In 40+ years of breeding I have had one twin pregnancy (two healthy foals)…undetected despite the vet check…but in the past three years…we’ve had three. The vet pinched two and we lost both pregnancies. The other produced a live, HEALTHY foal an a 10" mummy. This is making me crazy!! Who gets the blame…the stallion or the mare with two many follicles?? We live cover…so the vet is not to blame!! There were three different stallions involved.
Same mare?
She is ovulating two follicles.
But I’m not sure why the vet can’t successfully pinch one…
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Three different mares!! Vet??? We are in “nowhere” Oklahoma. Not much selection!! This is supposed to be the best. The pinch worked…other expired!! We did everything he said…Regumate therapy followed pinch. Follow up ultrasound.
Mares checked ultrasound for cysts prior to breeding?
Pinched prior to 16 days post ovulation?
Rechecked at day 28 for a viable conceptus?
Perhaps for better answers from the forum, could you chronicle the entire sequence of pre- and post- and when the conceptuses were lost?
Perhaps also listing all your feeds/hay types, too as they might impact pregnancies?
How disheartening this must be for you. Sorry, and I hope others will chime in.
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Three different mares and three different stallions… all on the same property? Is there anything environmental that has changed before/in the last three years?
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No changes!!! Just still in NE Oklahoma!! Custom milled feed, Bermuda and/or native grass hay…no supplements.
Three possibilties:
- Vet is incorrect about twins in the first place
- Vet’s pinching technique is substandard and is at fault for the complications.
- Completely random crap luck.
Option #3 most likely, as unsatisfying an answer it is.
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Thanks…I have a LOT of #3!!!
You mentioned that some is custom milled. What does the milling company process besides horse feed?
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All sorts of feed…but, Horse feed is in a separate milling area. No issues with this mill and contaminated feed!!
Likely the mares are hyper ovulators. What are you breeding? My vet said it’s common for warmblood and older mares. My mare ovulated three follicles, two were of quality, only one implanted last year.
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All are TB and Irish crosses in various percentages of TB!! No less than 25% TB. Mares are 12 to 15 years old…none with twinning histories. Our Ok. weather is strange…mares cycle most of the winter…then shut down in the spring when we would like to breed. I went back through my records to see is any of the mare had gotten Lutelyse (sp) before breeding and they had NOT!!
Are the mares being given any hormones? Soy? Are lights being used?
You said they cycle all winter then shut down in spring. Are you helping to start them back up again with anything?.
I would wonder why their bodies don’t shut down in the fall and rest in the winter?
Sorry about your luck, hope it changes soon!
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Is the current vet the same trusted vet you’ve used for many years, or someone new?
No soy, hormones, lights. Same vet. Just good feed, hay, 80 acres of pasture, stabled 2x daily for meals. Well cared for. Eyes on owner!!
At this time you had two twins that were pinched and lost the pregnancy and one undetected twin that foaled a healthy foal (plus mummy). You also never had other twins in the past? So your vet never had to pinch them for you?
Based on that, I would not be pinching twins…
And I know that will get lots of flaming, but if you lose them when pinching, don’t. One may fail to implant or not develop anyway without causing loss of the viable foal.
Are you trying to breed before or after April 15th?
Some mares have difficult seasons before the solstice in March and even out about 30 days after; saying this since you can’t use lights on pastured mares.
I bought a 14 year old TB mare that had foaled twins the prior year and those were the only twins she had.
Wishing you luck.
Good point!! We start to breed around May first…Live cover. Weather is too sucky to foal before that. I agree with the pinching…I spent good money to lose the whole pregnancies!! I was shocked to find the tiny mummy foal when I checked the placenta. Our mares are all over 16.2…so their bellies where not particularly large. It just seems strange to me to have such a run on twins!! I was wondering if it was a mare problem or a stallion problem, but there really isn’t a pattern!! Just my typical bad luck!! Got two more mares due…can hardly wait to see what goes wrong with these!! We were missed by a “too close” tornado last night…today is frigid, windy and raining!! Did I mention how much I hate Oklahoma??
Three time’s the charm.
Wishing you a very successful foaling/breeding season this year and for the next 3!
I hope more people chime in though. My advice may not be good at all.
Many years ago (probably about 15 years ago?), an experienced repro vet I worked with made an offhand comment that she expected double ovulators to become more prevalent in the gene pool in the future thanks to increasing dependence on AI for most breeds. Her theory was that they are easier to get in foal AI (especially when using frozen or fresh cooled of dubious quality), and she strongly felt there was a genetic link/hereitability with the trait from her own years of breeding. She postulated that use of AI over time would naturally select for the double ovulating mares, who would beget more double ovulating fillies, etc. etc.
She also said double ovulating is more prevalent in TBs than any other breed. I’ve never fact checked that statement. But the other thought of her theory was that the influx of American TB mares with warmblood stallions would increase double ovulating in registered WB mares.
I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with any of the vet’s statements posted above, but I thought they would be interesting to throw out there for the sake of discussion. I don’t think either would be a likely explanation for the OP’s experiences, especially not with the mares being “older” and without history of twinning prior to recently.
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Very interesting. We’ve bred TB’s for over 40 years, now breeding ISH’s with 1/2 and 3/4 TB blood. I’ve wracked by brain trying to come up with a common denominator…but can’t find a link between the mares involved. Nothing else has gone right since we moved to Ok. 12 years ago…guess this is just another glitch!! Thanks for the theories!!
