Tying a horse for a long time

[ise]

What hooey - that a horse won’t trailer well if it can’t be tied to the outside of the trailer…that’s ridiculous.

Our horses travel fine - and they stay in the trailer at shows or whatever - unless we have rented a stall. I would NEVER tie any of our horses to the outside of a trailer at a show and leave them. There are too many ignorant oblivous people at shows who have NO KNOWLEDGE of true horsemanship - as well as those “free spirited dogs and kids” who irritate the crap out of all of us and make a point to create problems.

If any of you have ever seen a horse break it’s neck - you’d stop with this bullsh** about tying horses to trees or poles or whatever for hours.

And to those on here who recommend tying the head high - you must be totally ignorant of studies showing how damaging this is to horses airwaves. They now recommend that you make sure - especially when trailering - that you clip to the high rings on the halter not the ones by their nose so they can move their heads around. Do some research on the atlas-axis of the horse’s poll and then you might see how recommending this tie high and forever concept may be the root of other problems your horse may have NOW or in the future. …that is if some freak incident doesn’t kill him.

And I love the concept of having a KNIFE handy in case you have to cut the nylon halter - obviously this person has had a freak out situation with a horse in that situation. Are strangers supposed to “pack knives” so they can cut panicing horses loose from trailers at horse shows? or just watch them break their necks?

And I could care less what breed the horse is - I’d never leave a tied horse un-attended - it’s not true horsemanship.

[mzpeepers]

Jeez peeps- I feel all cozy around you now- yes- I don’t tie my horses- let them run free and feed them carrots all day- plus I ride a motor cycle and gaze at my horses- who perform passage and piaffe and spanish walk in the pasture- while nibbling on carrots…and if they ever die - I revive them quickly…with magic words and gibberish…

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You MUST give me the secret to the reviving cerimony!!! Oh…the possibilities…

This thread has gotten ugly enough. Let’s lighten up, shall we? Even though there were things said that were hurtful and mean, let’s try to put a fun spin on things. this is after all a BB board not real life.

[Sandy_M]

@feisomeday

In fact, dressage types use the term CIRCUS as a derisive term. that is, being held in contempt or ridicule.
A

While I’m sure that’s true in some instances, I doubt Tina Konyot would appreciate that remark. Her family is/was heavily involved in dressage/circuses, and yet, wonder of wonders, she’s done quite well in the competitive dressage world.

[nhwr]

I know you have a hard time thinking things through, ise, so I just thought I’d point this out.

If you ever have to cut a horse loose that is tied, you’d never cut the halter. That would be extremely dangerous. You’d probably get injured yourself or injure the horse. You should cut the rope that the horse is tied with that way you have a way to restrain the horse. Thankfully I have never had to do this or seen a horse break its neck because by the time my horses are tying this way, they are pretty well trained to yield to pressure at the poll. But since the horse’s safety is always my first concern, I have thought it through.

Also leaving a horse inside a stationary trailer for hours isn’t really a very good idea in some parts of the world (like where I live). Without the circulating air caused by movement, they because like ovens. Much better to take the horse out.

As I said earlier, the real goal of this exercise for me is to develop some ability in the horse to pacify themselves and to foster self assurance. If a horse has these qualities, they are much less likely to have a problem when tied in the first place. If you aren’t interested in these qualities, feel free to dismiss it as a method

[fiona]

this is after all a BB board not real life.

Eeeuuuw! Didya have to blurt that out so sudden??? It came as a terrible shock!

[mzpeepers]

@fiona

Eeeuuuw! Didya have to blurt that out so sudden??? It came as a terrible shock!

Oh no!!! I’m sorry!!!

Sabine, quick!!! Where is that reviving cerimony for pete’s sake? Fiona here needs some help!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[BornToRide]

I’m a little puzzled by one thing though…I understand that horses can spook and pull back, but the handler better be able to get through to them when they call out “Whoa”. If you have a horse that does not respond to verbal cues that you got even more problems that should be addressd, not just tying…to me a horse that totally looses it simply is not a safe horse to be around. Horses are reactive, but they also have some sensibility or they would not survive. I know that in some cases it can be diet related - they are just pinging out of their brains from too much energy. In such a cases you may just be out of luck…

[MyReality]

By the way, I said many times I hack my horse. Hacking is great for a horse. Competitive trail riding do mix with dressage. I never say those two things don’t mix. I am saying, someone who trains at the GP level don’t usually do competitive trails, i.e. my point is don’t brag how to do high school dressage if that’s really not your specialty. We’re all here to learn from each other.

No I want to see PI ride a GP dressage test. Not tricks, no disco music. An honest GP level dressage test complete with tempi changes, canter piroutes, piaffe, passage, extended trot etc etc. I am not saying he can’t do it, I want to see it because this world is not that big, a rider and horse with such talent and operating at that level I should be able to find out who he is no problem. This dressage world is not that big.

I don’t fricking care if a horse could juggle 3 apples standing on his two front legs. That’s not my discipline, sorry. They should open a circus/trick training forum here. And I say it in all honesty because it is a very valid discipline. To teach horses do tricks, is a specialised skill… people should get together to share tips and exchange ideas.

Dressage people are humble usually… because we know how hard it is, how long it takes, and what a journey it is. And all those specific things we ask for, like correct tack good footing we insist because true, some of us are a bit of perfectionist. We share similar visions. I don’t know any loud mouth in this industry even those at the very top representing their country in the Olympics and officially earn the right to be loud.

[BornToRide]

So you are saying that cross training is generally not a good idea because of what? Potential injury to the GP horse?

[fiona]

I don’t fricking care if a horse could juggle 3 apples standing on his two front legs.

… but if i saw it i’d be awfully impressed.

They should open a circus…here

You mean this isn’t the circus? my, this is turning into one horrible day i had no idea.

[fiona]

So you are saying that cross training is generally not a good idea because of what? Potential injury to the GP horse?

In all seriousness i’d have a pretty hard time explaining to my vet and my owners how their horse got injured on a CTR or standing on a pedestal! They’d be livid!

[BornToRide]

I was more thinking in terms of owners doing the CT…I can certainly see your concern from a trainer’s perspective…

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

Ahhh now its the circus/trick insults

Its a common misconception that people who are not/have little education in Dressage seem to cling too. Generally these are the same people who are stuck in the lower levels all their life.

I dont have a lot of time today but I will touch on the highlights for you…

Ever heard of Chuck Grant? Considered the “Father of American Dressage”

Chuck Grant is in the USDF Hall of Fame. Trained 17 horses to Grand
Prix and competed them as well. More than any other American as far
as I know. This could have changed recently, but one thing for sure.
I am fairly sure that no ther trainer took such a variety of breeds
to Grand Prix. Appaloosa, Connemera Pony, Arabs and quite a few
Saddlebred and Saddlebred Crosses. From what I have heard the
Saddlebred crosses were his favorite. These were also the same
horses he did his Exhibitions/“tricks” with. Imagine that!

"For ten years, from 1969 to 1979, Grant led an exhibition troupe, the Horse Capades, which included some of his advanced students. Performing classical and high-school dressage, the Horse Capades also included a comedy routine or two. Due to time and money constraints, the group gave its final performance in 1979.

In 1978, with second wife Carole Grant Olford, Grant established Shine a Bit Farm in Brighton, MI. He insisted that dressage was for every horse, bringing seventeen horses to Grand Prix, including Shining Gold, Bit o Shine, Shine a Bit, Miss Prince, Prussian Dudley, and Tarnished Gold. Grant trained Appaloosas, Arabians, Saddlebreds, and Thoroughbreds and taught hundreds of students, including such well-known dressage riders as Dominique Barbier, Violet Hopkins, Mary Anne McPhail, and Nancy Polozker."

Chuck Grant himself learned from AURTHUR KONYOT…

Knie family, Bartabas etc…etc…These people are magicians with horses.

As for those of you who are saying what does Circus Tricks have to
do with Dressage? BIG Grins…Some of the greatest Dressage riders
both present and past performed or learned from “Circus/Trick”
trainers.

Cherri Reiber who also worked for Glenn Randall (trained Trigger and many other Hollywood “trick” horses" AND is the head trainer for all of the Medieval Times Castles and is currently at the one in Toronto,Canada. You got to know who she is? Canadian Olympic Team? Hello…

Mari Monda Zdunic a top dressage competitor having earned USDF gold, silver, and bronze medals, Olympic Sports Festival silver, bronze and team medals, along with numerous USDF top ten horse of the year honors from the United States Dressage Federation from Training through Grand Prix levels, open and all breed awards. Mari competed in the Olympic Trials in 1980, Gladstone, NJ; and the 1981 World Championship Trials. She is equally admired for her spectacular exhibition rides which have thrilled spectators from coast to coast.

Sabine Schutt-Kerry, The BarteAus, Matt Mclaughlinetc…etc…etc…etc…etc…

Francois Baucher-One of the most noted trainers in the History of
Dressage was a Circus Performer. Invented the flying change at every
stride (one tempes) which interestingly enough was considered a
Trick/Circus movement until very recently when it was added to the
Dressage tests. (Dressage is 2000 years old or more. So yes anything
in the last one hundred years is considered recent).

James Fillis-Circus performer, and author of the most important
works ever written on dressage.

For many years the Circus was one of the few places one could see
good Dressage. Yes there can be a difference between trick training
and Dressage training, and yes Exhibition and Classical Dressage CAN
be different the reality is if they are done correctly. They are all
the same. Classical, Competitive, Circus, Exhibition, Trick
whatever. If done correctly there is no difference!

Kyra Kyrkland-`To become better, you need an open mind’, Kyra told.
Kyra learnt a lot from classical Swedish and German trainers, but
she trained with Russian trainers as well and she also learnt from
the circus.

Now if anyone critics of Circus/Trick training can outride her
please step up and I will happily concede. I could go on and on and
on. You would be surprised at how many of today’s Grand Prix riders
learned from Circus or Exhibition trainers.

So lets put the Circus vs Dressage stuff to rest yeah?
There is good and bad training everywhere. There is NO difference between an Olympic and Circus Piaffe/Passage/Tempes if they are done correctly.

Those who wish to learn will learn and the rest will just cling to their ideas of it cant be done…so they dont have to feel they need to learn more/they are incompetent…

EVEN IF I rode a GP test while I JUGGLED three balls they would find a reason to whine…

I proved my point in spades…Anyone with a brain can see that.

Now not in an inuslting way, but fiona,feisomeday, myrealit and so many others who have feverently disagreed with me…I would guess that you havent trained a horse to 3rd level, much less FEI or Grand Prix…So what makes you the experts?

I attacked Sabine because I am tired of watching her bully anyone who disagrees with her.

[bjrudq]

haha

“Dressage people are humble usually”

you have GOT to be kidding!

sabine and p.i.-you deserve each other!

[ise]

nhwr - if it’s too hot to leave your horses in a trailer with the windows, doors open - then you feel it’s better to tie them to the side of the trailer in the heat? This is ridiculous.

So your horses are fine as soon as they feel pressure on the poll - well there are always those horrible situations at shows where something insane happens - loose horses or whatever and YOUR horse’s ability to survive might depend on NOT being tied to a trailer.

DO IT IF YOU WANT. One dead horse will change your minds and it DOES HAPPEN.

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

The old insult what you dont understand routine…Circus training is not Dressage

First off KKJ- It was not my intent to post pictures of my horses.
The video clip and pictures were posted to prove my horses are well behaved and to show what kind of surroundings my horses are capable of handling. Hence I am not a yahoo twit who has to ride his horse because he doesnt have a car. Though I shouldnt have to prove it as I said from the beginning I am not a trainer, just a horse lover.

The ones who seemed the most out to argue are apparently intstructors…

I have the OPTION of riding my horse to Burger King, which obviously some people here dont…

Now to the next silly argument that Circus and Dressage are not the same etc…I will just end this in one swift blow.

Its a common misconception that people who are not/have little education in Dressage seem to cling too. Generally these are the same people who are stuck in the lower levels all their life. Whether they compete or not, these are the people who never get Piaffe unless they buy it because they will not expand their horizons.

I dont have a lot of time today but I will touch on the highlights for you…

Your horse doesnt differentiate between a bow and half pass. Yes certain movments require more strength and conditioning/acquired balance but in horse terms you ask they do you reward. Removal of aids is a reward.

Dressage Trainers(real ones) - are more aware of balance both for themeselves and the horse and try to be aware of the physical aspect of horse training…i.e physical conditioning…

Old Timers/Real Cowboys-Are probably the best hands down at understanding the horse mentally.

Circus Trainers-Can ask the questions in a way that is easy for the horse to understand.

Why limit yourself and your horses?

As for those of you who are saying what does Circus Tricks have to
do with Dressage? BIG Grins…Some of the greatest Dressage riders
both present and past performed or learned from “Circus/Trick”
trainers.

Ever heard of Chuck Grant? Considered the “Father of American Dressage”

Chuck Grant is in the USDF Hall of Fame. Trained 17 horses to Grand
Prix and competed them as well. More than any other American as far
as I know. This could have changed recently, but one thing for sure.
I am fairly sure that no ther trainer took such a variety of breeds
to Grand Prix. Appaloosa, Connemera Pony, Arabs and quite a few
Saddlebred and Saddlebred Crosses. From what I have heard the
Saddlebred crosses were his favorite. These were also the same
horses he did his Exhibitions/“tricks” with. Imagine that!

"For ten years, from 1969 to 1979, Grant led an exhibition troupe, the Horse Capades, which included some of his advanced students. Performing classical and high-school dressage, the Horse Capades also included a comedy routine or two. Due to time and money constraints, the group gave its final performance in 1979.

In 1978, with second wife Carole Grant Olford, Grant established Shine a Bit Farm in Brighton, MI. He insisted that dressage was for every horse, bringing seventeen horses to Grand Prix, including Shining Gold, Bit o Shine, Shine a Bit, Miss Prince, Prussian Dudley, and Tarnished Gold. Grant trained Appaloosas, Arabians, Saddlebreds, and Thoroughbreds and taught hundreds of students, including such well-known dressage riders as Dominique Barbier, Violet Hopkins, Mary Anne McPhail, and Nancy Polozker."

Chuck Grant himself learned from AURTHUR KONYOT…

Knie family, Bartabas etc…etc…These people are magicians with horses.

Cherri Reiber who also worked for Glenn Randall (trained Trigger and many other Hollywood “trick” horses" AND is the head trainer for all of the Medieval Times Castles and is currently at the one in Toronto,Canada. You got to know who she is? Canadian Olympic Team? Hello…

Mari Monda Zdunic a top dressage competitor having earned USDF gold, silver, and bronze medals, Olympic Sports Festival silver, bronze and team medals, along with numerous USDF top ten horse of the year honors from the United States Dressage Federation from Training through Grand Prix levels, open and all breed awards. Mari competed in the Olympic Trials in 1980, Gladstone, NJ; and the 1981 World Championship Trials. She is equally admired for her spectacular exhibition rides which have thrilled spectators from coast to coast.

Sabine Schutt-Kerry, The BarteAus, Matt Mclaughlinetc…etc…etc…etc…etc…

Francois Baucher-One of the most noted trainers in the History of
Dressage was a Circus Performer. Invented the flying change at every
stride (one tempes) which interestingly enough was considered a
Trick/Circus movement until very recently when it was added to the
Dressage tests. (Dressage is 2000 years old or more. So yes anything
in the last one hundred years is considered recent).

James Fillis-Circus performer, and author of the most important
works ever written on dressage.

For many years the Circus was one of the few places one could see
good Dressage. Yes there can be a difference between trick training
and Dressage training, and yes Exhibition and Classical Dressage CAN
be different the reality is if they are done correctly. They are all
the same. Classical, Competitive, Circus, Exhibition, Trick
whatever. If done correctly there is no difference!

Kyra Kyrkland-`To become better, you need an open mind’, Kyra told.
Kyra learnt a lot from classical Swedish and German trainers, but
she trained with Russian trainers as well and she also learnt from
the circus.

Now if anyone critics of Circus/Trick training can outride her
please step up and I will happily concede. I could go on and on and
on. You would be surprised at how many of today’s Grand Prix riders
learned from Circus or Exhibition trainers.

So lets put the Circus vs Dressage stuff to rest yeah?
There is good and bad training everywhere. There is NO difference between an Olympic and Circus Piaffe/Passage/Tempes if they are done correctly.

Those who wish to learn will learn and the rest will just cling to their ideas of it cant be done…so they dont have to feel they need to learn more/they are incompetent…

EVEN IF I rode a GP test while I JUGGLED three balls they would find a reason to whine…

I proved my point in spades…Anyone with a brain can see that.

Now not in an inuslting way, but I would guess the ones who feverently disagreed with me… havent trained a horse to 3rd level, much less FEI or Grand Prix…So what makes you the experts?

Apparently some of them havent even trained a horse to stand tied. A horse that cant stand tied probably is not emotionally ready or safe to ride. Thats why you cant ride him to Burger King!! :lol: :lol:

I attacked Sabine because I am tired of watching her bully anyone who disagrees with her.

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

Ahhh now its the circus/trick insults

Its a common misconception that people who are not/have little education in Dressage seem to cling too. Generally these are the same people who are stuck in the lower levels all their life.

I dont have a lot of time today but I will touch on the highlights for you…

Ever heard of Chuck Grant? Considered the “Father of American Dressage”

Chuck Grant is in the USDF Hall of Fame. Trained 17 horses to Grand
Prix and competed them as well. More than any other American as far
as I know. This could have changed recently, but one thing for sure.
I am fairly sure that no ther trainer took such a variety of breeds
to Grand Prix. Appaloosa, Connemera Pony, Arabs and quite a few
Saddlebred and Saddlebred Crosses. From what I have heard the
Saddlebred crosses were his favorite. These were also the same
horses he did his Exhibitions/“tricks” with. Imagine that!

"For ten years, from 1969 to 1979, Grant led an exhibition troupe, the Horse Capades, which included some of his advanced students. Performing classical and high-school dressage, the Horse Capades also included a comedy routine or two. Due to time and money constraints, the group gave its final performance in 1979.

In 1978, with second wife Carole Grant Olford, Grant established Shine a Bit Farm in Brighton, MI. He insisted that dressage was for every horse, bringing seventeen horses to Grand Prix, including Shining Gold, Bit o Shine, Shine a Bit, Miss Prince, Prussian Dudley, and Tarnished Gold. Grant trained Appaloosas, Arabians, Saddlebreds, and Thoroughbreds and taught hundreds of students, including such well-known dressage riders as Dominique Barbier, Violet Hopkins, Mary Anne McPhail, and Nancy Polozker."

Chuck Grant himself learned from AURTHUR KONYOT…

Knie family, Bartabas etc…etc…These people are magicians with horses.

As for those of you who are saying what does Circus Tricks have to
do with Dressage? BIG Grins…Some of the greatest Dressage riders
both present and past performed or learned from “Circus/Trick”
trainers.

Cherri Reiber who also worked for Glenn Randall (trained Trigger and many other Hollywood “trick” horses" AND is the head trainer for all of the Medieval Times Castles and is currently at the one in Toronto,Canada. You got to know who she is? Canadian Olympic Team? Hello…

Mari Monda Zdunic a top dressage competitor having earned USDF gold, silver, and bronze medals, Olympic Sports Festival silver, bronze and team medals, along with numerous USDF top ten horse of the year honors from the United States Dressage Federation from Training through Grand Prix levels, open and all breed awards. Mari competed in the Olympic Trials in 1980, Gladstone, NJ; and the 1981 World Championship Trials. She is equally admired for her spectacular exhibition rides which have thrilled spectators from coast to coast.

Sabine Schutt-Kerry, The BarteAus, Matt Mclaughlinetc…etc…etc…etc…etc…

Francois Baucher-One of the most noted trainers in the History of
Dressage was a Circus Performer. Invented the flying change at every
stride (one tempes) which interestingly enough was considered a
Trick/Circus movement until very recently when it was added to the
Dressage tests. (Dressage is 2000 years old or more. So yes anything
in the last one hundred years is considered recent).

James Fillis-Circus performer, and author of the most important
works ever written on dressage.

For many years the Circus was one of the few places one could see
good Dressage. Yes there can be a difference between trick training
and Dressage training, and yes Exhibition and Classical Dressage CAN
be different the reality is if they are done correctly. They are all
the same. Classical, Competitive, Circus, Exhibition, Trick
whatever. If done correctly there is no difference!

Kyra Kyrkland-`To become better, you need an open mind’, Kyra told.
Kyra learnt a lot from classical Swedish and German trainers, but
she trained with Russian trainers as well and she also learnt from
the circus.

Now if anyone critics of Circus/Trick training can outride her
please step up and I will happily concede. I could go on and on and
on. You would be surprised at how many of today’s Grand Prix riders
learned from Circus or Exhibition trainers.

So lets put the Circus vs Dressage stuff to rest yeah?
There is good and bad training everywhere. There is NO difference between an Olympic and Circus Piaffe/Passage/Tempes if they are done correctly.

Those who wish to learn will learn and the rest will just cling to their ideas of it cant be done…so they dont have to feel they need to learn more/they are incompetent…

EVEN IF I rode a GP test while I JUGGLED three balls they would find a reason to whine…

I proved my point in spades…Anyone with a brain can see that.

Now not in an inuslting way, but fiona,feisomeday, myrealit and so many others who have feverently disagreed with me…I would guess that you havent trained a horse to 3rd level, much less FEI or Grand Prix…So what makes you the experts?

I attacked Sabine because I am tired of watching her bully anyone who disagrees with her.

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

FEISOMEDAY!!

FEISOMEDAY- I was just goofing around before…Now its gonna get ugly…

you wrote “But am I the only one who finds the pix of a foot on the chest of a young one on it’s back very disturbing?”

You blind old bat…Get some glasses. What foot in what chest?.. you really are a stupid person arent you…You cant see, you cant think, “FEI SOME DAY” my right butt cheek, I will bet you anything in the world you couldnt train a horse to first level!

See folks that is a Carrot Lady! Cant see past herself and anything she doesnt understand is wrong. Then she will start to see things that arent there to justify her lack of knowledge and make false accusations to back her ignorance up!

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19300323943.jpg&s=f10

Look at it again, got put on your glasses or get some, borrow some whatever. This colt and I would play paddycake. He would lay down on cue before he was even three months old and could do all kinds of neat other stuff in order “to beg for scraps” as you so ignorantly put it. Lets see you do it or anything that requires that much trust from both the horse and handler.

Republican? Hell Yes…Divorced Nope…

Single and loving it for now…

[BornToRide]

You know, all you people who keep saying that circus tricks and dressage don’t mix just want to make me start showing a freestyle with a zebra pad to a nice old Western song and I might even throw in some Spanish Walk, just to twist them panties some more…eventually they might actually untwist because there’s too much twisted tension…at least that’s my hope …

It’s the performance that counts, the partnership between you and your horse and really nothing else! If you are good you are simply good, regardless of turnout or training approach. Why is that so difficult to accept??

[kkj]

Hey PI I wasn’t attacking you. I appreciate the pictures. I want to teach my horse to sit like that. I want to see your horse piaffe. I don’t think the picture of you with your foot on the foal on the ground is cruel at all. I have a pot belly pig who loves to lay like that and I scratch her with my foot. How is that anymore cruel than a lot of what we do to horses?

I also don’t think it was any more cool of someone to call you a many times divorced Republican any more than you calling Sabine bi-polar and in need of a man. These assumptions are really hurtful.

My comments about the Man From Snowy River and Urban Cowboy really are not insults. The Man From Snowy River was pretty incredible when he rode off that cliff (now that is balls) and the Urban Cowboy was a legend. I think you are probably a great horseperson with a special knack for teaching horses things most of us haven’t a clue about. I don’t know how well you would score in competitive dressage but that doesn’t mean you aren’t great at what you do. Not too many people would have the balls to take a little Arab over a four foot solid object out on the trail. (I wouldn’t)

I just think you need to work on your approach a little. You can come across not so nice and that isn’t the best way to get anywhere with us dressage people. Not that I am not prone to irrational moments or strong opinions myself but some of your comments were really a bit um ouch if you know what I mean.

I am done here but please post the video of the piaffe. I really want to see it.