I’ve seen a lot of advice on this forum to not buy a cheap starter type cart, but I’ve also seen the good vehicles seem to be quite expensive and honestly, in my pony’s size(12.2 hands), rather rare. I haven’t found one yet.
Is it reasonable to widen the search to include vehicles in need of repair or repainting? Has anyone done their own repairs on an otherwise better quality vehicle or paid to have repairs done, any experiences anyone in that?
Yes, but they were all antiques that were the highest quality made at the time and could well be reconditioned back to perfection with quality repair. NONE of which is cheap, BTW. My husband did most of the work, and even built a reproduction Brewster pony pair vehicle using an antique undercarriage and a Brewster vehicle for his model – but he has many, many years in the CAA learning about carriages and working on restoration. He also has an automotive background which certainly helped with knowing the gearing (albeit a carriage gearing is on a far more ancient level than our modern cars) We have unfailing seen that many vehicles cost thousands to “professionally” recondition/repair, far than their market value…which is why you see so many “used” carriages/vehicles sold in “as is” condition.
Sure, you can slap a coat of paint on anything you want – just make sure it is in good working order when you do so because most carts/carriages that need paint also need a good makeover in their running gear and body construction as well.
Lots of manufactures of new vehicles sell to the size range of your pony. Quite a few of the people in our driving club drive ponies that size. So do I. I can assure you that carriages/carts for small/medium ponies are not rare – you just haven’t looked in the right places… or…you’re looking for something that doesn’t exist.
If you want to buy new, just contact one of the many carriage makers and put in an order for size/weight for your pony. Simple, and expedient. Open your wallet – that’s all you need to do.
If you are looking for an antique, just bring along someone who knows what it takes to evaluate and restore it. If you find a competition vehicle, bring along someone who knows how to size it and weight it to your pony. But don’t buy something wrecked or you’ll regret it.
Honestly, driving equipment isn’t cheap, and if you want safe, expect to pay for it.
The difference between a “pleasure driving” and a true marathon cart can be thousands of dollars.
Good used, meadowbrookes, easy entries (perfectly fine for pleasure shows and driving) come up well under a $1000. all the time. This is always going to be your cheapest bet. Except the little metal rigs with blow up tires (which I don’t like).
A fancier rig is going to be more.
A used good marathon type for a smaller horse…will cost you $4000. In this case, because they haven’t been around THAT long, and they hold and hold their value, buying new is definitely an option. Basically, a marathon vehicle is an expensive option (new or used). Buying used isn’t going to save you much money.
Carts aren’t like saddles, they aren’t a dime a dozen!
Places to look:
AUCTIONS!!! Martins, those in the mid-west, the Perry auction in the South, the Dixie auction in NC Auctions can be your best bet if you really spec out the vehicles before hand. Know that the popular models that everyone knows about are going to fetch the best prices, so you have to look for the undiscovered gem. For instance, pioneer forecarts always fetch more money than you can buy them new in Ohio! But easyentry carts that have cosmetic issues, are dirty, etc. can go very cheap.
Craigs list: just keep watching those ads and those in surrounding areas.
drafthorsestuff.com Often has pony sized stuff.
The carriage driving classified tends to be expensive. I don’t know why but people seem to ask more for used stuff than it costs new! It is truly weird.
http://www.carriagedriving.net/classifieds/index.php?a=5&b=12
Ebay: Occassionaly has stuff but again, it often seems to be dealers selling used stuff for too much money or it is new and VERY cheap in quality. But then a gem will pop up. Look for keywords that most people don’t search for (buggy, horsedrawn, roadster, etc). Sometimes you can pick things up because the seller just didn’t know how to describe the items.
Lancaster Trader in PA often has ads, if you live in PA.
I think there is a distinction between ‘used’ and antique, I understand that reconditioning an antique, especially authentically, can be a huge and expensive undertaking.
That’s not what I’m considering. I see some ads for vehicles that aren’t antiques at all, just in fair but repairable condition or need to be repainted.
What does anyone think of these? http://www.itebtebuggys.com/
These cost almost twice as much as the ‘beginner carts’, but doesn’t it seem they have quite good wheels and shafts?
Would this maker be a better, safer choice than many of the bicycle-wheel type carts I see?
Oh scrub that. I just got a reply from the fellow, who says he’s ill and can’t make any carts any more. What a shame, they looked much more like what people here advise.
Someone is looking out for you, Susan, with this guy not being able to make these vehicles anymore. It would have been a big mistake to get one – even if he had agreed to make one that would fit your pony. …
…because these are mini horse vehicles. Your pony would be massively oversized and all the dimensions would be all wrong. Second, their springing – those that even have springing - is put on all wrong. I suspect they did so because of the VME (very small equine) size that they had to keep the center of gravity low. The carts didn’t appear to have springing which would have made for a horrible ride.
Cielo gave you some good advice and some excellent leads. Follow up on them, and make sure you tell the carriage maker/seller first and foremost what size and breed pony you have so that they can help you select something that would best fit you needs/desires – like this pony gig for sale. The same carriage dealer also makes this rather decent 4 wheel vehicle in sizes for ponies on up to horses.
Location counts
Good use dvehicles for ponies our size (note - I drive 12.1 ponies) are easy to come by if you can look in the right places. Where do you live?
The midwest. Suggestions welcome.
One place offered me a rebuilt Pony Batmobile. It has been flipped, crashed. Said the frame had not even been stressed, just the axles and wheels replaced, but it also had new brakes and well, just about everything I could think of except the frame. 5300 dollars.
My pony batmobile was used, several years ago for $4500. This is pretty high for a used one unless it is a much newer model than mine.
The batmobile is a pretty one use vehicle. It is great for the marathon and I use it for dressage and cones cause I don’t have the room for 2 vehicles, but it won’t get you anywhere at a pleasure show. There are certainly more versitile vehicles.
Those “batmobiles” are very heavy – I think they would be far too heavy for your pony. I would also be very suspicious of stress fractures and fatigue in the metal from the accident that would be invisible to the eye.
If anyone offers you a modern marathon vehicle, make totally sure you know exactly how much it weighs. Your pony should not be asked to pull (on average) any more than 1/2 his weight in a vehicle.
You first need to decide what you actually want. There’s a huge difference between a pleasure vehicle and a cross country marathon vehicle.
They’re for totally different purposes for a kick off. So: Different construction. Different springing and suspension. Different ride. Different stability. Different weight. Different centre of gravity. Different balance. Different seating. Backstep arrangement.
Your instructor will be able and is best placed to advise and whilst carriages aren’t exactly a mass market there’s not a driving instructor anywhere in the world that doesn’t know how to source and purchase a vehicle for a client. Because the driving fraternity is a tight community group, good vehicles tend to be passed on and round. Typically driving instructors act as an intermediary for purchases and sales.
If you’re short of money and a novice and only want to buy one vehicle until you actually decide if the more challenging and riskier sport of driving trials is for you and your pony, then you’d be better advised to start with a well balanced light weight 2 wheel modern construction pleasure vehicle of gig type. You could use that for presentation classes and it will be perfectly suitable for pleasure driving and even should you go on to great things to private driving showing classes and if it’s a modern construction reproduction vehicle then you could even enter novice CDE classes with it. Because you’ve got a small pony and are a large adult, then you might be better to buy new and spec your requirements to ensure the vehicle fits and is comfortable for you and the pony. If you can’t afford genuine custom build then even the mass produced vehicles such as Bennington, ECC and Kuhlne all provide for a degree of customisation.
Consider investing in a carriage as much more important than investing in a saddle. A good vehicle will last you decades. By example the 2 vehicles I use most often are a 2 wheeler ex CDE vehicle (can’t use those now!) used for singles and tandems, modern steel construction looks like a gig and which I built nearly 30 years ago and a 4 wheeler pairs marathon vehicle that I built 15 years ago. Both have been in very hard use and not at all pampered.
Repairing carriages doesn’t come cheap or easy. I frequently get asked to repair or service vehicles that are second hand and only to discover that they’re not viable. You talk about a carriage flipped and with axles and wheels and brakes replaced. I’m prepared to bet that repair would cost as much as the initial carriage purchase as new. It’s where all the value (and work) is. I’d personally be very reluctant (rare as rocking horse poo!) to believe that the axle and wheels needed repairing but the frame took no high stress impact. No way does a vehicle have a crash that damages those to such an extent they need replacing and yet not sustain stress fractures - particularly on the welds and other points of stress on the frame. Doesn’t happen!
I actually have retained a collection of 4 “apparently” nice vehicles just to show customers the traps they can fall into and what to avoid when going out to buy.
You might want to read this posting as its a salient lesson and gives you the opportunity to learn from others mistakes:
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=4152924&highlight=axle#post4152924
gothedistance -
Not sure what pony batmobile you are talking about but mine is about 300lbs. It is one of the lightest pony marathon vehicles there is. Maybe older or newer ones are more, but mine isn’t heavy.
Sounds like a marathon vehicle, even a used or rebuilt one, is out of my price range; I haven’t seen any marathon vehicles, even used/not wrecked, for under 7000. I am not willing to spend 7000 or 8000 on a driving vehicle.
I was surprised that a frame could be all right in an accident bad enough to require axles and wheels to be replaced. It doesn’t make sense, really. Will pass on the rebuilt batmobile and stick to looking for a gig or similar vehicle. I think that will be sufficient for us for a long time.
How about a Pacific Training and Show Cart, which comes in my pony’s size?
All reports on the Pacific have been excellent. I believe you have a dealer in Missouri.
And you shouldn’t have to shell out that much in order to get a nice vehicle. You want something to start with - something fun and easy that won’t break the bank. Most people here start with the 2 wheeled “tried and true” Meadowbrooks (about $1000 give or take a few bucks), and either work their way up from there, so stay with their first purchase. You can find used Meadowbrooks – generally they are pretty well preserved… except for those with flush hubs. Avoid any used Meadowbrook with a flush hub – the vast majority were used for marathon competition and were pretty beat up.
I was surprised that a frame could be all right in an accident bad enough to require axles and wheels to be replaced. It doesn’t make sense, really. Will pass on the rebuilt batmobile and stick to looking for a gig or similar vehicle. I think that will be sufficient for us for a long time.
Smart thinking.
In the UK it appears (per Thomas) that a lot of people obtain their carriages through their trainers; here in the US, it is different. The majority of US drivers find their carriages through dealers, auctions, driving clubs, and private sale - which is why we’d been advising you to look at established dealers, have a chat with the local driving clubs, or go to the carriage auctions. Your trainer can certainly help you target what is appropriate for your pony, and your type of driving, but I doubt whether you’d find a large enough market to look for what you need through that channel.
How about a Pacific Training and Show Cart, which comes in my pony’s size?
I’d opt for the gig. Looks better, has better features, weight is about the same as the lesser model, and it is more adjustable, and about the same price range. See if the mfr can make one to fit your pony’s measurements.
You can still do better just to get a nice new little stained oak pony Meadowbrook to knock about in, and save the remaining $4,000 to put towards a really nice 4 wheel vehicle that you can take your time finding. 
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4248443]
You first need to decide what you actually want. There’s a huge difference between a pleasure vehicle and a cross country marathon vehicle.
They’re for totally different purposes for a kick off. So: Different construction. Different springing and suspension. Different ride. Different stability. Different weight. Different centre of gravity. Different balance. Different seating. Backstep arrangement.
Your instructor will be able and is best placed to advise and whilst carriages aren’t exactly a mass market there’s not a driving instructor anywhere in the world that doesn’t know how to source and purchase a vehicle for a client. Because the driving fraternity is a tight community group, good vehicles tend to be passed on and round. Typically driving instructors act as an intermediary for purchases and sales.
If you’re short of money and a novice and only want to buy one vehicle until you actually decide if the more challenging and riskier sport of driving trials is for you and your pony, then you’d be better advised to start with a well balanced light weight 2 wheel modern construction pleasure vehicle of gig type. You could use that for presentation classes and it will be perfectly suitable for pleasure driving and even should you go on to great things to private driving showing classes and if it’s a modern construction reproduction vehicle then you could even enter novice CDE classes with it. Because you’ve got a small pony and are a large adult, then you might be better to buy new and spec your requirements to ensure the vehicle fits and is comfortable for you and the pony. If you can’t afford genuine custom build then even the mass produced vehicles such as Bennington, ECC and Kuhlne all provide for a degree of customisation.
Consider investing in a carriage as much more important than investing in a saddle. A good vehicle will last you decades. By example the 2 vehicles I use most often are a 2 wheeler ex CDE vehicle (can’t use those now!) used for singles and tandems, modern steel construction looks like a gig and which I built nearly 30 years ago and a 4 wheeler pairs marathon vehicle that I built 15 years ago. Both have been in very hard use and not at all pampered.
Repairing carriages doesn’t come cheap or easy. I frequently get asked to repair or service vehicles that are second hand and only to discover that they’re not viable. You talk about a carriage flipped and with axles and wheels and brakes replaced. I’m prepared to bet that repair would cost as much as the initial carriage purchase as new. It’s where all the value (and work) is. I’d personally be very reluctant (rare as rocking horse poo!) to believe that the axle and wheels needed repairing but the frame took no high stress impact. No way does a vehicle have a crash that damages those to such an extent they need replacing and yet not sustain stress fractures - particularly on the welds and other points of stress on the frame. Doesn’t happen!
I actually have retained a collection of 4 “apparently” nice vehicles just to show customers the traps they can fall into and what to avoid when going out to buy.
You might want to read this posting as its a salient lesson and gives you the opportunity to learn from others mistakes:
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=4152924&highlight=axle#post4152924[/QUOTE]
This needs to be part of a sticky FAQ post or something. very useful.
Like Price I paid $4500 for mine, lightly used by Bob Cook’s daughter 
And we just paid $3500 for a used ECC Horse Pair carriage in GREAT condition - and that included delivery from CT to NC!
You definitely can find good bargains right now if you know what to look for. I couldn’t believe how many were out there - and how folks were willing to deal - when we were shopping for the horses.
Even new we only paid in the $5000 range for both of our Kutzmann carriages. No need to spend $7000 or $8000 as you can certainly get good vehicles for far less.
We personally prefer marathon carriages (we now have 4: single pony and horse; and pair pony and horse). We drive roads, trails and do CDEs so the marathon suits us even when we’re taking dressage lessons :yes:
?$?$?$
[quote=slc2;4245369]
I’ve seen a lot of advice on this forum to not buy a cheap starter type cart, but I’ve also seen the good vehicles seem to be quite expensive and honestly, in my pony’s size(12.2 hands), rather rare. I haven’t found one yet.
I have a cart that some may refer to as cheap, but I’ve had it for 12 years!! And heavy use to boot! Yes, I’ve had my husband work on it numerous times, but its the perfect training cart to kick around the farm on and to put the greenies to(reason my husband has worked on it many times!). I wouldn’t take it to a show, but, at the time, it was the difference of me driving and enjoying my pony, versus NOT driving and staring at a pony that I had no means to drive. AND, there are better made cheaper carts out there that you can buy new. I still use my cheaper cart just about daily, but keep it maintained. Wouldn’t dream of putting a greenie to my show carts, which are way more expense to repair, i.e., transporting out, parts, finish, etc.
In this economy, there is NOTHING wrong with living within your means. There will always be pricey carts to buy, but you may want to be driving now instead of later. One of my boarders, who has recently taken up driving, HAD to have a marathon vehicle, she just would not be seen in a “cheap” cart.:eek::eek: Absolute made pony. And its banged up. When my cheapy gets banged up, I just pull out a can if spray paint, and do my own repair. :yes: I even have a little duct tape on the seat!!:winkgrin: Same color, of course.
In a perfect world:lol: you would have a cart for every purpose, $$ wouldn’t be an issue. Some of us ‘common’ folk have other responsibilities and/or priorities. There is nothing wrong with buying within your means. After all, it could be the difference between enjoying driving or not. Good luck!!
If you’re not already a CD-L member, it would be worthwhile for you to join and then post a message describing your location, what you’re looking for, and in what price range. Lots of people post vehicles for sale there, and many more might pipe up with a suitable prospect for you.
If you can wait a bit, the next carriage auction in Topeka IN (Google it) is October 2, and Martin’s auction in Pennsylvania comes not much later. You might get a great deal at those, but try to find a trustworthy person there to advise you. Good luck!
Here’s one for you if you can find a way to get it home economically. http://cgi.ebay.com/marathon-country-cart-for-small-horse-or-large-pony_W0QQitemZ250467626281QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a5108ad29&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
^ That actually isn’t a purpose built marathon vehicle at all.
Its construction and design would render it pretty much not fit for that function and particularly when you consider the small pony scenario.
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