Trying a New Fertilizer

[Guilherme]

My soil testing indicated that I need to allocate additional resources to soil quality. So I’ve been exploring different alternative, focusing on using a liquid product due to some of the terrain feature I have to deal with. There are a couple of places on my farm where pulling a 5 ton fertilizer buggy is a REAL “white knuckle” experience.

After being frustrated by salesmen would not return phone calls, bombastic claims about benefits, and some really impressive cost numbers when I could get anything at all I discovered a 46-0-0 product available locally. It’s a LESCO product, 098524, and is aimed at the turf industry. It’s granular but a smaller grain and water soluble. It can be applied both dry and wet. It’s bagged so I can use my 350# hopper spread to apply it. That REALLY reduces the “pucker factor” on some of my ground. The application rate is from 80-120 lbs./acre depending on which field I’m doing. No mixing required. The fineness of the grain required some care with the door openings on the hopper.

i brought home a full ton and got 5 acres done yesterday. I just finished up to 20 more acres with the balance.

The pleasant surprise: I was quoted $30.25 a bag which I thought reasonable. When I got there the net price ended up at $22.75/bag. That was a nice surprise!

The only trouble was that on my third run today I noted that I was not putting out what I thought I should be (after several passes the amount was not decreasing; I could not see the spinning platen due to dust from the product. I got down and found a chunk of material the size of a bar of soap had blocked the opening from the hopper. It took a couple of minutes to clear it and I was back in business.

The instructions say this product can also be mixed with water and applied as a foliar spray. I put a teaspoon into a cup of cold water to see what would happen and it mixed without issue. I’ve ago about 40 pounds left and will try it in the spray rig tomorrow just to see how it works. If it works well with my rig than I’ll do some liquid application as I can also mix weed killer with it and save on diesel and tractor time.

This looks to be a good product. I’ll know after a couple of rains just how good and will report back.

G.

[Where_sMyWhite]

G, just curious what plants you are fertilizing and what your expectation is by adding this high nitrogen fertilizer?

Where there any other macroneutrients in what you distributed? (ie, what exactly is in what you spread)?

Just seems to be an interesting choice of microneutrients (the N-P-K distribution of 46-0-0).

Was the ground wet when you distributed it or are you expecting rain in the next few days?

[Guilherme]

@Where'sMyWhite

G, just curious what plants you are fertilizing and what your expectation is by adding this high nitrogen fertilizer?

Where there any other macroneutrients in what you distributed? (ie, what exactly is in what you spread)?

Just seems to be an interesting choice of microneutrients (the N-P-K distribution of 46-0-0).

Was the ground wet when you distributed it or are you expecting rain in the next few days?

No, just urea. I consulted with a county agent and they looked at the soil sample and said I need more but right now, to get a decent turf through the summer, all I need is a solid nitrogen shot. In a couple of months I will retest and this fall, when we do rehab, reseeding, etc. we will do a more complete, dry mix to address whatever issues the soil sample raises.

I’m also running an aggressive herbicide program to knock down the weeds as best I can before they get any bigger than they are.

G,

[Where_sMyWhite]

Nitrogen will, yes, give turf a good shot (why the fertilizer you chose is targeted at turf ). Nitrogen builds a strong plant above ground…

N-P-K - nitrogen - phosphorus - potassium.

Nitrogen is used by the plant to grow leaves.

Phosphorus is used by the plant for root growth as well as flower and fruit development.

Potassium helps the overall functions of the plant to perform correctly.

If your county agent suggested, urea, then I would go with their recommendations. However, sprinkling dry, granular fertilizer on dry ground won’t get the fertilizer into the ground and in proximity to the roots where it can be taken up.

Did your agent also give you herbicide recommendations?

[Guilherme]

@Where'sMyWhite

Nitrogen will, yes, give turf a good shot (why the fertilizer you chose is targeted at turf ). Nitrogen builds a strong plant above ground…

N-P-K - nitrogen - phosphorus - potassium.

Nitrogen is used by the plant to grow leaves.

Phosphorus is used by the plant for root growth as well as flower and fruit development.

Potassium helps the overall functions of the plant to perform correctly.

If your county agent suggested, urea, then I would go with their recommendations. However, sprinkling dry, granular fertilizer on dry ground won’t get the fertilizer into the ground and in proximity to the roots where it can be taken up.

Did your agent also give you herbicide recommendations?

Pretty much the tried and true 2,4,D (amine or ester based upon season; I also use a stuff called Crossbow that has a bit wider coverage) and RoundUp for fence lines or large scale pasture/paddock rehabilitation. We’ve spent quite a while over the years controlling the brambles and blackberries that like to try and establish themselves in the pastures. I’ve got one, small pond with some “margin issues” But we’re still north of 175% of annual rainfall and I’m not man enough to go mucking around the pond margin with a bush hog!!! I’ll likely clean that out in late Aug. or early Sep. when our weather is very dry, the pond even smaller, and I can get into the margins without getting stuck.

Thank you for the comments on fertilizer. That will come in the fall.

G.

[jawa]

@Guilherme Did your county agent feel like the liquid N would work well?

[Guilherme]

@jawa

@Guilherme Did your county agent feel like the liquid N would work well?

They really didn’t say much about it at all. It’s uncommon around here in most ag. settings. It’s much more common in turf maintenance on golf courses, estates, parks, etc. I don’t know whether it’s a deeper understanding than I have or it’s another expression of the “daddydiditthataway” method of thinking.

One reason might be that the three base items (urea, potassium, and potash) are easily applied as a solid material in most instances. One old timer told me you could not apply potash as a liquid but I learned you can. Mixing liquid is more expensive in terms of time and it has to be done right or you’ll have problems with your sprayer clogging up. And the user must interpret their own soil sample and mix accordingly. Our co-op (the primary source of bulk fertilizer here) will do all the math and mixing for you. They have a half dozen solid material buggies, the use of which is no charge if you buy the material from them. They have one, liquid spray rig. A “professional” size rig (at least 100 gal., more likely a minimum of 150 or 200) will cost between $2000 and $4000, depending on quality and will require maintenance. Fertilizer, particularly urea, is a very corrosive stuff. So there are some reasons that solid material might be preferred over liquid in many instances.

Terrain, usage, and quality goals for us are such that a liquid product will likely work. I’m still learning and I’m not ready to “jump in” and do 100 acres exclusively with liquid product. This fall, when we do the full Monty in terms of material, I’ll do most of it with solids and split a couple of fields and do liquids on them. The sit and evaluate results for a year as part of my ongoing SOAP. Pretty “sciency” for aging old dude, eh?!?!?!

G.

[goodhors]

If the animals go back on the sprayed areas soon, you will want to read up on urea side effects of laminitus in hooved animals. I don’t use Urea on our ground because of that. I know several horses that foundered beyond fixing, after using urea on their pastures. No it did not happen immediately, but still caused by the urea use. And some animals never react, or react years later. Urea can affect other hooved species, cattle, sheep, etc.

I spoke to my fertilizer guy about the urea caused problem and he was familiar with it. We use Ammonium Sulfate instead of urea to get the needed Nitrogen in our soil. Price is about equal.

[Guilherme]

@goodhors

If the animals go back on the sprayed areas soon, you will want to read up on urea side effects of laminitus in hooved animals. I don’t use Urea on our ground because of that. I know several horses that foundered beyond fixing, after using urea on their pastures. No it did not happen immediately, but still caused by the urea use. And some animals never react, or react years later. Urea can affect other hooved species, cattle, sheep, etc.

I spoke to my fertilizer guy about the urea caused problem and he was familiar with it. We use Ammonium Sulfate instead of urea to get the needed Nitrogen in our soil. Price is about equal.

Do you have any citations on this? I’d be interested.

A quick and dirty run on Google disclosed no definitive proof. Indeed, urea is unstable and volatilizes quickly. It should be used only when rain is soon expected. We’ve had two and my experiment with this material quickly mixing with water suggests I’m not running any discernible risk. That said, there ARE “slow release” urea formulas that are inappropriate for equine pastures. I don’t use them.

Without specific knowledge of the complete equine care regime it’s likely that any conclusion regarding founder and urea properly used rests on a weak foundation.

Here is one article I found of good provenance and presentation.

http://www.ezrelocate.com/esc/ask_expert/ate_fpmfh.htm

G.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Guilherme

They really didn’t say much about it at all. It’s uncommon around here in most ag. settings. It’s much more common in turf maintenance on golf courses, estates, parks, etc. I don’t know whether it’s a deeper understanding than I have or it’s another expression of the “daddydiditthataway” method of thinking.

Nitrogen is of interest to turf growers as N is used by the plant to grow healthy leaves and the development of chlorophyll. P and K are also used by the plant. P promotes root growth, blooming and fruiting while K plays a part in root growth, stem development and overall plant health.

All of these need to be watered in in some form or another as the roots are where micronutrients are taken up by the plant.

[Guilherme]

Foliar application will result in a quick uptake of nutrients and gives a boost NOW. It appears to be more efficient in some crops than others. Dry application will be not result in the “now” boost but is usually more long term. Most of the “wet” applications are lower in numbers because there is no loss while waiting for the material to work its way into the soil.

Each has it’s place.

G.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Reference from University of California, Division of Agriculture and Natural Resources.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/gardenweb/files/29071.pdf

[Guilherme]

@Where'sMyWhite

Reference from University of California, Division of Agriculture and Natural Resources.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/gardenweb/files/29071.pdf

Thank you!

G.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Guilherme

Thank you!

G.

G,

You have been doing your fertilizer research which is good

A search ‘tip’ to help narrow down ‘quality’ sites searching… put in your search keywords and

site:edu

or

site:gov

and you can narrow down the list of returned sites to, in the first case, educational sites which are generally research based while the second will return .gov sites which are usually pretty correct.

I know as a research-based Master Gardener, I am suspect of generally returned sites on an internet search and am generally not allowed to use them as reference while sites that are .edu can usually be used as a reference.

[jawa]

Tractor Supply sells a 10-10-10 and a few other ratio liquid fertilizers in their more agricultural product area. I have been using the liquid, 1/3 a container to 25 gallons of water, which for the rig I have and the speed I’m able to drive covers 3/4 of an acre of pasture. I mix it with Pasture Pro to get the same coverage for 25 gallons of water. I wasn’t able to do it the first year the horses were home because it was too wet to drive around once it was a good time to apply. I did 3 applications last year. I think it helped? It is a lot easier for me to dilute the liquid in out 25 gallon boom sprayer than to lift and dump the bags of fertilizer in our pull behind spreader which holds around 200 lbs. My paddocks are too small to use the buggy from our co-op.

I was just wondering if the extension agent had an option, hopefully educated, on foliar uptake.

I have the ability to keep horses off of the paddocks until after a good rain. We will be getting some this week. Today and tomorrow will be spent spreading lime and then fertilizing/broadleaf herbicide.

[Guilherme]

@jawa

Tractor Supply sells a 10-10-10 and a few other ratio liquid fertilizers in their more agricultural product area. I have been using the liquid, 1/3 a container to 25 gallons of water, which for the rig I have and the speed I’m able to drive covers 3/4 of an acre of pasture. I mix it with Pasture Pro to get the same coverage for 25 gallons of water. I wasn’t able to do it the first year the horses were home because it was too wet to drive around once it was a good time to apply. I did 3 applications last year. I think it helped? It is a lot easier for me to dilute the liquid in out 25 gallon boom sprayer than to lift and dump the bags of fertilizer in our pull behind spreader which holds around 200 lbs. My paddocks are too small to use the buggy from our co-op.

[I]I bought a jug of a stuff called “Haymaker.” 2.5 gal., advertised to do just under 3 acres (IIRC). I put it out and after a couple of weeks there was improvement but it’s also spring in the TN Valley and that means RAIN!!! So has be growth been Haymaker or rain or some combo? I dunno. I did put it out mixed with 2,4,D and I didn’t get the kill from the 2,4,D that I expected. That could have been “operator error” and maybe it was interference between the products. In any event I’ll have to re-do it.

One of the nice thing about liquid is you can re-do pretty easily.

Indeed, mixing is easier than schleping 50 pound bags!!! I’ll know in a couple of weeks how the 46,0,0 is doing.[/I]

I was just wondering if the extension agent had an option, hopefully educated, on foliar uptake.

They were just sort of “non-committal” which I write to basic unfamiliarity as use is rare around here. Most of the liquid products say mow and then apply, as you would if your doing hay. But for graze where you don’t want to mow aggressively I’m not sure what the answer is.

I have the ability to keep horses off of the paddocks until after a good rain. We will be getting some this week. Today and tomorrow will be spent spreading lime and then fertilizing/broadleaf herbicide.

Rain is NOT a problem for us (except that we are over blessed with it ;)). Since urea is volatile you want to get rain shortly after application. That’s true for solids; I’m not sure about liquids.

We can swap notes again in a couple of weeks after we see just how these things actually work. For the fall, you might just have to get a “strong back and weak mind” to help you with bags of stuff appropriate to your soil sample. That is the best way to get it into the soil and the roots where you want it. Then you’ve got winter for the process to work. In the spring you can sample again and maybe all you’ll need is nitrogen until fall.

If you’ve not already one it, do a soil sample. There are several good videos on how to do one correctly. Then be guided by it.

Good luck to you as we move on!!!

G.

[jawa]

@Guilherme

Rain is NOT a problem for us (except that we are over blessed with it ;)). Since urea is volatile you want to get rain shortly after application. That’s true for solids; I’m not sure about liquids.

We can swap notes again in a couple of weeks after we see just how these things actually work. For the fall, you might just have to get a “strong back and weak mind” to help you with bags of stuff appropriate to your soil sample. That is the best way to get it into the soil and the roots where you want it. Then you’ve got winter for the process to work. In the spring you can sample again and maybe all you’ll need is nitrogen until fall.

If you’ve not already one it, do a soil sample. There are several good videos on how to do one correctly. Then be guided by it.

Good luck to you as we move on!!!

G.

I did a soil sample when I first transitioned the pasture area from forrest to grass (12 years ago). I applied the correct lime and fertilizer at that time. I kept up with the lime pretty well for several years, but I didn’t really worry about the fertilizer because we didn’t have any horses on it at the time. I took another sample, maybe 8 years later, and applied the appropriate fertilizer again ( I was thinking the horses were going to be coming home soon. HA! it took another 3 years for that to happen.) I have a soil probe and took samples before I applied the lime thinking I was going to send it off for analysis and then thought, I really don’t have the money to apply the amount of fertilizer it needs. I figure I’ll keep up with the lime, which it REALLY needs and keep doing the liquid I get from TSC.

I did do an experiment this winter. In a small section of very poorly growing, mostly stilt weed of one of the paddocks I dumped a bag of hydrated lime. My thought was that if it didn’t work, it would only have damaged the stilt weed, and if it did work, I would have grass again. Amazingly, I had the area turn back to a decent bit of grass, without adding seed. So my goal for the spring and again this fall is lime the paddocks fairly heavy and see if that will help. Fingers crossed!! My 2 and a bit acres of paddocks are surrounded by hardwoods. I try to keep the leaf litter from being in the paddocks, but it really is a loosing battle…I just need to lime more.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Hey G, it’s 2,4-D

You are right, if you’re going with a granular vs liquid fertilizer, best if shortly followed by water either by artificial or natural ‘sprinkler’ (aka rain :lol: ).

[Guilherme]

@Where'sMyWhite

Hey G, it’s 2,4-D

You are right, if you’re going with a granular vs liquid fertilizer, best if shortly followed by water either by artificial or natural ‘sprinkler’ (aka rain :lol: ).

Meh, a rose by any other name!!!

When doing this you HAVE to watch the weather. Around here spring is good as it’s rainy. Fall is more problematical as it’s our driest season.

Jawa, do the soil sample. They are cheap ($15 around here, IIRC) and that $15 can save you thousands. Literally.

Good luck as you go foreward!

G.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Guilherme

When doing this you HAVE to watch the weather. Around here spring is good as it’s rainy. Fall is more problematical as it’s our driest season.

Which I tend to forget/not know as I’ve never lived east of the Mississippi

My training is Master Gardener for Maricopa County (Phoenix). Yes, we have rain but this time of year is not it! :lol: