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TWH: "No Market for the breed. . ."

Endurance and Trail Riding
#81

There are some ugly truths that the gaited horse show world is subject to that insure that soring will always be there, forever and ever, amen.

Truth number 1: The gait can be “fixed” by soring. Soring is the quickest, easiest, cheapest way to a show-winning gait. It doesn’t matter what class the horse is shown in be it padded, lite shod, flat shod, or barefoot and butt naked. If it is being judged on its ability to gait, soring becomes an issue.

Truth number 2: The rich owner is paying the pro trainer to W-I-N. They are not paying the pro to love the horse. They are not paying the pro to dilly dally and take a long time to get to winning either. Win, win NOW, and win BIG. Oh yeah - and- win with whatever we tell you to win with, even it it can’t gait its way out of a paper bag.

Truth number 3: The pro trainer’s reputation and ability to make money hinges on WINNING and WINNING BIG. That AIN’T gonna happen if you don’t sore your horses (see truths #2 & #3).

Truth number 4: The judges will continue to look the other way. Why is this? Because the judges’ continued ability to obtain judging assignments hinges on their popularity and abiltiy to draw the big barns to the show, equaling the judges’ ability to garner entry fees for the show organizers, so that the show makes money. If the big trainers don’t show up because they know they won’t win under a certain judge, the whole show is a failure. So judges will be selected based on their ability to pull in lots of entries.

By the way, dog shows are EXACTLY the same way. I should know; I have a Japanese Chin at my feet begging for corn chips that finished his championship with straight 5-point majors. Bam Bam Bam, just like that. One long weekend and done. That’s what you pay the pro handler for. To win. It’s the pro’s job to know the judges and present the dog to a judge they know will pick the dog to win. I’m not interested in paying entry fees when I know a judge doesn’t like the type of dog I have. I’m not interested in paying milage for a pro to haul my dog all over the country if they aren’t winning. I only keep paying if they keep winning…

#82

And…to add confusion to the mix, there are a myriad of organizations and rules that dictate what’s a legal lite shod shoe at this show, vs that show. It’s not anything like USDF, or NRHA, or or or. Each little pocket of shows/organizations can have it’s own HIO and therefore it’s own rules. It’s crazy and b/c it’s so scattered, I can’t fathom how it can realistically grow. A horse that’s legal on Saturday at one show would not be wearing legal shoes on Sunday.

I wish I’d really seen the writing on the wall when I got started looking into the TWH. I knew it was a mess, but surely not the hot mess it actually is :wink: The hot mess will hopefully die off in time, but I’m not holding my breath. But honestly I’m happy with the horses I have- my Pusher guy is a gem, my monster filly, also a Pusher GD but mellow, is priceless. And my SO’s little SSH is worth his weight in gold to me.

I think I’ll just go ride my dang horse! I DID learn that NWHA WILL honor points earned at the USDF shows that are kindly offering me a chance at the NWHA dressage tests, in their lifetime achievement program. That is cool. And yes, that’s dressage with a little d c/o G’s education of me LOL.

#83

[QUOTE=katarine;4708009]
I DID learn that NWHA WILL honor points earned at the USDF shows that are kindly offering me a chance at the NWHA dressage tests, in their lifetime achievement program. That is cool. And yes, that’s dressage with a little d c/o G’s education of me LOL.[/QUOTE]

Hey - that is good news! Glad that tidbit worked out for you Kat!

Myself, I just want to go on a trail ride. If I can find an organization that will let me count miles or hours and turn it in for some sort of yippie skippie at the end of the year, great. I might try a CTR some day… If not, oh well. I just enjoy my time in the woods on the horse. Ribbons? I don’t need no stinkin’ ribbons. :lol:

#84

The Big Lick gait has always been a “manufactured gait,” not a “trained gait.”

Sadly, even in the Light Shod and so-called “sound horse” venues the gaits look much more “made” than “trained.”

A pacy Walker can be trained to peform an acceptable running walk in 90 days to six months (depending on the horse and rider). Or you can get a pacer to walk in an hour if the farrier knows what he’s about. As noted, somebody in it to “win” will like take the second path.

ElysianFields gave an excellent sketch of Walker history. I’d add that when you look at a stallion or a mare don’t just look at them, but look at their sires, dams, and siblings. In looking at the line as well as the individual you can reduce the “box of choclates” problem.

G.

#85

Here’s a newish one (or at least one that has come across my field of vision recently)

http://www.actha.us/

Easier than a NATRC CTR, it sounds like, and there seem to be more rides available.

#86

[QUOTE=katarine;4708009]

I think I’ll just go ride my dang horse! I DID learn that NWHA WILL honor points earned at the USDF shows that are kindly offering me a chance at the NWHA dressage tests, in their lifetime achievement program. That is cool. And yes, that’s dressage with a little d c/o G’s education of me LOL.[/QUOTE]

Glad the info was useful to you. TWHBEA offers a somewhat similar program in their Supreme Versatility Program. The TWHBEA doesn’t separate out the different Championships you can earn but this year they revamped the way in which points are accrued so it is a little easier to earn points when class sizes are small. www.twhbea.com I think it’s under programs/Versatility

The only issue I have run into at dressage competitions that allow the use of the NWHA tests is that they have separated the TWH’s out into a separate class instead of placing them in say an Intro or Training class with everyone else. If you are the only TWH showing, it will be hard to earn points if you are not competing against anyone else

#87

Membership is dropping. A lot. In the past four years, TWHBEA memberships have gone from 18,457 to 10,942. It just baffles me that the leadership at TWHBEA seems so bent on continuing to support and promote the “Performance Horse” that it will sacrifice all else and run the whole organization into the ground.

It was WORSE with Arabians, which I was involved with for many years. The breed organizations catered only to the halter and saddleseat markets. It got to the point where USEFUL horses w/ half a brain and solid conformation were very hard to find. There truly would be a market for good pleasure horses if the breeders would produce them, but the vast majority of breeders are either trying for either a halter star or a saddleseat horse that is way too hot for the average pleasure owner, or they are backyard breeders that don’t know what they are doing.

To be honest, I see more useable, sane horse coming out of the TWH market. At least the horses are bred for riding rather than to be pasture ornaments. That being said, I am very glad that big lick is no longer prevalent in Ohio! I like high motion, but the horse should have it naturally or it is worthless to me.

#88

Thanks for the info. I don’t care about points and winning so much as getting a chance to get an informed opinion about how we’re doing. I’m not going to invest enough money and time and travel to win anything from either association in terms of points, I just like getting out and getting a score and some feedback.

#89

[QUOTE=katarine;4711997]
Thanks for the info. I don’t care about points and winning so much as getting a chance to get an informed opinion about how we’re doing. I’m not going to invest enough money and time and travel to win anything from either association in terms of points, I just like getting out and getting a score and some feedback.[/QUOTE]

What kind of “feedback” are you looking for? Something for the horse, for your skills, or some combination?

If it’s for the horse you’re kind of out of luck if there are no breed/type specific shows or shows with classes for “gaited” horses. Even then unless you’re competing against just Walkers I’m not sure what the quality of any feedback might be.

If you’re looking for opinions on your skills and how they might be enhanced you can get this from about any “rail” show, dressage/Dressage test, etc. Open shows often have equitation classes. In some ways these are not for the faint of heart as a good judge will call it like they see it. That can be a real “ego bashing”!!! :wink:

Some of the biggest East Coast gaited shows are held at the VA Horse Center in Lexington. It would be a haul for you but might be worth it if it advances your goals.

G.

#90

I’ve found shows, G, I’m fine: The BDCTA spring fling show will let me ride my TWH on NWHA test and I’ll be judged by USDF judges. I know I can’t possibly place well as I’m in the same pot of horses as the trotting horses… but I can get feedback on our halts, circles, transitions, and straightness, etc. And maybe I can show ‘them’ that a TWH is a nice using horse and can be improved with low level dressage.

In addition, a local three-barn group is adding a gaited division and again we’ll use NWHA dressage tests and we’ll be placed against each other, in our own division. There are some Pasos coming to one of their shows for sure, so it’ll be interesting to see the mix of trotters and walkers and pasoers :slight_smile:

I was disappointed to see that NWHA wouldn’t consider recognizing either of the above, as they’ll lack NWHA approved judges, but that may change in time, I’m not too worried about it.

The little local ‘open’ shows I’ll use just for giving him chances to continue to learn/remember that he can relax in a group, that we are not in a race, and he does not have to hurry. They don’t offer equitation classes. I’ll use the dressage shows as my avenue to get feedback.

#91

I guess I misunderstood the problem. Sorry about that! :slight_smile:

Sponsoring groups can get really parochial about recognizing results from other sponsoring groups, even if they are not competitors. IMO this is not good business. Nor is it good for the equine industry at large. I understand the necessity to maintain standards, but sometimes folks just seem to get carried away.

Good luck in working with what you can find. :slight_smile:

G.

#92

You may be suprised. Even when separated out from the trotting horses, we have won High Score for the show several times. I think a good judge will always appreciate cadence, suppleness, straightness, etc, no matter what type of horse it is.

#93

[QUOTE=Ta![](ara in TN;4706881]

but tell me then, how much “being padded” is ok, with you personally ?

Tamara [/QUOTE]

LOL… personaly… I wouldn’t do it at all. But there are lots of things I wouldn’t do that I wouldn’t judge another for doing. I don’t have shoes on my horses either, but if someone wants shoes I’m not gonna tell them its ‘wrong’.

It appears I’m not gonna breed this year anyways… wanna see why?

[IMG]http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/iredrogue/2907a.jpg)

[IMG]http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/iredrogue/_MG_2923.jpg)

[IMG]http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/iredrogue/_MG_2923.jpg)

And the truth of the matter is… I don’t care if his parentd ‘did’ anything in the show ring. There are a lot of people out there who just want a good horse.

#94

<bump>

I’m not sure if any of you have had a chance to see the What a Horse program (http://www.whatahorse.com), but it’s basically a “news” program about what’s going on from week to week in the TWH world.

My boyfriend (also a TWH owner) has Dish Network and has DVR’d a couple of episodes, which is a nice alternative to watching the Natural Horsemanship gurus trying to sell their overpriced training gadgets on RFD-TV.:lol:

The show does give a “nod” to the TWHs that are doing well in flat-shod competition, or recent sanctioned TWH association trail rides. And they have little snippets of video footage from shows and commentary about the winning horses. In one episode, they had a special guest who was a riding instructor at a private school, and had quite a few TWHs in her program.

However, I’d say that the majority of the program that I’ve seen continues to highlight padded/performance horses with plenty of video from recent shows. The commentators just gush about the horses being shown, and I can’t help but sit there and shake my head and wonder how anyone can look at the flailing forelegs and crawling hindquarters and think that’s how a horse is supposed to move.:no:

What really got to me, though, was an episode that aired last week during which one of the show’s hosts said that many people who said they didn’t want to show padded/performance horses (because of all the bad things they’ve heard) later realized it “wasn’t so bad after all” and eventually moved from flat-shod to padded.:eek:

Is the TWH world still that backwards?:cry:

#95

[QUOTE=JollyBadger;4937535]

Is the TWH world still that backwards?:cry:[/QUOTE]

Yes.

G.

#96

[QUOTE=chancy deal;4697437]
I bought my handsome “big lick” after he had been big licking it around the show ring for 10 years. I bought him from a show barn to save him from that life. I’ve always considered him my rescue horse. :slight_smile: (And Ive never given the TWHBEA a dime. He’s a gelding & I dont care whose name is on his paper)
Now he’s a mountain pony and he loves it.
I’m all for buying TWH’s. To RESCUE them.[/QUOTE]

This is a great idea. A lot of money is raised to save horses from slaughter - it would be just as noble to campaign to save one of those top Big Lick horses…wouldn’t that be funny? Suddenly the top BL stallions start to drop out of the biz and get retired by their benefactors :).

#97

You need to take another look. About 10 years ago the Arab registry figured out they had REALLY shot themselves in the foot way back when and set about changing things in a BIG way.

Rules for showing halter changed after it became obvious (by the drastic drop in halter entries) the public was disgusted with the old guard.

Entries for hunter/jumping/dressage/sporthorse climbed so far/fast that AHS started a whole new annual show for those disciplines – and it became wildly popular.

The registry really promoted Arab racing, making an affordable option (compared to TB racing) for those who love that sport.

Endurance riding – well, enuff said about that – Arabs pretty much own that sport.

And meanwhile (luckily) there are have been enough dedicated breeders of CMK, Davenport, Spanish and other sound & good minded strains of “using” Arabs who have continued to produce these types of horses. Most didn’t show (too expensive) or even advertise alot, but I was very surprised how many good-boned, sane, nice-moving Arabs I found in my area (PNW) when I went looking.

Yeah, still alot of junk, but I think the breed registry realized its mistake and is changing the direction/marketing.

Sounds like the TWH registry needs to do the same. I know with the Boomers all getting creaky, gaited trail horses are gaining in popularity. It seems to me that with some 4+ pages of posters just on this thread, you guys are going about it in the wrong way by baling.

Instead why not join the current registry, get all your like-minded friends to join and try to impact change from within.

Either that or start a new registry – I always said the best way to get rich was to start a registry or a religion…:wink:

#98

I have yet to send my TWH papers in on my mare. I do not wish to give the registry my money.

#99

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;4937953]

Instead why not join the current registry, get all your like-minded friends to join and try to impact change from within.

Either that or start a new registry – I always said the best way to get rich was to start a registry or a religion…;)[/QUOTE]

Another great idea. In the same line of thought, I wish the Mustang people would do that and get all those Mustangs off the govt. payroll so the breed could actually be legit, and improved.

#100

Sad, Sad and Sad…the “big lick” has it’s followers, so did women with bound feet in China…very sad.

My mule has a TWH mom, he has a wonderful natural TWH gait (with additional sound effects when necessary)…all done without pads or fake training. He even gaits with his blaze orange Renegade hoof boots on the trail…now that’s a look to bring a tear to the old TWH guys.

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