Trying to understand steptococcus zooepidemicus

[saitou_amaya]

I had previously posted a different thread about the ongoing issues I’ve had with my 24 year old gelding with recurring neck abscesses, first starting back in June. He is going to the vet clinic tomorrow to have a guttural pouch scope and flush. I’m trying to better understand the bacteria that continues to culture from this abscess, streptococcus zooepidemicus, specifically how careful I need to be to not spread this in a boarding barn. Right now my horse has been in stall isolation, except when the barn owner allows me to hand walk him outside in the outdoor arena, which no one uses. But the weather is about to get bad again here and walking him outside alone after being inside for weeks is getting…let’s just say sketchy. He is also stocking up really badly and his sheath is very swollen and the little bit of handwalking he is allowed is not really making a difference.

My understanding is this bacteria is an opportunistic infection and causing these abscesses because my horse is older and has cushings. But that Strep zooepidemicus is commonly found in the environment and many horses carry it, similar to staph aureus in humans. What is the probability that he can spread this bacteria to other horses? How does it spread? How careful do I need to be? Would handwalking or lunging in the indoor be acceptable? When would he be able to get turned out with other horses again?

I realize these are also questions for my vet, but I’ve gotten varied answered from the senior vet and the newer vet at the clinic and the senior vet is out on vacation this week. And the answers I’ve even read online have been wildly varied, everything from this bacteria can cause serious and life-threatening respiratory infections to many horses are colonized with this bacteria, no biggie.

Edited to add, in case it makes a difference: this horse has not had any other symptoms besides the abscess. No fever, cough, snotty nose, wheezing, etc. Never stopped eating or drinking, alert and energetic.

[cmdrcltr]

I don’t have answers for you, but I am sorry you are dealing with this. We had strep zoo in our barn this year. It arrived with a pony from Texas in January, and it wasn’t until July that we got the all-clear. Some horses never got it, and others were reinfected after treatment seemed to cure them. Some horses ran a fever; others never did. The most common symptom was a cough and a snotty nose. Horses that were treated most successfully had Exceed (I think that’s right…the immune booster/antibiotic). Early on they were treated with Sulfa drugs; horses would seem to recover and then relapse. After a second culture, they realized the bacteria were quite happy to digest the Sulfa and keep multiplying.

Our vet definitely said it was contact transmission, either direct horse to horse, person to horse (with bacteria on them/their clothes from handling sick horses), or surface to horse (if a sick horse had left snots and bacteria behind). I would say that if you need to hand walk your horse that you would be fine to do that alone in the indoor arena when there were not other horses around. The chances would be miniscule that a later horse would pick up the bacteria off the ground of the arena.

[carman_liz]

I would ask the vet if it can be spread, how? Air born and how far of a distance? Only if other horses are nuzzling or playing with him? If air born, how far do you need to actually reasonable “social distance” him?

I would assume after the surgery he will need to stay on stall rest while he heals so there is no reinfection. Is he ok for shots and are you comfortable aceing him either im or iv ( I ONLY am comfortable giving im…just me being scared of hitting an artery though) to hand walk him more often, and how long of a handwalk is safe for him as he heals? If the vet says you can handwalk him in the indoor, is it not when others are riding…how long should the arena should be closed after you walk him…etc etc?

I would ask the vet who does the surgery and get them to write your horse a doctors note for the BO so they know the vet totally approved whatever handwalking strategy they ok for him. If it is highly contagious then that should be posted on his stall imo.

I would get a copy of the vet instructions, and look over it BEFORE you leave, ask any and all questions you have about any little detail, remember the only dumb questions are the ones not asked. If they need to add notes to his doctors note for the bo or for the instructions to be posted, ask them to print you a new copy if need be.

Do not leave until you are fully comfortable with the take home paperwork, and if he is still sedated or they think eating, drinking, swallowing…could be an issue after he fully is awake, make sure you ask about it before he starts the surgery and stress to them that you would like him to stay until he is doing all those things. That way they aren’t like crap we did not plan on him staying another couple hrs sorry go home…or anything like that.

Not a horse, but my daughter had tonsils and adenoids removed before she was 2 from being sick with sinus junk all the time. They sent her home with me while she was still groggy…later that day had to bring her back for another shot to essentially wake her all the way back up. Almost 24 hrs later, still groggy, crying and still dry mouth and bits of blood trying to come out, because her throat was dry and not healing and staying hydrated and I was worried she would break the cauterizations.

I had to take her back to the surgery center…and told them I was not leaving until something was done even if they had to admit her to the hospital, n good luck trying to force me out with a waiting room full of patients that they would stand to lose because everyone would hear everything going on so help me God.

She had to be admitted to labor n delivery because her veins were so small, after an hr of iv fluids she was babbling away, eating jello, wanting to nurse n asking for juice too.

Saying all that to say, If I had only listened to my gut n insisted on staying at the surgery center till she was awake n able to at least drink something she wouldn’t have gone thru all that. I cannot imagine if it was a horse I had to haul back n forth. Ask all the questions!

Giving your boy lots of jingles and mental scratches n smoochies and you support and all the hugs. I hope it goes perfectly smooth and he is out playing with the other horsies soon, keep us updated plzzzz!!!

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Ghazzu can you weigh in on this? Thanks!

[Ghazzu]

I did a little poking around the recent literature, and there’s not a lot of definitve info out there.

Strep. zooepidemicus (aka Strep. equi subspecies zooepidemicus) is routiely found in the respiratory tracts of asymptomatic animals.
It tends to cause disease in cases where the respiratory tract has been compromised by, for example, an influenza virus, or in foals with a less well developed immune system.

I’m not seeing much information specifically regarding isolation/disinfection protocols for horses with Strep. zoo. though.

[No1]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but can’t strep zoo also cause illness in humans and dogs? Isn’t that enough of a reason to follow biosecurity protocols?

[Ghazzu]

@No1

Correct me if I’m wrong, but can’t strep zoo also cause illness in humans and dogs? Isn’t that enough of a reason to follow biosecurity protocols?

Rarely, but possible.

[saitou_amaya]

I sure hope not because my horse sneezed right into my face today when the vet pulled the scope out.

[saitou_amaya]

Thanks for the input. So, to make this even more complicated, the preliminary cultures came back today as an anaerobic bacteria. Strep zoo is an aerobic bacteria. So either this new abscess in the same exact spot as the old one is a different bacteria or there’s more than one bacteria in there. The final culture is still growing so we’ll see.

The guttural pouch scope did not show anything useful. Both guttural pouches were totally clear and healthy. The vet opened the abscess up a bit more and sewed in a drain. She started him on metronidazole to cover anaerobic bacteria. She thought the tissue within the abscess looked healthy and seemed to think the abscess doesn’t go too terribly deep.

[Omgitsme]

Yep. We had an outbreak at a breeding farm I worked at and I got it from one.

[saitou_amaya]

Well crap. I’m immunocompromised from a kidney transplant and feeling a bit worried now. How sick did you get? What symptoms did you have?

[Texarkana]

I had postpartum endometritis from either strep equi equi (strangles) or strep equi zoo. I was in the hospital for several days.

The culture didn’t specify which subspecies; I think zoo was more likely given I haven’t been in direct contact with a strangles horse in years. But saying I had strangles in my uterus sounds funnier.

[Omgitsme]

It wasn’t bad for me, just felt like I had regular strep.

[Omgitsme]

I am not officially immunocompromised though I may have lupus pending further testing. I also have a weak immune system.
The worst part for me was that the antibiotic they prescribed caused anaphylaxis.

[BroncoMo]

I’m 99% sure I got strep from a horse with strangles once. The one vet I floated this past said it’s not possible, horses get strep. equi, that humans cannot contract it. Well, the ONLY case of strep I’ve ever had in my entire life was a short time after handling a horse with strangles. Not to say that is definitive, but it sure seems that I caught it from a horse.

[Omgitsme]

There is a zoonotic “strain” of strep so that vet was uninformed. Been there, had that

[No1]

I don’t mean to make you concerned. Ghazzu would know better than me how common/likely transmission is.

But, if you practice good bio security and wear a mask and gloves, as people handling the horse in a hospital setting would, you would limit the chance of transmission even more.

[Ghazzu]

@BroncoMo

I’m 99% sure I got strep from a horse with strangles once. The one vet I floated this past said it’s not possible, horses get strep. equi, that humans cannot contract it. Well, the ONLY case of strep I’ve ever had in my entire life was a short time after handling a horse with strangles. Not to say that is definitive, but it sure seems that I caught it from a horse.

Rare but possible–there are reports in the medical literature.

I’ve also heard from colleagues who said they’ve gotten a sore throat after vaccinating multiple horses with the IN strangles vaccine and being sneezed on repeatedly, but that’s just anecdotal.

[BroncoMo]

Yes I’m aware. At the time I was not very far in to my animal science degree so I didn’t have the education/information to question her. Fast forward several years and several upper level biology classes later, I was like “ah ha! She was wrong!”

[BroncoMo]

And I realize my situation is also anecdotal. Though I am not the kind that gets strep every year, or ever at that point. Nor do I spend much time in heavy public places; I truly socially distanced before social distancing was cool. So the two could be unrelated, but that would have been awfully coincidental.

I too have heard of people developing symptoms after IN strangles vaccines. Both instances have made me question the way I have handled strangles in the past. Luckily it’s been years in between and not an often occurrence.