Trying to find US show record: horse imported from Germany

[RavtoadOH]

I agree, he did a hell of a job staying on!

Owner didn’t originally state that she had him in a “troubled horse” clinic to me. On the first day I went down to look at him she was talking about how she thought some trainer was “mean” and not right for an “abused horse” so she pulled him from the clinic. She conveniently left of out what happened in the clinic in this vid and the fact that the horse displayed dangerous behavior. When I spoke to the trainer on the phone, he said he didn’t know why she pulled out of day 3.

[skydy]

I can see where it would feel like the beginning of a bolt in the video. The horse launched forward very suddenly and without warning. He looks NQR behind, but from what, who knows.

Poor guy. The seller needs to take some lessons in honesty and integrity. How people can try to sell a horse like that with no disclosure is beyond me. She’ll get someone killed, how can she not see that?

[hillary_again]

@CanteringCarrot: shift in the rider’s position: that’s very observant of you. I too noted that the rider’s shift in position seemed to trigger the reaction. That’s a big clue of a NQR physical issue - like a nerve that suddenly pinches, or something similar. Odd that there wasn’t a reaction like this the first time the OP rode the horse. Again, sad situation for this horse…

[endlessclimb]

Yeah he clamped the tail like something shocked him. I wonder if he was introduced to that whole get up beforehand though, because the rest looked like fear to me. The rope slapping around, those rear cinch straps smacking him.

[MHM]

It looked like the guy in the video was using the looped rope as a grab handle. I wonder if he always does that.

[Rumorhasit93]

I wonder if he started being ridden western before or after this clinic. But if he also bolted similarly to the video with OP who had English tack on him…except more of a blind panic, then I don’t know.

I also think it’s interesting that the owner would say she pulled him from the clinic citing an aggressive clinician (I’m forgetting the exact term), yet she gave you his phone number and said she would take the horse back there??

And thirdly, the horse looks to be in pain and half trantering, yet his ears are pricked forward the entire bucking fit. That’s just a really strange thing I noticed.

[endlessclimb]

I saw the same thing with his facial expression. Really strange.

[RavtoadOH]

Yes, the horse has been ridden western for years prior to this video and used to the tack. Current owners ride him western, the prior horse dealer that had him for at least a few months (who the current owner knows) rode him western, and he came from a western barn prior to that.

Exactly what I thought on the trainer component. If he was so “awful” that she pulled her horse from the clinic, why is she praising him now and sending him back there for 2x months of training? I had a very good conversation with him, I’m confident that he’s not using harsh training methods, especially considering he specializes in rehabbing problem horses.

All my tack is English and exactly the same tack I rode him with the first time; down to the same saddle pad used, girth, bridle, bit etc. I brought down mutiple saddles the first time to make sure I had one that fit him and did a thorough evaluation on the fit with just the saddle prior to using one that fit him.

[MHM]

@RavtoadOH

Yes, the horse has been ridden western for years prior to this video and used to the tack. Current owners ride him western, the prior horse dealer that had him for at least a few months (who the current owner knows) rode him western, and he came from a western barn prior to that.

Is this all information you’ve gotten from the current owner? Because she seems to have been somewhat… inaccurate on some other details.

[RavtoadOH]

From the current owner and what I saw on the prior horse dealer’s social media. Dealer has photos of the horse being ridden in western tack and I was able to trace timelines of when she roughly got the horse. There’s videos of him being ridden and one where it even shows him being tacked up in western gear from the dealer. So actual physical evidence I can prove, a year in western tack. Prior to the dealer purchasing this horse, I can only go by what was said by the owner and also what the trainer mentioned on the phone.

[RavtoadOH]

I was describing to a friend what the bolt felt like to me, and I used a similar description. It was like someone shocked him with a cattle prod initially.

[IPEsq]

I’ve seen (and ridden) a horse who had that shocked in the butt response…he was starting to fail neurologically. Happened to me once at the walk when on a long rein, after having a normal trot warmup. He was otherwise an advanced beginner friendly horse, so I could usually stop him in a couple of strides with a quick turn into the fence, as he didn’t spin or anything and wouldn’t buck if you didn’t get off balance. But he would be wigged out mentally following such an incident. It would really scare him. He did buck his owner off, though. He had been a well trained horse with the same owner for 10+ years, so not a case of mystery background. Once neuro issues were confirmed (and some attempts at treatment were not successful), he was never ridden again.

Even with the most compassionate problem horse trainer, if the cause is something medical, it’s always going to be there. You can’t totally train out the prey animal.

The things this grey horse did with his hind legs after he came to a stop were unusual, even for a stressed animal.

[Aussie_2020]

When I watched the youtube video that’s exactly what I thought, he acted like someone just juiced him in the rear. And then the bucking ensues with him quieting down and shaking. Maybe it’s pain or maybe it’s a learned fear response. I wouldn’t call the video reaction a bolt, it looked like a bucking fit from a halt. I’ve been bolted with twice in my riding life and that is the scariest damn thing! The 2nd ride for the OP with the bolt and broken rein is the thing of nightmares.

From the video I wouldn’t call him irredeemable but from the OP’s ride I would. No bolting, no rearing thank you very much.

[MHM]

The interesting thing from the Facebook videos with the problem horse trainer was how relaxed and comfortable the horse looked in the second video.

But who knows how long it took to get him to that point, assuming it was on the same day.

[RavtoadOH]

Curious, what was the actual neuro DX your horse had?

Odd thing about this is when I managed to get myself off the ground, the first thing I did was go up to him and give him a pat to see what exactly happened. He didn’t appear acutely distressed or in pain after the incident, like in the western trainer’s vid. I walked him in hand around the arena after and lunged him, no issues there at all. Probably a stupid move on part considering I had an acute head injury and it felt like my pelvis had been detached from my spine, but endorphins and shock played a role in that one.

[Scaramouch]

I agree that isn’t a bolt in the video, but you can’t really call it bucking either since his hind feet hardly get a few inches off the ground, The horse is being ridden on a long rope in a halter so it seems like he could easily have gotten his head down if he really wanted to get a good rider-launching buck in. And then the trainer got a decent canter (though the way he’s holding his tail in that “after” video doesn’t scream relaxation) out of him in the same ride. Completely bizarre.

OP what do you hope to accomplish at this point? I understand the seller is initiating a lot of communication but it doesn’t sound like she’s going to be convinced to do the right thing here. Would you take him for free (assuming she’d ever offer) and potentially torch a decent amount of money investigating his issues? Because if not I’d go radio silent on her myself.

[RavtoadOH]

I had quite a few exchanges with her after her initial offer and when I contacted the trainer and found the video. Just a lot of mental gymnastics on her part and it was becoming increasingly heightened where she kept denying accountability or lying/dishonesty on her part and then accusatory with me. I gave her the chance to ”come clean” on several occasions (which is really only what I wanted at this point) and that didn’t happen, so I ended the conversation and said that all communications going forward would be from my attorney. Not the route I wanted to go at all, but so be it.

[MHM]

@RavtoadOH

I ended the conversation and said that all communications going forward would be from my attorney.

Just out of curiosity, what do you expect your attorney to do?

[RavtoadOH]

Cant really discuss that here, unfortunately. Attorney is well aware of the situation.

[skydy]

@MHM

It looked like the guy in the video was using the looped rope as a grab handle. I wonder if he always does that.

That’s a good thing, if he does use a rope while riding “difficult” horses in clinics with a halter. He’s obviously ridden rough stock before, and you can’t always read a horse that’s going to do something like that in advance, or believe what the owner tells you before you get on.