I guess I’m lost on how people think the price is a red flag? 15k seemed too high to me for a horse to have done nothing for years. The horse was being ridden western in somebodies backyard not sitting at a show barn claiming to be winning at 3’6. I also don’t see why everybody is blaming her for getting hurt. She got the first ride out of the way and he was great! Why on earth would she insist on somebody else riding him the second time? Do you have the owner come to your barn the first time you ride the horse after you buy it?
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I didn’t see any wrong doing on the part of OP. It sounds like she did her homework and was as careful as possible.
However - a 9 year old imported warmblood sitting in someone’s backyard, being ridden western and being sold for $15k? Highly suspect to me. I would be assuming there was a major, major red flag. Young, green prospects, not imported, of the “amish warmblood” and Draftx variety aren’t even going for that pricetag.
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I guess that is the point, that this horse was indeed imported.
The price was a red flag for me because of the import costs and his breeding. If he was a US or Canadian bred WB with less stellar breeding, it would have made more sense. I can find a dime a dozen of those for that price around here that are young or have been sitting with no show records.
Him sitting wasn’t the issue, it was the well bred import with the zero history after coming to the US. There are a number of different scenarios mentioned when I first made the post that are plausible, but I absolutely think this horse is where he is because he’s bolted far more than once and he’s hurt people in the process.
The current seller doesn’t know much of anything regarding warmbloods, their breeding, or how HJ sales work, but I think she saw dollar signs when she found out what she had. I know for a fact this horse was purchased for far less money than she is advertising him for, because she mentioned it in passing, not realizing that she was outing it.
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The concept of buy low, sell high is not exactly a new one in the horse world. Or anywhere else, for that matter.
Real estate/antiques/cars/you name it.
It sounds like the seller can be criticized for a lot of things, but capitalism is not really one of them.
Oh not disputing that aspect, every horse I’ve bought and subsequently sold was for a significant increase in price.
Biggest issue here is I think this horse’s dangerous behavior has been displayed prior to my ride and it wasn’t communicated to me by the buyer. That’s why he wasn’t being ridden and the owner did not want to get on him prior to me riding.
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You are trying to do the right thing by the horse by having a very serious conversation with the seller. My heart breaks for the horse who clearly has some type of issue and a very real risk of ending up in a bad situation.
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Yet another update for those invested:
The seller messaged me after two days and asked me if I would consider purchasing the horse after two months of being sent to a specialized trainer for problem horses. She gave me the name of the trainer and his phone number. I decided to give this trainer a call since I was genuinely interested in his techniques and had never heard of him, and it turns out the horse went to his “problem horse clinic” in June of this year, and did the EXACT same thing to him. In fact, it’s on VIDEO on his page!
In fact, I spent an hour on the phone with the trainer, and he told me he told this owner that the horse would absolutely repeat what he did with the bolting, and that he needed extensive rehabilitation. He also stated the owner pulled the horse from day 3 of his clinic for unknown reasons and she never returned. He was labeled as a “ trouble gelding who expresses fear and frustration”
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/nW8HSTv5fRSX9sTQ/?
I of course sent all of this to the owner, who is showing absolutely zero accountability in this and refusing to even acknowledge that this happened before with this horse, even though I presented the evidence and directly spoke with the trainer involved.
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With all this evidence of the horses behavior I think she is setting herself up for a lawsuit if she doesn’t disclose the info to prospective buyers.
Edited spelling!
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This is just so incredibly sad. Sad for the horse, as this is such an ingrained response to pain. Either abuse or neurological or whatever. Sad for OP who got sucked into this cycle of hope, disappointment, pain, and worry for this horse. Sad for whatever person ends up with this horse.
Maybe there’s a glimmer of hope that the seller is starting to game out the real risk of sending this horse on. If seller doesn’t want to sink the $$ into 6 months with that problem trainer and THEN sell for rock bottom price with FULL DISCLOSURE, best thing would be to euthanize him. He’s way too pretty and fancy that some little kid isn’t going to try to hop on, even in a pasture puff retirement situation.
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Not my monkey or my circus.
If it were and I owned the grey Gelding I would pursue a home with full disclosure of his past and offer him free to a reputable trainer.
I don’t think he is an awful horse by any means, he just needs a good vetting and a lot of work pending that.
Most would rather enjoy a horse than go through the work he will take to come around, he may end up a pasture ornament at best.
I wish the horse well and may the owner find some mental clarity regarding the seriousness of the situation.
To not mention the bolting in a trial is so very wrong. Chance favors a prepared soul.
I love bargain horses, this one I would pass on.
I had a feeling you would be offered the horse at a discount, OP. I don’t think she has a lot of interest despite the glory of his bloodlines.
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Is the horse named Finn? Just looking at the comments on the FB link.
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His name is Ghost. Or Colestus Ghost as they call him now. That’s not his registered name with Westfalen, however.
I don’t want to mention owner names but there weee no comments from her on the vid link.
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The horse in the video didn’t bolt, unless there’s something I’m missing. He’s also clearly not sound in the videos.
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Other than euth the only other choice I would consider for this horse is donating to the Montana based trainer The Clever Cowgirl (if she’d even take him).
Those 2 videos are informative.
- Bolting was not triggered by jumps ( I didn’t see any) - but maybe the indoor environment.
- That guy’s one hell of a rider. He’s riding in a halter in both videos? Wow. And I liked how he got the horse to stop in the first one, from the bolt, and just stand while he was petting him.
- The owner took the horse out of the clinic? Whatever for? So odd!
If I were the trainer in that video, I’d take the horse myself and video the work I do with it. I think it would be a fabulous advertisement! If he doesn’t make much progress, he could just put the horse down at that point, since it’s pretty clear that no one is willing to take a chance on it. What a sad situation, overall.
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That’s not what I’d call a bolt. It’s something, but not a bolt. To me a bolt is flat out running fast as hell uncontrollably and it’s like stopping a freight train. This was a bucking fit of sorts. I understand that definitions may vary.
Props to the rider for sitting that one and getting the horse to stop.
The horse isn’t right in his body. His hind end for sure, and something about how straight he gets through the hind leg/hock is a bit odd to me for some reason. I really feel like it was a pain response. The rider shifted a bit and he was off. He did get the horse going “nicely” though.
I mean, it could be all mental, but I do feel as though he has physical issues.
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Agreed, in my situation this happened exactly the same way, but he was in a flat out blind gallop vs moving slower in this vid. Same from the halt, same hindquarters shooting under response. He was actually less “stressed” looking before he bolted on me than in this vid.
The horse spent extensive time in an indoor area before moving to the owner’s property, her friend has a boarding stable down the street and the horse spent most of the summer in her indoor. So not sure if the indoor environment was the catalyst on this one.
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The only way to have any control over this horse’s fate would be to buy him, which I certainly would not recommend.
Other than that, the current owner is going to do whatever she wants to do, which unfortunately does not seem to have any relation to what might be best for the horse or for another potential buyer.
Right now he seems to be suitable as a pasture ornament, or possibly for someone who only wants to do groundwork, since the OP said he seemed to be fine with that.
Unless the current owner recognizes that and markets him accordingly, it doesn’t seem like things are going to go well. Especially now that the horse’s track record of behavior is becoming more documented.
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I would still consider this a bolt, although it was much slower than what happened to me. In my instance, he was at a blind flat out gallop where there was no stop him. But same thing on the halt, his hindquarters popping down, and him launching forward.
And agreed, he does look unsound in this vid, especially on the R hind. He didn’t appear unsound in the least in the both times I rode him and lunged prior each time, I have videos of both lunging and riding portions. I even went back through mutiple times trying to find a soundness source.
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