Two horses dead in four races at Preakness

[RodeoFTW]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8673256]
You forget that well-bred American TBs are sold all over the world to race and breed. Those horses are not drugged.

Quite a few racing people are against drugging–even against Lasix. Drugging seems to be just as prevalent in human sport as in racing. Perhaps we shoudl just abolish ALL sport because it’s dangerous and people will do almost anything to win.

I seem to recall that I’ve seen statistics that the vast majority of horses in kill pens are QH and Paint types. The Amish certainly don’t have any compunction about sending their used up horses to killer auctions. TB Racing probably puts more effort into retirement options than any other horse sport.

If you have an unbiased set of numbers, I’d like to see them.[/QUOTE]

That doesn’t change the fact that plenty of race horses do get drugged and do get worked harder at a younger age than most other sport horses do or ever would be.

I’m talking about sport, not breed. Please don’t confuse the two.

So I can get into a debate with you after you refute the figures? No thanks. I’m good.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8673179]
Exactly. They start those horses young, drugged up, and fast. My BO used to work on the track (tbs and stbds) and she hates tbs now because of all the bad experiences with them. I don’t blame the horses though, I blame the environment and culture.

I mean, what other equine sport is so notorious for dumping its rejects to the kill pens in such high numbers like horse racing does? .[/QUOTE]

That would be the AQHA… by a landslide.
And as Viney wrote, the AQHA has not instituted [to my knowledge] a single rescue or rehoming venture like the ones the TB industry has.

To say that you are speaking of a sport and not a breed, when the only breed that races in these races that we are discussing are of one breed, TBs, is kinda disingenuous.

A lot of bad can be said about the TB industry, but keeping it factual and honest is the better way to argue the points that do apply.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=minnie;8673197]
Anyone else think it was odd when Nyquist gave up the rail in the stretch to go outside of Exaggerator? I’ve watched several times and I can’t figure it out.[/QUOTE]

I thought he moved him to the higher path on the track where the footing was less sloppy to get him out of the slop that is deeper on the inside rail…

[S1969]

Racing done well - is a beautiful thing to watch. And those high-end racehorses are very valuable (financially and emotionally) so I don’t think that trainers tend to be careless or callous when evaluating track conditions and the danger to the animal & jockey.

But, I think most of us have also seen the seedy side of racing, and that’s hard to watch. I have lived next to a “breeder” who had high hopes of gettin’ rich quick…and it was horrible.

Unfortunately, because of the potential for big wins - I think it will always attract the seedier breeders & trainers as well- and they might be more inclined to push their horses at any cost…and dump them without a backward glance when they lose or break down.

So, I have mixed feelings about racing personally, but I wouldn’t paint the whole industry with the same brush.

[Jim_R]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8673393]
That would be the AQHA… by a landslide.
And as Viney wrote, the AQHA has not instituted [to my knowledge] a single rescue or rehoming venture like the ones the TB industry has.

To say that you are speaking of a sport and not a breed, when the only breed that races in these races that we are discussing are of one breed, TBs, is kinda disingenuous.

A lot of bad can be said about the TB industry, but keeping it factual and honest is the better way to argue the points that do apply.[/QUOTE]
The sport, not the breed. Are you aware of other breeds that race?
Let’s just start with SB’s. They do a great job rehoming, where would the Amish get their horses if not for the SB industry.

[CVPeg]

[QUOTE=minnie;8673197]
Anyone else think it was odd when Nyquist gave up the rail in the stretch to go outside of Exaggerator? I’ve watched several times and I can’t figure it out.[/QUOTE]

They mentioned earlier in the NBC broadcast how the rail was deeper. Even in a later interview with the Desormeauxs, Keith said he wondered what Kent was doing going to the rail, but Kent said just prior to the race he carefully walked from the rail out, and knew he would be ok in the 2 path. Evidently the rest thought they needed to stay well away from the rail.

[Jim_R]

[QUOTE=S1969;8673408]
Racing done well - is a beautiful thing to watch. And those high-end racehorses are very valuable (financially and emotionally) so I don’t think that trainers tend to be careless or callous when evaluating track conditions and the danger to the animal & jockey.

But, I think most of us have also seen the seedy side of racing, and that’s hard to watch. I have lived next to a “breeder” who had high hopes of gettin’ rich quick…and it was horrible.

Unfortunately, because of the potential for big wins - I think it will always attract the seedier breeders & trainers as well- and they might be more inclined to push their horses at any cost…and dump them without a backward glance when they lose or break down.

So, I have mixed feelings about racing personally, but I wouldn’t paint the whole industry with the same brush.[/QUOTE]
What percentage do you think these high end horses make up of the industry?

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Jim R;8673409]
The sport, not the breed. Are you aware of other breeds that race?
Let’s just start with SB’s. They do a great job rehoming, where would the Amish get their horses if not for the SB industry.[/QUOTE]

LOLOL

Yes other breeds race in other races, but not in these races that we are discussing. You know, in the thread you started about the Preakness?

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Jim R;8673411]
What percentage do you think these high end horses make up of the industry?[/QUOTE]

I know it’s very small. That’s why I have mixed feelings. My mare’s sire was a black type stallion, and the number of offspring that never made it to the track is over 100. And my mare was bred 6 times and ONE of her offspring raced 1 time. :no:

But, I won’t suggest that running horses in the mud is the problem with the racing industry.

[CVPeg]

[QUOTE=Jim R;8673409]
The sport, not the breed. Are you aware of other breeds that race?
Let’s just start with SB’s. They do a great job rehoming, where would the Amish get their horses if not for the SB industry.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever seen how horses are cared for by many Amish?!? Or how they end up right back at the auctions when their animals are extremely broken down? Wow, you’ve really now proven to me how little you know.

And you haven’t heard of quarter horse racing?!?

I have also sold or was consulted in sales for real estate/large farms more than once to city dwellers who are going to be the second coming to the horse industry. Eventually they proved they knew nothing, but bred warmbloods, TBs, and even herds of paints - all creating numerous additional members of the equine family that they had no idea what to do with once they hit the ground. Many lost or gave up their farms when they finally realized what they entailed labor and $$ wise, and had no answers when I asked what happened to their horses. :mad:

Back in the day, Thoroughbreds didn’t have the competition from warmbloods, etc. that they do today. You would find showing overrun with well trained TBs. What has changed is the short cut now in training horses, and the lack of fashion that threw TBs under the bus, for more expensive WBs.

Most TB breeders I’ve known take extraordinary care in making selections. And I’ve never seen better care of a horse than at the track. Of course there is the opposite - but I have seen barn after barn of well cared for TBs, and trainers/staff that treat them with kid gloves - they are their passion. My retired guy for example - he was so spoiled - he still expects the star treatment and his place in the pack at his barn now.

And given the chance, although turned out in a large field daily for hours, is still dying to drag me through the path into the huge wide open field so he can emulate his days as a turf sprinter.

They truly are no happier than when they have the chance to run, especially if they can engage others.

And no other part of the sport drugs? Huh? Sharps containers at shows??

[scierra]

[QUOTE=Jim R;8673409]
The sport, not the breed. Are you aware of other breeds that race?
Let’s just start with SB’s. They do a great job rehoming, where would the Amish get their horses if not for the SB industry.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, great job rehoming STB. Let the Amish buy them, that’s a good home. It’s just a longer trip to the “truck”. The Amish are very well known for trading in their mode of transportation at NH or Shipsy.

[Jim_R]

[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8673413]
LOLOL

Yes other breeds race in other races, but not in these races that we are discussing. You know, in the thread you started about the Preakness?[/QUOTE]
We are not just discussing the Preakness, if we were what does the QH and Paint horse have to do with the Preakness? I also brought up a track right up 95 that was in real bad shape and that is SB track. A track that even the horsemen do not like do to the footing. Nothing like racing on a surface like concrete, but the money is big there and that is what it is all about, not the welfare of the horses. Some real fast times too.

[Jim_R]

[QUOTE=scierra;8673425]
Yeah, great job rehoming STB. Let the Amish buy them, that’s a good home. It’s just a longer trip to the “truck”. The Amish are very well known for trading in their mode of transportation at NH or Shipsy.[/QUOTE]
I hope you know I was being sarcastic.

[ASB_Stars]

[QUOTE=Jim R;8673409]
The sport, not the breed. Are you aware of other breeds that race?
Let’s just start with SB’s. They do a great job rehoming, where would the Amish get their horses if not for the SB industry.[/QUOTE]

You’re being funny, right?

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Jim R;8673432]
We are not just discussing the Preakness,.[/QUOTE]

Chronicle Forums > Forum > Discussion Forums > Racing > Two horses dead in four races at Preakness

[Jim_R]

Now it can be buried in the racing forum where only the people in the industry can justify anything they do to win a race. I guess it is about 10%,maybe lower in the industry that care about the horses that are not making them money.:mad:

[LaurieB]

[QUOTE=Jim R;8673161]
Is the sport any different than others? Yes
Look at the age they start these horses, look how they break down. Anybody that starts horses at the age they start TB race horses does not care about the well being of the horse. It is all about where the big money is and how quick can I start to recoup it. 90% of trainers are the lowest of low and 99% of owners don’t have a clue.
I bred a mare and got the baby to the track, never again, knowing what I know now. DW deals with these scum bags everyday and knows what they do to these horses. Trainers that are chemists by trade, come on, horse racing is a disgusting business. You meet an honest, good, caring person in the business it is a big deal.
Funny we were discussing the young horse classes in Dressage the other day and we think they are asking to much from 4 and 5 year olds in the young horse classes.
I did not want to go down this road and get in this discussion but to late now.
Somebody saying a filly broke both it’s legs on a perfectly good track. Imagine that a FILLY breaking down.
Nobody that starts horses at that age cares anything for the well being of the horse.[/QUOTE]

Speaking as someone who has been involved in Thoroughbred horse racing and breeding far longer and in greater depth than you, I take offense at every single thing you said.

Seriously? Your expert opinion is based on the fact that you once attempted to race one horse? If you hadn’t given up so quickly you might have met some of the good people in horse racing. But I guess it was easier to quit and spout off here than to take the time to learn what the TB industry is actually all about. :rolleyes:

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=CVPeg;8673422]
Have you ever seen how horses are cared for by many Amish?!? Or how they end up right back at the auctions when their animals are extremely broken down? Wow, you’ve really now proven to me how little you know.

And you haven’t heard of quarter horse racing?!?

I have also sold or was consulted in sales for real estate/large farms more than once to city dwellers who are going to be the second coming to the horse industry. Eventually they proved they knew nothing, but bred warmbloods, TBs, and even herds of paints - all creating numerous additional members of the equine family that they had no idea what to do with once they hit the ground. Many lost or gave up their farms when they finally realized what they entailed labor and $$ wise, and had no answers when I asked what happened to their horses. :mad:

Back in the day, Thoroughbreds didn’t have the competition from warmbloods, etc. that they do today. You would find showing overrun with well trained TBs. What has changed is the short cut now in training horses, and the lack of fashion that threw TBs under the bus, for more expensive WBs.

Most TB breeders I’ve known take extraordinary care in making selections. And I’ve never seen better care of a horse than at the track. Of course there is the opposite - but I have seen barn after barn of well cared for TBs, and trainers/staff that treat them with kid gloves - they are their passion. My retired guy for example - he was so spoiled - he still expects the star treatment and his place in the pack at his barn now.

And given the chance, although turned out in a large field daily for hours, is still dying to drag me through the path into the huge wide open field so he can emulate his days as a turf sprinter.

They truly are no happier than when they have the chance to run, especially if they can engage others.

And no other part of the sport drugs? Huh? Sharps containers at shows??[/QUOTE]

Just curious, what about quarter horse racing?
What do you mean?
Do you know about quarter horse racing?

Barrel racer’s numbers are growing by leaps and bounds.
They are snatching any and all that is thru running.
In fact, they are not enough for the demand, they bring very nice prices.

Now, maybe that is what you mean, that they end up becoming a barrel racer, with the best nutrition they can have, all kinds of vet care and chiro and massage and swimming, but oh, my, they are not but “barrel racers”.

I will say, I was training and racing horses, TBs and AQHA, for 12 years and in all that time, how lucky, never was where a horse broke down.
Now, you hear when that happens, the whole track becomes very somber, it is a tragedy for all, but it really, at least decades ago, was very rare.

I don’t know about racing today, but since all horse care has improved, I would think that is reflected in horse racing also.

Not sure why those horses died, but one important difference, they were under the eye of everyone, unlike when some horse out in a pasture has an accident or out competing where it doesn’t make the news.
I wonder if that has something to do with why all the furor now?

[mht]

So, I don’t care about the two of my four racehorses, that are currently at the farm, to allow their minds to grow into their bodies, the five I have at home, four of which are OTTBs, (and only one of those not having been my own racehorse) ranging in age from eight to 25, the two that I board out and have as riding horses?

I guess I am the scum of the earth.

[vineyridge]

Actually there are race circuits for QHs, Paints, Arabs, and even Appaloosas in America. The QH racing circuit is infused with big money, corrupt and cartel associated foreign owners, corrupt trainers (don’t forget how many TB trainers came over from QH Racing–Baffert, D. Wayne Lucas, the Assmussens, etc.), and huge purses. They are even called QHs because of quarter mile racing.

Just remember that nowhere else in the world are drugs allowed in TB racing, before you paint all TB racing with such broad brushes.

I would suspect that low end horse people in every horse discipline in America are willing to use drugs to win if they are allowed and can get away with it.

I don’t think horses dropping dead after the race is over is racing’s problem. Is a stallion dropping dead after a breeding, breeding’s problem? Unfortunately TBs do have a higher propensity (I think) of dropping dead from cardiovascular events after exercise than other breeds. But that propensity would be in the whole gene pool which is so limited.