Turnout- Single vs Herd

[HickoryHollow]

Just like the title says, what are your thoughts (or if you have studies that is cool too) regarding turnout? I’m currently working on setting up my pastures, at least on paper for now, and am very back and forth on whether I want to go single horse lots or a herd turnout.

I know there are pros and cons both ways. I’d like to do a group turnout, but my main holdup is injuries- be it a kick to the stifle, ect… If I do end up going with a herd setup, I’m really leaning towards geldings only to try and keep a little more peace.

So what do you prefer?

If you need background on my personal farm to weigh in- I’m looking to run about 9 horses total. About 2-3 personal horses with about 6-7 horses in training. If I do a herd turnout, I will definitely have a smaller lot attached for horse introduction. If I do single lots, I’m thinking there would be single lots side by side for the training horses and I would probably put my personal horses in together in a separate area. Just brainstorming right now and am definitely open to suggestions.

[PlanB]

[QUOTE=HickoryHollow;8485776]
Just like the title says, what are your thoughts (or if you have studies that is cool too) regarding turnout? I’m currently working on setting up my pastures, at least on paper for now, and am very back and forth on whether I want to go single horse lots or a herd turnout.

I know there are pros and cons both ways. I’d like to do a group turnout, but my main holdup is injuries- be it a kick to the stifle, ect… If I do end up going with a herd setup, I’m really leaning towards geldings only to try and keep a little more peace.

So what do you prefer?

If you need background on my personal farm to weigh in- I’m looking to run about 9 horses total. About 2-3 personal horses with about 6-7 horses in training. If I do a herd turnout, I will definitely have a smaller lot attached for horse introduction. If I do single lots, I’m thinking there would be single lots side by side for the training horses and I would probably put my personal horses in together in a separate area. Just brainstorming right now and am definitely open to suggestions.[/QUOTE]

Depends on the value of the horses.

Really valuable horses should probably be on private turnout.

I believe groups (or at least a buddy) is the absolute best thing for most horses, mentally and physically, but if you’re running a business the risk of injuring a high-dollar horse needs to be factored in.

My horses are not particularly valuable and I have always had them turned out in groups. I kind of value their “horseyness” as priority over their “human dollar value” anyways.

[WildandWickedWarmblo]

Depends. My horses have been out in horrible herds with 20 or more horses, some of which were dangerous and mean as hell. My horses survived the herds at those barns. I’ve also boarded where horses were only turned out individually. Although mine got along well. I turn mine out together, just the 2, and they are fine. But it all depends on each horse and whether or not there is a dangerous horse in the herd.

Yes, I know of two horses, owned by 2 different people, where one horse was kicked and her shoulder was broken by the other mare. Supposedly, so according to the BO. Fortunately the mare’s owner is keeping the mare and bought another horse. Always something with horses.

[netg]

When they can be in group turnout, I prefer it. It’s not always practical. Three of my four are alpha types and would fight to the death before backing down. Obviously, they can’t go out together.

My mare who isn’t an alpha could go with my rescue mare, and at some point they will probably be out together, then fed separately (I would close the stall door so they don’t get in there together and have tight quarters become a problem). My gelding had a friend at my trainer’s for a while and loved being out with him, but hasn’t gotten along with anyone else peacefully enough that I want to try again because he can be very aggressive. When my mare’s at my trainer’s place, she’s out in a mare herd with a few VERY high quality youngsters, a Keur Contango broodmare (when she doesn’t have a baby), an FEI mare and a 3rd and 4th level mare. Injuries can happen out there, but no more than I found were happening with her isolated… Sure there are more bite marks and scratches, but not significant worrisome injuries. The biggest issue is they are SO active they all tend toward a bit thin despite more feed than they would normally need - and my mare eats more out there than she would get fat on at home. But they all love it.

[fordtraktor]

I do 2, sometimes 3 horses per paddock in 2 acre paddocks, each with a 12 by 24 or bigger shed. The field I put 3 in has a 14 by 36 shed. One horse goes out alone; he plays rough and kept getting hurt with other horses. I really like this arrangement.

[Bluey]

It depends on the horses in question.

Every horse may like a different arrangement and as you change horses, some may not like that, others like the new horse even better.

There is no way to tell, but you could possibly keep your own horses together, but any other horse in training may ought to be under the best management for that horse.

I assume you will keep horses part time in a stall, turn out is for so many hours a day?
If that is so, single turnout with very safe fences between horses that will be next to each other makes the most sense for the weeks horses in training may be there.

While some studies want to say horses are happier in this or that management, the latest I read was the idillic family group, that really doesn’t make sense for all horses.
Horses are individuals and some like groups, some only a couple or one friend, some no friends.

We had horses that truly were stressed if they had to live with other horses in the same space, kept feeling like they had to be alert all the time.
Those horses were much happier in their own space, thank you.

Could you fix some common pastures, some individual ones and make it all so you can open a few gates and have more horses in larger areas, close gates and that separate those you want by themselves?
Being flexible would be the best of all worlds and above all, listen to the horses, don’t try to shoehorn them into any one theory of what they should like.

[cessi0900]

I have always believed horses, no matter what their monetary value, benefit from herd turnout. They are social creatures and I have always thought they enjoyed it. Still safe to have space for the one who just doesn’t get along with anyone but overall I prefer herd.

I read an article once about some top Dressage rider who always puts her extremely valuable horses out with each other. She said it is more important they are able to behave like a horse than it is to shelter them from getting bit or kicked now and then. I can’t remember who it was though, need to go try to find it.

[dotneko]

I prefer individual turnout. No complaints about horse A tearing horse B s blanket or biting or kicking. They can socialize over the fenceline. Nobody becoming too attached to a pasturemate. Much less drama.
The only group turnout we allow is horses owned by the same person.

[Hulk]

I prefer group turn out. But I also like to have individual turnouts available if needed. I find geldings are the worse for pasture romping and injury. I tend to have a gelding pasture and then mare pastures depending on how they get along. I put pods together that get along and have like needs.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=cessi0900;8485964]
I have always believed horses, no matter what their monetary value, benefit from herd turnout. They are social creatures and I have always thought they enjoyed it. Still safe to have space for the one who just doesn’t get along with anyone but overall I prefer herd.

I read an article once about some top Dressage rider who always puts her extremely valuable horses out with each other. She said it is more important they are able to behave like a horse than it is to shelter them from getting bit or kicked now and then. I can’t remember who it was though, need to go try to find it.[/QUOTE]

Humans are also social animals, but many still prefer their time alone or even without anyone most of the time.

Horses are not humans, but they too come in all kinds of personalities, some like certain horses, some like all horses, some like to pick on others, some like it best alone.
Have seen it all, I would not make rules and make them fit all horses, but have management that can fit all kinds of horses.

If a horse is to stay only for training for a bit, you really don’t want to have to lay off it if he gets a big bite right where the saddle goes, or a big knee or torn eyelid from horse play while fit and full of themselves.

I think it is different if someone has horses that are going to live with each other for long time and get along great, yes, then herd management is fine.

Otherwise, just be sensible and try to keep them safe, if they are project horses or just there for training.
Some of those can be turned out together and that is lovely, just lets not push our luck when we don’t have to take those chances, especially with other’s horses.

[sherian]

Ideal to have set up for both. I have small winter sacrifice paddocks that I turn out in pairs or singly. Summer turnout is 15 acres of grass and they go out as a group (6). I find when there’s grass and lots of space you can be braver about your groupings, small paddocks when they can’t get away from each other and they fight over hay is the highest risk of injuries.

[Palm_Beach]

I’ve always separated by gender, and I think geldings play harder than mares. I never have any problems “keeping the peace” with mares, as long as they are only out with other mares. Now, stick a gelding in the mix, and things go haywire.

[HickoryHollow]

Thanks for the great input, guys.

I’m kind of leaning towards 3 smaller herd setups now. That way there is still proper socialization but easier to manage and move around if I need to. I’m planning to mainly focus on OTTBs, giving them a solid foundation after the track and then selling them. So there will be quite a bit of movement with horses coming and going.

Turnout will be close to 24-7 outside of training/sitting in a stall after grooming prep.

[GraceLikeRain]

I love group turnout when there is a LOT of space (at least a acre per horse). I rarely see issues in big herds where a true group dynamic develops and there is ample space for the low guys to get out of the way. I strongly dislike small herds and pairs in paddocks. That is where I have seen the most injuries and issues.

My late mare and gelding were both the type that needed to go out alone for the safety of other horses. The mare was a bully but never even made contact with another horse to my knowledge. She was a tank and had really aggressive body language so she became adept at moving other horses off of hay or prime grazing. The gelding was clueless and got beaten up over and over again while demonstrating an inability to learn from his mistakes.

[melhorse]

I like to have to option for both. Herd turnout in groups of 3-6 seems to work best for me. More horses in a group seem to fight a little more and so does only having three in a herd for some reason. I try not to switch the horses around too much once they establish pecking order but I will have some out alone if they are injured, are new or need a time out. The small turnouts are also great for those that can not be out on grass for health reasons.

[JLR1]

I think if the groupings are conscientiously planned for personality type and safety it is great…several years ago, within a few days of moving to a new facility I had to put down my older mare because an aggressive mare kicked and broke her leg. The blame was squarely on the barn management who I later found out knew about the aggressive horse.

[sandsarita]

If you have a training facility, I would have a set up for both. You will have some customers who will not want their horses turned out with others, and others who will be perfectly fine with it. And if the horse is there for only a month, or shipping in for lessons for weekend, it isn’t worth the time to acclimate them to a group situation. If it is a group, I prefer 3 horses personally. Keep it small, but not so small that you can’t take 1 away and have a horse freak out.

[normandy_shores]

Also, consider whether your clients (owners of the training horses) will want individual turnout. I keep my guys together (when possible, I have one bully), but when I sent my mare out for training I didn’t want her in their group turnout. It’s one thing when I can decide the dynamics myself and the horses are all owned by me.

I’d perhaps have a mix; one or two big fields, plus some smaller paddocks. I’ve got 5 turnouts, roughly 1/2 acre each (some bigger). I’ve added gates between them so I can open up access to to more area. For more horses, I’d put two gates in the dividing fence line so a horse lower in the rank can’t get cornered.

[Jim_R]

Single turnout here, don’t want any horses hurt. I always did small group before getting married with minimal problems. DW is a Vet and has seen to many hurt turned out with others. Also horses are to valuable to chance it. Retired or Broodmares I would do group, but not any horse being ridden or driven.
No right or wrong, just what you can sleep with.
I would not want to tell client thier horse got hurt by another horse.

[Doctracy]

I don’t mind small groups of 2-3 if feeding is done separately or the horses can all eat their own food.
I lost s gelding who was n a herd with broodmares. He got kicked and broke his tibia in-between the hock and stifle. Since then,herds make me nervous unless they’re very well matched and smaller.