[QUOTE=tkhawk;4682366]
. But I like Peruvians as I have exposure to them and the Mangalarga seem good-at least theoretically. ?[/QUOTE]
As a proud owner of a wonderful Peruvian I say once you ride one it is hard to consider any other gaited breed.
When horse shopping for a gaited horse, I purposely avoided any horses that had been shown and I avoided certain bloodlines that I had bad experiences with as being very hot horses. I’ve found they trip alot more, have horrid feet from the shoeing methods used, don’t adapt as well to group trail rides, etc. I found my guy in Miss and he’d only been used for trail riding and camping, exactly what I use him for. While both his grandfathers were former world Grand Champions, one had excelled in pleasure classes, not the big lick ones. (Paint’s Handshaker)
He’s a wonderful SSH/TW gelding that is a fantastic trail horse, wonderful ground manners, and is very smooth, well gaited and barefoot.
Once I transferred his papers with both associations, I let my membership expire as I too was appalled at the magazine showing the big lick horses.
I’m in a trail riding club and we have quite a few gaited breeds represented and most are excellent trail horses, well loved by their owners and very suitable for their jobs. I don’t think there’s a former big lick among them and probably 75% of them are barefoot. (SSH, TW, MFT, Paso, Peruvian, Rocky Mt, Standardbred, and Ky Mt)
Gaited horses are extremely popular in Fla for trail riding and the market is still very good for them here.
Originally Posted by tkhawk
. But I like Peruvians as I have exposure to them and the Mangalarga seem good-at least theoretically. ?
We looked at Peruvians in the early '90s and were very interested. We visited a breeder in Memphis and rode some lovely horses. We then planned a trip to FL to see more and got hit hard in a blatant “bait and switch” scheme. Given the dollars involved we backed up and didn’t pursue the effort.
About that time I discoved the Marchadors, but it took me five years to find any in the U.S. As trail horses they are excellent. The variety of gait permits comfortable travel over a wide variety of terrain. They are very successful in enduro (a distance riding discipline) in Brazil and often best the Arabs and Arab crosses that normally dominate. I only know of one U.S. endurance rider on a Marchador.
Any gaited breed that begins to concentrate only on one way of going will ultimately begin to have problems.
G.
[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;4704827]
were you there ? when it happened ? then you do recall what was said to the media after the class was over by the “connections” ? right?
and do you consider that movement he exhibits the “epitome” of breeding walking horses? really ??
how you could consider that animal on those merits is beyond the scope of rational thought…
I was not there, nor do I think in our day and age one needs to be present at every event to be aware of it.
“The eptiome of breeding walkers”, eh? Well, if you are considering ‘movement’ as the principal factor when considering a Walker and I have to compare Him to a Big Lick Walker, I’m gonna have to ask the same question ‘right back at ya’, since, how you could consider any of ‘those’ animals on the merits of movement is beyond rational thought.
[QUOTE=angie j;4705572]
I was not there, nor do I think in our day and age one needs to be present at every event to be aware of it.
I suggest you pick your heroes carefully.
“The epitome of breeding walkers”, eh? Well, if you are considering ‘movement’ as the principal factor when considering a Walker and I have to compare Him to a Big Lick Walker, I’m gonna have to ask the same question ‘right back at ya’, since, how you could consider any of ‘those’ animals on the merits of movement is beyond rational thought.
I do not breed to padded stock…never considered it even back then…
regards
Tamara in TN
[QUOTE=katarine;4684278]
…but I can’t find a real footing out here in the real world for good, natural, sound TWHs in competition. I’d have to travel at least one full state away to compete in NWHA, and FOSH? Forget it, not a hint of it here. I can’t up and go to Missouri for a weekend, or KY. There’s not a darn thing I can do with this horse to earn him some recognition. It’s frustrating.[/QUOTE]
I think you summed it up best. It’s for this reason I won’t touch a Walker. Unless you want to trail ride, there is really nothing you can do with them competitively. It’s sad but it’s true. I’m sure they are great mounts for trail and people who are just tired of the bump of the trot but for someone who wants to compete, Walkers are a no go.
[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;4705587]
I suggest you pick your heroes carefully.
I don’t have ‘heros’…
I am aware people have their ‘own’ agendas…
I am also aware that ‘sitting in the front of the bus’ generates needed attention.
[QUOTE=sourmilknightmares;4705594]
Unless you want to trail ride, there is really nothing you can do with them competitively. I’m sure they are great mounts for trail and people who are just tired of the bump of the trot .[/QUOTE]
The thing is that is ‘exactly’ what they are bred for. I do have back issues and a smooth ride is the key element. I don’t need a big showy head shake or a high step. I hate to see a breed not succeeding for doing exactly what it was meant to do, and for being distained as a circus side show. It’s sad realy.
[QUOTE=angie j;4705602]
[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;4705587]
I don’t have ‘heros’…
I am aware people have their ‘own’ agendas…
I am also aware that ‘sitting in the back of the bus’ generates needed attention.[/QUOTE]
good then you can proceed with caution:)
that’s all I am suggesting:)
Tamara in TN
[QUOTE=sourmilknightmares;4705594]
I think you summed it up best. It’s for this reason I won’t touch a Walker. Unless you want to trail ride, there is really nothing you can do with them competitively. It’s sad but it’s true. I’m sure they are great mounts for trail and people who are just tired of the bump of the trot but for someone who wants to compete, Walkers are a no go.[/QUOTE]
Don’t you first have to ask, “What do you want to compete in?” 
Walkers, and the vast majority of other North American soft gaited horses, are “road horses.” They were bred to get a rider from here to there over a variety of ground in a safe, sane, and comfortable fashion. This means that a lot of “competitive” work is just going to be beyond them. Not because they are bad horses but because they lack the conformation, way of going, or temperment for the competition.
Can a Walker work a cow or jump a fence or play at some “dressage?” Some can; some have. But that’s not why Mr. Dement and his ancestors and contemporaries bred them. What the Walker is today is descended from a specific type of horse designed to give a specific type of performance. Stay within the boundaries of that performance and you’ll do fine. Go outside and you’ll likely be frustrated.
I’ve no comment at this time on Watchout or the program surrounding him.
G.
No, I agree. A well-bred, modern Walker is fabulous at doing what he was bred to do same as a cutting bred Quarter Horse might not make the best hunter. The person I quoted was talking about how she DID have a Walker that was dressage worthy and could not find a place within her state (or the next over I believe) where she should show her animal. That is why I would pass on a Walker, even one that could do exactly what I wanted, because I would have great difficulty finding anywhere where I could compete. It’s sad and hopefully one of those things we will see change one day.
[QUOTE=retento;4704509]
Actually, NWHA has a program called the Lifetime Superior Achievment Program that allows you to earn points in Versatility, Model, English Pleasure and Western Pleasure. You keep up with the points yourself and can earn points in any show that has a licensed judge. FMI: http://www.nwha.com/lifetime.html[/QUOTE]
Are you totally sure on that?
NWHA won’t recognize USDF judges unless they are also NWHA judges. Fat chance that person exists. I can ride under USDF judges all day long on NWHA tests in USDF shows…and NWHA won’t recognize the effort.
I’ll give your assertion the benefit of the doubt and take a look at their lifetime achievement award, maybe there IS a loophole there…
Sour milk, you are talking about me 
I have a very cool 8 YO Pusher/Coins Hard Cash horse we bought for my SO when I was quite green to Walkers. I never intended to show him, He was supposed to be a trail horse. Aye aye aye he’s too much horse. So he’s turned out to be a super quick study with a very pretty look and the makings of a true, beautiful canter and fabulous medium/flat/running walk. He is too much horse for my SO, so he’s ended up being my horse.
So, no, I did not start out wanting to show him, but no traditional walker trainer around here could help us. I tried, I’ve surely tried. When I took a Larry Whitesell clinic the bell went off in my head. I found a dressage trainer to help me clean up his step pacey way of living and get right with God, LOL, and by golly he is starting to look fantastic. Because “Pushers are idiots” and he has so much bad modern Big Lick blood I really would love to have an avenue to show people that with time and training, even a Pusher can be an all right kind of horse ;). I’m stubborn that way.
I hope the Three Phase Event they’ve got going in KY will catch on, perhaps we can make it up there next year. I can’t do it this year, he’s not ready. We have found the local dressage groups open to adding the gaited tests, and it will be very neat to see their eyes bug out when Chippy comes to town
[QUOTE=angie j;4705618]
I hate to see a breed not succeeding for doing exactly what it was meant to do, and for being distained as a circus side show. It’s sad realy.[/QUOTE]
Angie, please understand that it is NOT the breed that is “distained” it is the people who turn the horses into the circus side show.
IMHO it says worlds about the walker breed that most haven’t turned into vicious, insane animals when they are turned into big lick horses.
I knew only one once who would attack his trainer every chance that he got. Didn’t blame him a bit and even he was kind and gentle with all other people he came in contact with. They are very forgiving animals.
Where the money goes the corruption will follow. Ask anyone eyeballing the WP videos of QHs about what a QH looks like, you might get a weird answer.
I don’t think anyone is dismissing the breed as a whole. Well, ok, the folks that peel off and create a zillion offshoots and call them breeds, maybe. And they want your dollars, too Look at the McCurdy’s: they ARE TWHs. And some of them pace like all get out
You certainly don’t see gaited horses getting the cold shoulder if you trail ride or like to ride the roads. That is what these horses were bred to do- go on down the road in a smooth fashion.
[QUOTE=pj;4705720]
Angie, please understand that it is NOT the breed that is “distained” it is the people who turn the horses into the circus side show.[/QUOTE]
Let me explain that…
Where I am from there aren’t any Walkers, or very few, so, what is it that the ‘adverage Joe’ knows about Walkers? I’m sure it’s very different in many States, but when Tennessee Walker comes to mind the sad truth is the Big Lick horses are a World Class representative of the breed. That is reflected onto the breed itself.
[QUOTE=katarine;4705714]
. When I took a Larry Whitesell clinic the bell went off in my head. [/QUOTE]
I’m taking a Larry Whitesell clinic this summer. How did you like it?
[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;4704827]
make quite sure you have principles in common first,before you break out your check book,as you would with any political statement
were you there ? when it happened ? then you do recall what was said to the media after the class was over by the “connections” ? right?
and do you consider that movement he exhibits the “epitome” of breeding walking horses? really ??
how you could consider that animal on those merits is beyond the scope of rational thought…
Tamara in TN
For those of us who don’t know would someone please fill us in on this?
[QUOTE=angie j;4705854]
I’m taking a Larry Whitesell clinic this summer. How did you like it?[/QUOTE]
He is a very good clinician and trainer. He wants horses ridden in snaffles. He emphasizes ground schooling of lateral flexion, dropping the face to the ground if cued to truly let go of tension. He emphasizes steering with your seat/body language. He emphasizes getting the horse working through his back and using his body more effectively not dragging themselves by their front end. He demo’d some long lining and longeing in side reins, but not very much. I don’t think he’d planned for it but made room for it when asked.
I am not sure who his trainer is that he works with, but I THINK it is Dominique Barbier, whom I am given to understand may not be the very best for ‘classical dressage’. I can say that what Larry offered me, maybe b/c it was very low level and basic… helped me quite a lot, and helped me turn loose of the notions I had, concious and unconcious, that gaited horses are different. That fueled my desire to find good local instruction, and here we are.
If you want a strong emphasis on ‘dressage’, then Larry may not be the strongest. If you want tools in your toolbox to help improve gait and supplemness and less tension, then it is money well spent. I fell like I’m splitting hairs in saying that but hey, we walked for three days, no lateral work, whereas now my warm ups involve some SI, some LY, stuff like that, we never get anywhere near. But I was the only person in the clinic with even a vague notion of what those even were, so maybe it was partly the hand he was dealt, don’t know…
PM me if I can tell you more. I do consider that weekend money well spent.
[QUOTE=Tamara in TN;4704827]
make quite sure you have principles in common first,before you break out your check book,as you would with any political statement
were you there ? when it happened ? then you do recall what was said to the media after the class was over by the “connections” ? right?
and do you consider that movement he exhibits the “epitome” of breeding walking horses? really ??
how you could consider that animal on those merits is beyond the scope of rational thought…
Tamara in TN
I wasn’t at all involved in TWHs at the time Champagne Watchout made his initial “appearance” alongside the Big Lick horses, so I don’t know what was said to whom, or by whom.
While I do think it was great that they were able to get CW into that class, I would have to agree that he’s not exactly the epitome of the natural-shod TWH. He till looks a heck of a lot more comfortable to ride than the Flailing Freak Show, though. :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=katarine;4705714]
Because “Pushers are idiots” and he has so much bad modern Big Lick blood I really would love to have an avenue to show people that with time and training, even a Pusher can be an all right kind of horse ;). I’m stubborn that way.
I hope the Three Phase Event they’ve got going in KY will catch on, perhaps we can make it up there next year. I can’t do it this year, he’s not ready. We have found the local dressage groups open to adding the gaited tests, and it will be very neat to see their eyes bug out when Chippy comes to town
http://www.threephaseevent.org/[/QUOTE]
I saw the video about the TPE last year and was intrigued. . .would love to go see it in person some time! Maybe, with the NWHA having the opportunity to showcase the “natural” breed at the WEG later this year, it will generate more interest in the breed overall and other TPE-type events will begin to spring up.
A couple of years ago I spoke to a guy at Equine Affaire in Columbus, OH who was working in one of the competitive trail ride booths. He did say that, although he was an “Arab guy,” the TWH’s tend to do very well in CTRs while Endurance is still pretty much dominated by Arabians. It doesn’t bother me that TWHs are “only good for trail riding,” because they are really really good at it!
My boyfriend also has a “Pusher” horse - bought as a two year old at the auction down in Bowling Green, KY. Being relatively new to Walkers and not really knowing much about the traits of many of the bloodlines, it still surprises me to hear negative things about that line after meeting this horse. The bf’s Pusher horse is a beefy 17hh gelding, with one of the most laid-back and gentle temperaments I’ve ever seen in any horse.
Unless he sees a chipmunk. . .but we won’t go there. . .
