Hey everyone,
I’m new to jumping and currently ride a large pony over 18" fences. Im doing small courses, and am struggling with being steady in the saddle. Timing with my two point at the take off is fine, but my landings feel messy. I fall a bit forward and sometimes have to push on my pony’s neck to sit back up. This usually appears near the end of the course when I’m getting tired and pony goes faster over jumps. I’m not really sure if I’m releasing enough (my trainer never really says anything about it, she actually says I need to two point a little longer over the jumps) or if I’m not sitting back up fast enough as we come to the landing. Do I just need to move faster? Release more? I always have to keep short reins with pon b/c she’s strong and goes MAXIMUM strong before the last fence (I have to sit and pull hard to slow her canter) so idk whether or not that’s contributing to release issue (should have had my trainer video me…). Any advice or insight would be very welcome! Karat (pony’s name) is such a lovely ride, I want nothing more than match her competence!
Yes video.
I’m guessing a few things/making some assumptions here, but it may help so I’m going to go with it…
Your “sit and pull hard” comment makes me wonder if you’re riding too far forward on the flat, so your two-point may also be too far forward. My TB gets faster when someone pulls on her mouth, so I try to sit up and use my shoulders and thighs to “whoa” before going to hands. A very good rider once told me to think of reins as the lines on the road to keep your horse inside, not as breaks or a steering wheel. You can drive on the road without lines, but it’s harder to ensure you’re straight.
At 18" your large pony is basically just doing a larger canter stride. You don’t need to be doing a GP release and ending up on the neck. Remember that a two-point isn’t as much forward as it is back. Your hips have to rock back in order for you to maintain proper weight in your heels and the line of hip to ankle.
Here is one of our shorties riders who cleaned up in the eq last year: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h5h4npbe4zghw9l/_ADT0911.jpg?raw=1
Look at her shoulders, back, hips, hands and ankles. Her chest is pressing, and her hips drifting back. There is just a slightly broken line from the bit to her elbows. There is no way that girl is going to be on the neck at landing, because her weight is solid and her leg is on. She’s not using the reins as a balance and her release isn’t halfway up the neck. She’s going to sit, flexing her ankles at the landing and quietly head to her next jump.
How are you with gymnastics/grid work? I’d recomend working quite a bit on a solid combination of bounces and 1 strides. Trotting in the two-point will teach you to hold your position and learn not to use your hands/the neck to balance. When that’s perfect, move to canter.
Gain the confidence to not throw yourself forward over a jump, and I think you’ll find yourself ready to go on the other side.
Over such tiny “jumps” you really don’t need to exaggerate your release and position. Not like you are getting jumped loose, even on a Pony. That hints of a weak position and the need to work on the flat, without irons and have instructor lunge you no irons, no hands (helicopter arms) and other traditional excercises. You also need to work on your anchor-getting the weight into your lower leg and heels.
You shouldn’t be pushing yourself up off the neck over 18"…unless the little stinker is trying to run off with you and take you water skiing around the corner. Also known as the dropped shoulder motorcycle cornering technique.
Either way, you need to strengthen your flatwork basics and position to control Pony or you will be coming off as the fences go up.
Might want to ask instructor about adding a neck strap…or another mount so you can work on yourself without fighting one that takes every advantage of you they can.
I agree that what you describe just sounds like a newer rider trying to jump for your pony. If you are using pony’s neck to push yourself back into the saddle, your core is not strong enough. If you are falling that far forward, you are probably jumping up the neck and your leg may be drifting backwards over the jump. I know because I’m really bad about this and have been working on it a lot lately.
Suggested fixes:
Posting without stirrups as long as you don’t lose your position
Up Up Down exercises at the trot
Trot in two point and hold your arms out in front of you, then to the side, then behind you, then on your head, etc
Practice posting the canter to get a better feel of the rhythm you’ll need over jumps
Also, don’t underestimate the need for strength in your core. Do off-horse exercises to increase that strength. Try planks and other ab work PLUS exercises for your back. I’ve done this over the past year and my landing has been MUCH easier. I can more easily get back to my proper position after a jump. Remember, this IS a sport. We should train for it. 
Good luck.
[QUOTE=Katona;9027932]
Yes video.
I’m guessing a few things/making some assumptions here, but it may help so I’m going to go with it…
Your “sit and pull hard” comment makes me wonder if you’re riding too far forward on the flat, so your two-point may also be too far forward. My TB gets faster when someone pulls on her mouth, so I try to sit up and use my shoulders and thighs to “whoa” before going to hands. A very good rider once told me to think of reins as the lines on the road to keep your horse inside, not as breaks or a steering wheel. You can drive on the road without lines, but it’s harder to ensure you’re straight.
At 18" your large pony is basically just doing a larger canter stride. You don’t need to be doing a GP release and ending up on the neck. Remember that a two-point isn’t as much forward as it is back. Your hips have to rock back in order for you to maintain proper weight in your heels and the line of hip to ankle.
Here is one of our shorties riders who cleaned up in the eq last year: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h5h4npbe4zghw9l/_ADT0911.jpg?raw=1
Look at her shoulders, back, hips, hands and ankles. Her chest is pressing, and her hips drifting back. There is just a slightly broken line from the bit to her elbows. There is no way that girl is going to be on the neck at landing, because her weight is solid and her leg is on. She’s not using the reins as a balance and her release isn’t halfway up the neck. She’s going to sit, flexing her ankles at the landing and quietly head to her next jump.
How are you with gymnastics/grid work? I’d recomend working quite a bit on a solid combination of bounces and 1 strides. Trotting in the two-point will teach you to hold your position and learn not to use your hands/the neck to balance. When that’s perfect, move to canter.
Gain the confidence to not throw yourself forward over a jump, and I think you’ll find yourself ready to go on the other side.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the insight and pic for reference, I need to press my chest forward like that (and obv rock my hips back and sink down into my heels), however I wonder how I can do that without making my back hollow? My guess is more core/lower back strengthening. I’ll ask my trainer about grid work, we usually just count strides between canter poles a few times each direction before moving to jumps. I haven’t trotted in two point for a while… It was difficult but very helpful for balance, trainer just took it out of my lessons by the time I was cantering regularity. Thanks again! 
[QUOTE=findeight;9028091]Over such tiny “jumps” you really don’t need to exaggerate your release and position. Not like you are getting jumped loose, even on a Pony. That hints of a weak position and the need to work on the flat, without irons and have instructor lunge you no irons, no hands (helicopter arms) and other traditional excercises. You also need to work on your anchor-getting the weight into your lower leg and heels.
You shouldn’t be pushing yourself up off the neck over 18"…unless the little stinker is trying to run off with you and take you water skiing around the corner. Also known as the dropped shoulder motorcycle cornering technique.
Either way, you need to strengthen your flatwork basics and position to control Pony or you will be coming off as the fences go up.
Might want to ask instructor about adding a neck strap…or another mount so you can work on yourself without fighting one that takes every advantage of you they can.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for replying! Coindedentally, next week’s lesson is supposed to be no stirrups. We’ll see how that goes :lol: definitely also gotta better maintain my stirrup position so I can come down more easily.
Karat certainly does have her moments, it’s always right before the last jump where she’ll get real fresh or impatient and speeds up. Her strides get bigger and then she just kinda catapults over the jump. That’s when I’ll have to work hard and very quickly to get myself back up otherwise I tilt forward. other than that, when shes even paced and slower over the fences like a hunter should be, I don’t find myself almost popping out like that. it is annoying, we’ll see if I get the hang of her or not I suppose
[QUOTE=Foxglove6;9028127]I agree that what you describe just sounds like a newer rider trying to jump for your pony. If you are using pony’s neck to push yourself back into the saddle, your core is not strong enough. If you are falling that far forward, you are probably jumping up the neck and your leg may be drifting backwards over the jump. I know because I’m really bad about this and have been working on it a lot lately.
Suggested fixes:
Posting without stirrups as long as you don’t lose your position
Up Up Down exercises at the trot
Trot in two point and hold your arms out in front of you, then to the side, then behind you, then on your head, etc
Practice posting the canter to get a better feel of the rhythm you’ll need over jumps[/QUOTE]
I’ll keep that in mind for next week and think about keeping my position instead of shooting forward like that (and video so I can see). Thanks for the flat exercise suggestions And the core ones! I know it’s important in general but I didn’t realize it was so much for the landing. I have to remember to think about using it when I sit up. I’ve been doing a lot of lower ab/back stuff at my gym but I’ve still got a ways to go :winkgrin:
If the Pony is speeding up? You need to slow her down or not let her speed up in the first place. Jumping really is flatwork with jumps in the way, just because there’s a jump doesn’t mean you don’t control her just as you would without the jump. That’s why we stay over poles or tiny jumps as we learn more control, get stronger physically and loose the “OMG a jump” mentality.
Thats OK, we have all been there. It gets better IF you work on it via polishing the flatwork and getting stronger in your core. You need the tools to do the job and that’s up to you.
[QUOTE=findeight;9029242]
If the Pony is speeding up? You need to slow her down or not let her speed up in the first place. Jumping really is flatwork with jumps in the way, just because there’s a jump doesn’t mean you don’t control her just as you would without the jump. That’s why we stay over poles or tiny jumps as we learn more control, get stronger physically and loose the “OMG a jump” mentality.
Thats OK, we have all been there. It gets better IF you work on it via polishing the flatwork and getting stronger in your core. You need the tools to do the job and that’s up to you.[/QUOTE]
The thing is though, she’s no problem on the flat. Her canter stays even all throughout the warmup, and it actually takes a lot of leg to get her there, but once she’s there she knows what her canter should be and goes real easy. It’s only during jumping (about halfway through the work I’d say) where she gets faster as the course progresses. over the past few lessons I’ve had with her, my ability to predict when she’s going to speed up and get her back down has been getting slightly better, but as my current predicament says I’m definitely not where I want to be. As a new rider I still need to get a better feel of my mount, better read what she’s about to do rather than be surprised when she picks up the pace and I have to work quite hard to get her down. I half seat when I ride her, how can I use my core during half seat to better control her pace? How often should I be doing core work? What exercises would be the most helpful? Currently, I go to the gym 3-4 times a week (although this only became a habit a month ago) and do planks, crunches, leg lifts, bicycle crunches, and push-ups when I do ab work. Is there anything else I could do l, particularly for my lower abs? Thanks so much for the input!
A lot of horses can rush towards the end of a course or at the end of a lesson if they are tired. It’s a common evading maneuver that depends on your weaker riding to hesitate to control the horse if it’s moving faster. Could also be a lot of other things but that’s the most likely in my experience.
Do you sit in a full seat sometimes for cantering? How about sitting trot? Both of those will engage your core. How is your half-halt? Well installed or severely lacking? I’d work on that on the flat also. What does your trainer say? How many times a week do you ride on your own versus your jumping lessons?
[QUOTE=Foxglove6;9030038]
A lot of horses can rush towards the end of a course or at the end of a lesson if they are tired. It’s a common evading maneuver that depends on your weaker riding to hesitate to control the horse if it’s moving faster. Could also be a lot of other things but that’s the most likely in my experience.
Do you sit in a full seat sometimes for cantering? How about sitting trot? Both of those will engage your core. How is your half-halt? Well installed or severely lacking? I’d work on that on the flat also. What does your trainer say? How many times a week do you ride on your own versus your jumping lessons?[/QUOTE]
I usually only sit the canter when warming up or when trying to slow her down. When I half halt I usually use the outside rein but I worry that I don’t put enough leg on first because it doesn’t work very well sometimes. My trainer says they’re good when they work and pony comes back. I only have a lesson once a week but I’m going to start helping my trainer out with lessons so I can have some free riding time to myself. What would you recommend I work on during these sessions? Sitting canter and trot for core?
Admittedly I did not read all the other replies, so I apologize if you got this advice already- but part of the issue could be your horse’s jumping style. We have a pony who has BTDT and over crossrails he doesn’t really try. Over a vertical though, he gives a little hop with his hind end and for a rider who is not as stable in their core, this usually results in the rider’s behind getting bumped by the saddle on the back side of the jump and they usually feel a little jostled. The solution for my students is to stay in two point longer until he has cleared the jump, because if they sit up too soon they are popped by the saddle even worse. It’s an odd motion that you have to learn to just go with, but until you get a feel for following the horse’s motion after the jumps its tough. (plus he’s a schoolie so they all have their odd things) I think it might help you to work on two point with and without stirrups at the trot and with stirrups at the canter. In riding, a strong core is super important but you also have to learn how to coordinate all your muscle groups with timing and finesse and that will take time to learn!!! So work on improving but also just enjoy the ride and the jumps!
Define “half seat”. Are you talking about two point/jumping position or the GM definition of sitting in the saddle and just slightly unweighting your seat but closing the hip angle? The only time you are going to be in two point is over the jump because you cannot control the horse in the full two point,
And, yes, you need to practice controlling the pace by sitting in full seat. Flatwork with no irons to get strong. That mare feels you go up out of the saddle and knows you can’t slow her down so, when you get stronger, you are going to need to use correct half and full seat to get around your jumps, at 18", you really don’t need two point. The horse us supposed to create that position when they leave the ground.
I suggest you get GMs book and learn the nuances of full seat, full seat and two point, mastering hip angle to control the amount of weight in the saddle which in turn controls the horses pace. Cost you about what you’d pay for a lesson.
Ask your instructor to help you understand that too, right now you don’t have the tools or position strength to deal with this crafty Pony taking advantage of you.
Have you tried any other barns/instructors for your lessons?
[QUOTE=Bifteklolo;9029996]
The thing is though, she’s no problem on the flat. Her canter stays even all throughout the warmup, and it actually takes a lot of leg to get her there, but once she’s there she knows what her canter should be and goes real easy. It’s only during jumping (about halfway through the work I’d say) where she gets faster as the course progresses. over the past few lessons I’ve had with her, my ability to predict when she’s going to speed up and get her back down has been getting slightly better, but as my current predicament says I’m definitely not where I want to be. As a new rider I still need to get a better feel of my mount, better read what she’s about to do rather than be surprised when she picks up the pace and I have to work quite hard to get her down. I half seat when I ride her, how can I use my core during half seat to better control her pace? How often should I be doing core work? What exercises would be the most helpful? Currently, I go to the gym 3-4 times a week (although this only became a habit a month ago) and do planks, crunches, leg lifts, bicycle crunches, and push-ups when I do ab work. Is there anything else I could do l, particularly for my lower abs? Thanks so much for the input![/QUOTE]
OP a while back I came to the conclusion that my core was lacking and I took to google to help figure out what to do. There’s lots of good core and pilates type stuff on youtube. I use planks, crunches, Russian twists, and leg raises and they seem to have made a big difference; we shall see when I get back on a horse after this lovely government mandated “vacation” I’m on.
Here’s how to work your core while doing leg raises. Start with your feet in the up position and keep your lower back pressed to the floor as you lower your legs. This will take lots of ab/core engagement to do so. As soon as you feel your lower back break contact with the ground, raise your feet back up. Do not lower all the way to the ground if you cannot keep your back in contact with the floor. Over time as you build your core, you’ll be able to get your feet lower and lower before your back breaks contact. This will also help you to keep your hips rocked back in the two point without hollowing your back; you’ll keep your core engaged and be able to keep your tail bone tucked under, lowering your center gravity and keeping it shifted back.
In the absence of the edit function…I need to clarify I meant " learn the nuances of full seat, HALF seat and two point". There are three seats with many small variations within controlled by your hip angle. A competent instructor will introduce that concept very early even if they don’t expect student to be able to master execution for a very long time. Their lesson plan should include strength building and building an understanding of position relative to control. Form to function.
