Typical for teaching a horse to jump

[Mydaughtersgroom]

Please don’t flame me but I need some second opinions.

Over the last 18 months my daughter under the supervision and with help from her trainer(ex low level eventer now concentrating on dressage) taught her 14.2 stock type slightly downhill pony to jump. He came to us broke by a Western pleasure rider w/t/c but crooked and slightly unbalanced at the canter. The first year was spent improving his flat work and eventually going around a crossrail course. This summer (I.e. 14 months in to training) she was doing 2ft courses pretty successfully but it was clear that his limit was about 2’3 maybe 2’6. Since daughter wants to move up into higher fences eventually the search for a horse is on.

So my question is does the timeframe I just described sound typical for teaching a any horse to jump and start to jump higher or if a horse has a better jumper conformation and height, do things progress faster. We have found a nice minded 16.1 hand gelding but he has only done ground poles and my daughter isn’t sure she is willing to spend another show season at crossrails as it feels to her like she will “never” get to move up.

[Highflyer]

It depends a lot on the experience and ability and confidence of the rider and trainer, but no it’s not typical for it to take that long. (Which is not to say that it was unreasonable in the scenario you describe where the flatwork wasn’t there and your daughter was learning too.)

[BLBSTBLS]

While you don’t want to over face any horse when they are learning things, some horses find jumping quite easy, especially if they have general good confirmation and are very sound. Each and every horse is different, my personal experience with my paint gelding went from me starting him over cross rails, I showed him once in the 2’ division and he was completely bored. So I moved him up to the 2’3" within that same season, then 2’6" the next season and now in his third season he is showing at 2’9" -3’ and I have schooled him at 3’6". He has a very good brain, enjoys jumping, is sound.

the horse you are looking into is 16.1HH, how old is he, that is a big factor when thinking about a possible time frame you like to work towards as far as jumping. If he is young, the process may take longer, as he will need to build muscle, stamina, balance etc. Does he already do lead changes, and is his stride adjustable when riding the ground pole courses? If he is young and still growing you would have to be careful and conservative with his jumping.

I hope you find a horse your daughter can enjoy for many years

[mvp]

I would not buy a green horse for a relatively green kid who was in a hurry. That’s not fair. If you really know what you are doing and the horse is brave and easy going, it doesn’t take long to teach them to jump little courses. But if you rush them or scare them, you create a big training problem that lasts and lasts.

[findeight]

Every rider and every horse are different and rare is the horse that is suitable/safe at 2’ and 3’+. So there may be the need for an intermediate horse to move daughter from 2’ to 3’ as your daughter advances. It’s not the fence height as much as the increased pace, importance of lead changes, addition of spread fences (oxers) and adding combinations to courses above 2’6". There’s alot more then 12" to master between 2’ and 3’ for both horse and rider.

That said, to answer your question with the above caveats, yes it’s a suitable time frame for most riders and most horses if neither is dead Green at the start.

Would also recommend investigating other trainers who specialize in moving riders along in the HJ arenas. Be worth paying a commission to enlist their aid in finding a suitable horse to lease or buy for your daughters next steps as she advances. It’s a business relationship, not a friendship, pick one that’s best for daughters goals, not because trainer is your BFF or trainer wants to take in a project you will fund under the guise of teaching your daughter.

Ahhh, don’t buy a Green horse to teach your young Green rider.recommend you look into leasing a schoolmaster, not buy a project. Ask trainer about the wisdom of leasing at daughters stage.

[Gumby80]

I think it depends on the horse, the rider, and the trainer. For the horse, yes physical limitations can be important, especially in the case of a horse like you describe, who isn’t perhaps built for jumping. But more than that I think the horse’s brain and mental aptitude are important. What can really take tonnes of time is if the horse is anxious, hot etc, and you have to spend countless hours on poles and grids, getting them to calm down and slow down. Whereas a good brain and a good calm attitude can really get you a long way, even if the horse is not as talented.

The rider is also important: a rider getting in the way of a green horse, catching them in the face accidentally, giving them a fright etc. will slow things down a lot. Conversely, an experienced rider can give the horse confidence, and will progress much faster. There’s a reason why you sometimes see these super impressive sale videos (e.g. from horses in Europe), where a young horse is being piloted around a course like it’s the easiest thing in the world, and then when a mere mortal gets on them they can barely get them over a cross-rail.

The trainer can also make a difference. A good trainer will know when to move things up, and when to just spend a day consolidating. I’m sure we’ve all seen trainers ruin good horses by raising the jumps too high, too soon for the level of horse and rider, giving both a fright, and resulting in a horse that stops, rushes or just quits completely. Conversely, spending a year on ground poles is probably not necessary either.

Just my thoughts.

[beowulf]

Well, I thought that was a suitable time frame…

It really depends on the horse, the age, the capability of the rider, the effectiveness of the trainer…

To put it in perspective, I am not a professional, but I have experience retraining OTTBs. My most recent project was an OTTB that had an injury and some track baggage. Full disclosure, I’ve had him almost 3 years but the 1st year was spent on rehab and 2nd was spent just hacking him out and getting him exposed to things. He has been in a ‘real’ program since April and is W/T/C and jumping 2’3-2’6". So it really depends on the program. He’d be much further along if I was able to work him in the winter, and would be much further along with a professional.

I agree that for your situation green on green does not sound like a great idea. Everything mvp and findeight said.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Given the limitations in the initial horse with a kid riding, sounds like your trainer moved them along at the right timing for the combination.

But a different horse could very well progress faster…or a horse with a more experienced rider etc. Horses don’t listen or adhere to schedules. I’m an experienced rider and often start with a good athletic type. They are often trotting 2’3-2’6" single fences within their first few jump schools. Takes a bit longer to be doing courses depending on how their flat work is coming. But a less experienced rider might be still doing smaller fences a lot longer with the same horse or worse. As smart horses learn bad habits often faster than they learn good!!!

But for a more inexperienced kid…if they are all about wanting to show and move up…better to start with a more experienced horse first. Or if you buy the 16.1 hand green horse and you want to progress faster, put him in full training for a while…and you may end up spending a similar amount as buying a more experienced horse (with the gamble that the green horse will do the job with training)

[arlosmine]

Given the fact that you were starting with a GREEN to jumping, crooked pony with limitations, and a kid who had not already been through the process on one or more others mounts, with no professional training (coaching, but no pro rides)/
the timeline for the first pony sounds spot on to me.

If you want to get on the fast(er) track, spend the money to get your kid a horse who has already competed at or above the level she’s competing at currently. Even if the horse is older and needs help staying sound for the job. Expect to drop down a level while they learn about one another. Then the move up will come faster.

Listed to your kid. she is frustrated and not enjoying “the process” right now. If you do get a trained horse for her, make sure she understands that she still has to start at a lower level and move through the steps to advance…it will just take a bit less time to “get there”.

Consider a lease…a paid lease, for a season or two to get her some mileage on a nice horse at a higher level (If her trainer thinks she’s ready). Then regroup and decide if the next mount would be something for her to bring along from cross rails, or purchase a going horse.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=arlosmine;8842207]
Given the fact that you were starting with a GREEN to jumping, crooked pony with limitations, and a kid who had not already been through the process on one or more others mounts, with no professional training (coaching, but no pro rides)/
the timeline for the first pony sounds spot on to me.

If you want to get on the fast(er) track, spend the money to get your kid a horse who has already competed at or above the level she’s competing at currently. Even if the horse is older and needs help staying sound for the job. Expect to drop down a level while they learn about one another. Then the move up will come faster.

Listed to your kid. she is frustrated and not enjoying “the process” right now. If you do get a trained horse for her, make sure she understands that she still has to start at a lower level and move through the steps to advance…it will just take a bit less time to “get there”.

Consider a lease…a paid lease, for a season or two to get her some mileage on a nice horse at a higher level (If her trainer thinks she’s ready). Then regroup and decide if the next mount would be something for her to bring along from cross rails, or purchase a going horse.[/QUOTE]

I agree. If your child is keen on jumping and wants to show and have fun, then you should NOT be looking at green horses. Find a schoolmaster who is stepping down. Or find a Pony Clubber who is going off to college and wants to lease out or sell her experienced horse. Don’t buy a green horse. It will only frustrate your DD more and it might make riding not-fun for her.

Given the former experience of her current horse, the timeline sounds fine. It of course depends on her skill level as well and for training purposes I’d always rather take it a little slower and give the horse a good experience than rush it just to jump bigger jumps.