ability (current and potential).
The pony’s ability (ditto).
The terrain you will generally drive
What you would eventually like to do: short term and long term
Your resources (time and money)
There’s a huge difference between say driving a couple of miles occasionally on the lanes and perhaps even occasionally entering said driving pony in local driving classes. Or having a driving pony in peak fitness and musculature and competing in higher level private driving classes. Or doing some specific competitive activity whereby you will test you and your pony’s ability, stamina, bravery, speed, agility, driving skill, accuracy and level of training.
Now in your case what I have come to know from your postings is that you’ve a rescue welsh section A type pony found in a 6 foot manure pile that was very nervous and damaged. You’ve never driven before but have had a/some lessons from a driving trainer.
Proper driving tuition will include extensive training on the vehicle and the harness. Makes no difference whether you’re in the UK or the USA it’s just what you get. Put simply it’s no different to a riding instructor explaining why you need balance and an independent seat to ride.
If you’re not getting training on the vehicle and the harness and how critical that is in terms of affecting your way of going then you’re not getting proper driving tuition. Again the parallel would be the riding instructor that takes you for a ride rather than teaches you to ride and saying “just sit on top and hang on and kick and pull”
Having given you some comparitive examples though you need to know that driving is totally different to riding and the vehicle (and harness) is critical to your horse’s health, welfare, livelihood, way of going and performance. Choose the wrong vehicle and you and your pony will never ever ever reach it’s potential. At best it will just hinder ability to do what you want to do or cause your pony to jib. At worst you could have an accident or bolt. You need to appreciate that an accident with a driving horse is intrinsically always going to be worse than one with a riding horse.
A carriage is an expensive outlay. Now I’m intrinsically a tight assed Yorkshire Farmer. My wife says a Yorkshire farmer’s war cry is “HOW MUCH!?” This means I HATE wasting money. Makes no difference whether it’s £1, £500 or £5,000. That means that no matter what I buy I want it to be fit for purpose and get value out of it. So whether you can afford to spend $2,000 or $10,000 is sort or irrelevent if you end up buying something you don’t actually need or can’t use for a long time.
If you’re not intending to do horse driving trials or even just occassionally do challenging long distance cross country work at speed and with tight turns it would be a total waste of money buying a marathon vehicle. Makes no difference whether it’s $4,000 or $10,000 you just won’t need what it offers and you’ll maybe even find the ride uncomfortable for protracted road driving because of the suspension springing. Pleasure vehicles of good quality which you can even use right up to high level showing for a single small pony will be 2 wheeled gig or dog cart types and on eliptical springing for comfort. They float over the road surface and make it comfortable for you and easy for a small pony to work effectively with. A marathon vehicle has to be able to push into challenging (slippy/extreme hilly) rough land and to get traction the springing and suspension system means it can be a harder ride than you need for pleasure driving road work. Plus all the extra features required for cross country work would mean it would be an expense you just don’t need.
If you have a marathon vehicle you have a back step for your groom (navigator in the US) to balance your vehicle to keep you upright and your wheels on the ground when you’re zipping around tight turns at canter. The whole centre of gravity is therefore different. If you’re pleasure driving or showing you’re passenger or groom sits next to you so the vehicle is designed to accommodate 2 people facing forward.
If you want to know what is actually best for you if you’re able to provide information as aforementioned then experienced drivers can give you specific advice. However you are best advised to go to a good driving instructor and spend a little money investing in the basics and get them to fully and properly explain and demonstrate what you need to look out for and know before shopping.
Previously I’ve posted about a video by John Parker - Chairman of the BDS and ex world champion teams HDT driver, member of the Coaching Club, International private driving judge. It’s perhaps the best I’ve seen to explain and show what to watch out for and consider when it comes to choice of vehicle and harness.
But I’ll say it again. Google and a bulletin board is not how to learn. Neither can a book or video ever be a substitute for good practical instruction.
You’ve told us repeatedly you have a good professional driving instructor. But so far you’ve not said who or where so we don’t know if what you’re getting is good instruction or if that person is going to be able to help. But your driving instructor is the person to ask for help. They know your pony and your ability and ambitions and objectives.
You’re pretty lucky with the driving threads here because it’s got some very experienced and knowledgeable drivers on and with a wide range of professional, varied and even just rock solid extensive practical experience and as such you will get some good advice and which ultimately will help you to avoid wasting time and money. So if you are doubtful or hestitant that you’re getting what you need you merely need to just be specific about what you’re doing and where you’re going and because driving is a small world you’ll find folks know how to use the networks and can help and advise quickly how to get what you need.
I am required to name the instructor I take driving lessons from?
Quite a few driving people in my area know her and highly recommend her, and she worked with one of the best folks around here for 14 years. I don’t feel I have to name her for you. I’m satisfied that she’s a good instructor. And I’m quite convinced that if I do name her, you, Thomas, will have some horrible comments to make about her, without even ever having met her.
I don’t feel I really need a marathon cart right now, though I don’t think it matters that much what I get in my current situation. I have no intention of driving on the paved road ever, the traffic is horribly fast in this area, the roads windy, and there is no side lane or shoulder. Last year an Amish lady was driving a buggy and was killed on a road near here. I’m not interested in driving on the roads. I’m putting in a little track round my farm and there are paths to ride on at area parks. Besides, I don’t intend to do this intensively or to compete. A pleasure drive with the local club might fit in in the future, but it will probably wait til I get another pony.
Because of the economy being so terrible in the US, one gal thought I would easily pick up a marathon cart cheap, and insisted I must have one because it will turn much better than a dog cart. She insisted I’ll just have to get a 4 wheel marathon vehicle. Why? I don’t know. She drives a marathon vehicle. But they are not selling for cheap.
And of course, the next driving person I talk to, tells me a cart is fine, and there’s no sense in bothering getting a 4 wheel marathon vehicle. The opinions on brands and makes are even more disparate. This brand is great. This brand is the only one you should ever buy. I ask another person and turns out that brand just STINKS. One says a wire spoked wheel cart is fine, another tells me it’s a suicide rig.
LOL.
I think I’ll get something in between ‘super fantastic’ and ‘junk’.
S - if you aren’t already on the CD-L (carriage driving message board), sign up at CD-L@LISTSERV.DARTMOUTH.EDU. Lately I’ve been seeing some decent ads at decent prices on CD-L for small pony vehicles and carts. They seem to be just what you are looking for your pony.
Having been where you are now not all that many years ago, I remember well the advice, the confusion and the bad interim vehicle purchases I made on the way to where I am now. I think people have a tendency to cheerlead for the vehicle they are finally happy with which probably explains the adamant and conflicting opinions you’re hearing. But cheerleading is just that. I could go on at length with why my vehicle is perfect for me but how would that help you? When you consider the variables in vehicles, horses and ponies as well as your own particular driving style and ability and goals…well, the number of possible combinations seems infinite. And the likelihood that anyone can tell you with certainty that “what you need is x, y, or z” is pretty small.
I do think the buying errors I’ve made have contributed more to my knowledge base than anything I’ve heard, read or seen along the way. Only when you actually use a vehicle for awhile can you see the pro’s and cons of it and only then do you know that “next time I buy I know I do/don’t want this or that.” The same is true with harness. Picking the brains of experienced drivers and trainers is enormously helpful but if you’re a hands-on learner like I am there is no substitute for ‘live and learn’. I don’t know how many people keep and use their very first vehicle and harness for the rest of their lives but I’ll bet it’s a tiny number. I think the best you can hope for is that whatever you buy, you (a) don’t pay too much for it and (b) find a ready buyer for it when you realize it doesn’t completely suit you. I’ve had pretty good luck in that respect. And as much as I would like to spare the next newbie driver all the angst I went through in acquiring the knowledge and experience I have and all the bad purchases I made, I really don’t think that’s possible.
This philosphizing probably doesn’t help you at all other than to assure you that you’re not the first person to go through this experience and also that unless you get totally taken to the cleaners with your first vehicle purchase, you should be able to sell it and buy what you really need, in the (likely) event that your first purchase doesn’t suit your needs for the rest of your life. The bottom line is assess yourself, your pony and your driving goals for the foreseeable future and then take the plunge and buy. And if over time you find your initial purchase doesn’t continue to meet your needs, you will be in very good and plentiful company.
Given your stated goals, in my opinion, a good, well-fitting 2-wheel wooden cart of the Meadowbrook or road cart variety should work just fine. If pony is green, I prefer 2 wheels to 4, since a 4-wheeler will jackknife (and possibly flip over!) if pony does a 180. A 2-wheeler by contrast simply spins on the inside wheel and follows pony. What you do want to avoid is anything that has pneumatic “bike tires” - the thin spindly kind. They are designed for ring work only, you can have blowouts or have the spokes collapse when driving in woods/fields.
Meadowbrooks and road carts are a dime a dozen - God knows I can’t seem to manage to unload mine! :lol: (It’s HRH Avery’s, so WAYYY too big for you & pony though.)
I’d suggest joining CD-L also - lots of private buying/selling going on there and lots of folks who will be happy to steer you right.
Have fun & good luck!
ETA: I covet one of those Pacific Carriages ones you linked to; that’d be fine as well.
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I am required to name the instructor I take driving lessons from? .[/QUOTE] Absolutely not compulsory. But there’s a lot of folks on these forums who have genuine experience and knowledge. Carriage driving is an elite sport and with a tight network.
It’s great you’ve got confidence in her but a paradox that you’re posting here and touting around anyone who will respond to ask for advice.
But hey ho I’m sure you have your reasons.
Quite a few driving people in my area know her and highly recommend her, and she worked with one of the best folks around here for 14 years. I don’t feel I have to name her for you. I’m satisfied that she’s a good instructor. And I’m quite convinced that if I do name her, you, Thomas, will have some horrible comments to make about her, without even ever having met her.
I’m sure she speaks highly of you too
Unless she’s been driving high level CDE or Coaching or is an official of the ADS then I’m not likely to know her at all. I don’t have knowledge of your neck of the woods and am not aware it’s the centre for driving though. Strange though that whilst you’re totally satisfied she’s good that you can’t ask her to help you with advice about a vehicle and are confident others would make horrible comments about her.
I don’t feel I really need a marathon cart right now, though I don’t think it matters that much what I get in my current situation.
Glad we could help you clarify your requirements.
I’m putting in a little track round my farm
Why don’t you just drive on the fields and save a load of money? Seems odd to invest in a track and be looking to save money on the vehicle. That’s a bit like building an indoor school but not having a high level horse!
Because of the economy being so terrible in the US, one gal thought I would easily pick up a marathon cart cheap, and insisted I must have one because it will turn much better than a dog cart. She insisted I’ll just have to get a 4 wheel marathon vehicle.
For pleasure driving a small pony a 2 wheeler trap or gig would be preferable.
Why? I don’t know. She drives a marathon vehicle.
You’d need to ask her why
But they are not selling for cheap.
They won’t be. The thing is CDE isn’t exactly a cheap sport and whilst the economy is in recession it’s so far been unaffected. Indeed it’s a growing sport, in the USA, Europe and elsewhere come to that. Seems pretty logical to me that a sport that is just extremely expensive isn’t exactly going to be first hit in a recession.
What you will find though is that the cheaper end of driving is hit and cheap vehicles are coming up for nothing.
Really driving isn’t that different to riding. High level dressage isn’t exactly awash with folks looking to sell their fancy Stuben saddles cheap.
And of course, the next driving person I talk to, tells me a cart is fine, and there’s no sense in bothering getting a 4 wheel marathon vehicle. The opinions on brands and makes are even more disparate. This brand is great. This brand is the only one you should ever buy. I ask another person and turns out that brand just STINKS. One says a wire spoked wheel cart is fine, another tells me it’s a suicide rig.
That’s what happens when you tout for opinion. No different to if you tout for opinion on the best saddle. It’s why I asked who your trainer was and wondered why you weren’t getting advice from there.
Truth is when you’re a novice it’s often extremely difficult trying to discern the competent from those who are advanced in bovine excrement or google.
The smart thing to do is to learn sufficient to know who genuinely has knowledge and select a fantastic trainer and elicit their support and get their advice.
Advice on the equipage is something that is ordinarily intrinsic to driving lessons.
LOL.
I think I’ll get something in between ‘super fantastic’ and ‘junk’
Erm… You might be better to follow the old addage that “smart people learn from the mistakes of others” and narrow down your options.
I’ll give you some hints though: Avoid pneumatic tyres and bike wheels and spokes. Stick to 2 wheels. Go for a light weight well balanced gig or trap type. Ensure the fit is good.
The Meadowbrook types that WA suggested is of that type - but I personally don’t know their weight, and I know your pony is small. So you want to talk to folks that have tried them with ponies of your size and type and who are of your general build.
Talk to your instructor.
Not sure it is any use at all, but I’ve been quite content with my Amish-made meadowbrook type cart. I bought it used (through my previous driving instructor) for $500. I got new wheels to change the height (it was a little low for my horse) and had a local kid strip and re-varnish it in his spare time, so that was another $500 all told.
I drive for fun, on the roads sometimes, in the outdoor ring (I love cones), on fields and tracks around the farm, and occasionally at local pleasure shows.
If I had the $ to buy another I would focus on two features: 1) easier entry! I hate climbing over the seat, and it is challenging for guest passengers. I would get front entry, or the kind with the folding seat, or something like that. 2) a back on the seat. Mine is just a bench seat, which is lovely 90% of the time, but sometimes when you lurch forward unexpectedly you wish for a moment you had that seat back just in case you weren’t quick enough to catch yourself!
But it works well enough, and it’s simple to maintain. The local folks with marathon vehicles get the brakes serviced at the auto repair place!
slc, why don’t you talk to your instructor? If she really exists. That’s what you’re paying for… unless it’s only monopoly money
