I have a old run about 4 wheel buggy I got at a Amish auction. It is in bad need of painting. We have started trying to sand it down, but it looks like someone painted it black over a lacuer finish, so it is not coming off too easy. I dont want to use a aggressive sander for fear of messing up the wood. Any suggestions??
Also I would like to know if anyone has suggestions on installing a brake. The tires are basically bike tires w/ wood spokes covering the metal spokes. Is there a way of installing brakes like on a bike, but on the buggy??? I would like to take it on the road and down hills, but I dont want the horse to feel the weight of the buggy pushing him down the hill, making him go faster than is safe. Suggestions???
general idea of where you are located?
Is this a fine-harness buggy for gaited horses? Sounds very unsafe with wood spokes/covering bike spokes.
Any photos?
I am in Indiana.
I do not have gaited horses. The buggy is purely for recreational use.
Wow it is neat looking. Cute dog too. Would some type of solvent (paint thinner or lacquer thinner) be better than sanding?
Thanks! That was the first time I took him out solo. My hubby took the photo.
We tried a paint stripper, didnt work, the paint is hard. Obviously some paint came off. That photo was before we got started. I want to remove the green vynil in the front, replace it with wood and mount a buggy whip holder and hook for the reins.
Sorry, spokes are not bike spokes, they used the metal rim of a bike wheel and added wood spokes. The bottom portion where the wheels and frame will be Black, the upper part thinking of just staining and lacuer, depends what the wood looks like under the paint. At least the frame and wheels will match the shafts. They were built new by a Amish carriage builder.
I’d take it off the frame and take it to a woodworking shop…your description didn’t tell the whole story. Plus, while it’s off the frame you can see if you can add rear brakes. They aren’t all that expensive. At the bottom of this page are complete brake kits…everything you’ll need: http://www.buggy.com/parts3.html
Finally managed to get some of the paint off. Also found some markings under the seat, can anyone identify what they mean? Don’t know if it gives a clue as to when it was built.
http://s1172.photobucket.com/albums/r562/bucksrider62/buggy/
Holy Cow! I just noticed how short your shafts are. The tip of your shaft is at the tug. You really need much longer shafts…another 18" or so. This is a pony vehicle as it sits. You can buy longer shafts from the same place that sells the brake kits.
This type of light, two-person vehicle isn’t designed to need brakes. It is lightweight enough for the horse to readily and easily hold it back going down a hill. If you are driving on paved roads, simply shoe with borium.
Regarding removal of paint - you need a very warm area for the paint remover to work adaquately. Winter is a poor time to do stripping. I would hesitate to sand unless you use fine grit which would require more elbow grease than the chemicals. Perhaps you can re-try using the stripper and a warmer work room.
Generally numbers stamped into the frame meant that the vehicle was being sent to a repository out of state - like New York. Not sure, however, with something as simple and common as a runabout - it might have been just a mfr run number.
Trakehner is right. You need bigger wheels. Those short wheels aren’t correct for that carriage and probably were put on merely to accomodate a smaller horse/pony. Also ditto the shafts - way too short for your horse.
Replace the green vinyl on the dash frame with black patton leather. More correct for this type of vehicle than wood.
Regarding staining - this family of vehicles was always painted. Generally black with red or dark blue or green running gear with discrete black pinstriping. Sometimes the original owner would order a sporting color like dark blue with running gear to match, pinstriping red or black. But that was very rare and often only for high end vehicles. A buckboard, or a lady’s morning phaeton, is the type of vehicle that was stained and varnished; the runabout was painted. Just some historical notes to consider if you want to restore, rather than simply fix up. 
If you are not going to put a rear brake on this vehicle, I would advise to get a wider/padded breaching strap as the one you currently have is quite narrow. This puts all the wight of the vehicle on a very narrow bit of the animal, something wider would disperse weight better. Your horses neck ties in a bit low putting his straight breast collar right in his wind pipe. You might consider a shaped breast collar, even one with just a slight dip in the front would give him a little more breathing room if you don’t like the look of the super v’s/freedom collars. If you wanted to make it more traditional looking for this vehicle, you could go to a full collar, which would put the pulling weight more on his shoulders and not his throat, they can be tricky to measure though.
Agreed that this vehicle is sized for a pony. If this is something you are looking at keeping for personal use, it might be worth the work and money, but for resale is not likely to sell for too much. Just something to keep in mind depending on your hopes for the vehicle. Most vehicles you see in the pleasure ring today are cut under to allow the front wheels to turn completely under the box of the vehicle so they can’t jackknife and give a tighter turn radius. This would be a difficult vehicle to navigate a cones course or take down the trail due to turning difficulties. It’s much more suited to road driving and there isn’t a huge market for that type of vehicle unless it’s got a well known makers mark to make it a sought after antique.
It could be really sharp though if done up right! I would add a rear brake though. With adults and bigger wheels, this is not really a lightweight vehicle to stop if you get in a tricky situation.
OK a few thoughts
To replace the wheels larger (which would be more appropriate with the size horse you drive) is gonna cost somewhere in the $800 range and you may need new axles to go with the wheels
You would be more comfortable at a higher level and the ride would be smoother - bigger wheels go over bumps better
When I re-did a village cart we bought, I shipped out all the metal parts to a sandblaster who did a great job stripping to bare metal
I got told by a carriage restorer that one way to get the paint off is to scrape. He gave me an old straight and thick saw blade which he sharpened the edge on to scrape. Worked great on the wheels and spokes. Not a good shape for flat surfaces, but I could see something like a thick putty type knife - wide blade - might work
Held at an angle to the paint it would scrape off first the loose and then the tighter paint but not into the wood itself. Then it was sand-sand-sand -prime-sand-sand etc til I got the new paint on
Some people have taken their carts to autobody painters for the final coats to be sprayed on
Always keep in mind that you refinish a cart to enjoy yourself. The cost of your labor will rarely be made up in a selling price
Have fun with the project
Thanks for the tips. When I bought the buggy at a auction in Topeka, IN. it did not have shafts. I took it to a Amish carrage builder local, and he built the shafts, he was told this is for a HORSE. These shafts costed me $300. The photo in a earlied post is the 2nd time he pulled the buggy, and he did it around a field that had various obstacles ( the field was set up for a rider obstacle course and the stuff was still around.) Being his 2nd time, he did real well, I cant say how proud I was of him. The buggy will not be used in competitions or the ring. I hope at some point to ride the back country roads around here.
I did get pads for the saddle area and the breast strap because it looked like it dug into the horse. So I cant wait to hook him up again to try them out.
Intended use is strickly pleasure, riding around the horse campground, and in a field.
I am just trying to make it look better than it did. I have had to quit riding because of arthritis in my hip, I can no longer stand long periods of time in the saddle.
[QUOTE=Trakehner;6096019]
Holy Cow! I just noticed how short your shafts are. The tip of your shaft is at the tug. You really need much longer shafts…another 18" or so. This is a pony vehicle as it sits. You can buy longer shafts from the same place that sells the brake kits.[/QUOTE] That was the 1st thing I noticed but it looks like the horse can be moved back several inches. Need a good side shot to be sure but it looks unsafe as though the shafts could fall out of the tugs as is.
[QUOTE=bucksrider;6100207]
Thanks for the tips. When I bought the buggy at a auction in Topeka, IN. it did not have shafts. I took it to a Amish carrage builder local, and he built the shafts, he was told this is for a HORSE. These shafts costed me $300. The photo in a earlied post is the 2nd time he pulled the buggy, and he did it around a field that had various obstacles ( the field was set up for a rider obstacle course and the stuff was still around.) Being his 2nd time, he did real well, I cant say how proud I was of him. The buggy will not be used in competitions or the ring. I hope at some point to ride the back country roads around here.
I did get pads for the saddle area and the breast strap because it looked like it dug into the horse. So I cant wait to hook him up again to try them out.
Intended use is strickly pleasure, riding around the horse campground, and in a field.
I am just trying to make it look better than it did. I have had to quit riding because of arthritis in my hip, I can no longer stand long periods of time in the saddle.[/QUOTE] They very well could be the correct size shafts for a horse but when you put them on a buggy that is too small it has further to reach. I would not get to crazy putting money into this buggy for your horse as it is too small.
[QUOTE=bucksrider;6100207]
Thanks for the tips. When I bought the buggy at a auction in Topeka, IN. it did not have shafts. I took it to a Amish carrage builder local, and he built the shafts, he was told this is for a HORSE. These shafts costed me $300.[/QUOTE]
I suggest measuring the shaft lengths of from the point of the bolt on the swingletree to the front of the shaft. Take a look at the ADS website table, for a 16 hand horse, it should be 80". For a 15 hand horse it should be 75". Here’s the website: http://www.americandrivingsociety.org/DB_shaft_table.asp
Depending on the length of the shafts as measured, I imagine you’ll need to be talking to your Amish builder about getting you the correct length shafts…they do look like pony shafts. I had a carriage built and I told the builder what size my horse was. He put on short shafts. I told him they were too short, he said, they’ll fit. I was tired and stupid after a 600 mile drive…yep, way too short. I bought a set from the buggy place I recommended for $210…custom fitted to my buggy (which just entails you measuring how wide the fittings are from each other…very simple.
If both of you are new to driving, a 2-wheel vehicle is much much safer.
Please realize we aren’t snarking at you or saying your mom dresses you funny…I think everyone here wants you and your horse to be safe and to have fun while you’re learning.
I looked at your pix again and I think the issue is not the shafts but the wheel size
It looks like your horse could come back in the shafts closer to the carriage
BUT with the wheels so low - you chance having him clip his legs on the running gear since its so low
if the wheels were bigger - everything would sit higher and his legs would go UNDER the gear when he reaches back when trotting out
Another issue to watch for is when you are turning - if you are too close your wheels can clip the horses heels. Never thought about this issue but Lezlie Kozely pointed it out at a clinic when people were first getting marathon vehicles and shortening the shafts to give a tighter turning radius
One idea to consider - I dont know what you paid for the vehicle but you might spruce up the body paint and try to resell as a pony vehicle and take the proceeds to get a new horse sized vehicle
this is more like what that vehicle should look like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Horse-Drawn-Runabout-Carriage-Buggy-/330579169365
if you look half way down this site there is a vehicle like yours - blue wheels - sized more correctly
http://rhinestone-ridge.wikispaces.com/Carriages
just to show that not ALL runabouts were black - my friends also have a natural wood spindle seat runabout in original condition - not uncommon
http://www.colonialcarriage.com/item.cfm?id=765
this is like what your vehicle is sized to fit
http://tappahannockcarriages.com/HTML/custom.html
second picture down
Since the OP is a new driver and her horse is new to driving, I’d really suggest a 2-wheeler for safety.
You really need a cut-under type of carriage if you want to stick with 4 wheels. The carriage is of an older design and has the turning radius of a Cadillac…very wide.
Oh well, what fun, eh? And a lot of us had bought inappropriate carriages for what we wanted…and then had to correct our mistakes. Sigh, part of driving and the lack of a lot of people to help with the initial set-up of cart/harness/horse.
Totally. I’ve been through more vehicles now than i care to admit, and an equal amount of harnesses, all in just a few short years! The driving forum here is nice, they have taught me a great deal, and are rarely ugly about anything. I cant say that about the other forums here at COTH, but there is so much to learn in driving and usually no local help, so it’s great that the driving community is very giving and helpful in general.
I dont know that your carriage is sized for a mini, maybe 12h at largest though. Hard to say without having measurements.
I agree with sprucing up this carriage enough to sell it and get your money out of it, then find a nice used cart. Carriages have a lot of good bennifits, but as a new driver with a green horse, they are easy to jacknife and generally just not as “easy” as a cart is.
