Thanks so much for the suggestions. It really did break my heart once I watched that cowboy video as I realized how much work we truly had ahead, and he’s the kind of horse that needs the exact opposite rider of that cowboy. I definitely won’t be sending him on until we’ve sorted out his trust and reaction issues, and even then I doubt he’ll ever make a very ammie-friendly mount! Only time and some good riding will tell I suppose. I’m going to start him on some ulcer stuff today and try a mullen type bit.
I agree with jlee, and would add, having owned a Welsh cob cross, that 5 year old ponies can become the child who pushes boundaries. Think pimply adolescent, hanging behind the barn, smoking cigarettes. My trainer (jeannette on this board) worked on my relaxation which did work, but really, the mare was a pistol until she was about 8 years old. Then she became a total packer, and now is a beloved Pony Club mount.
So yes, restart, treat for ulcers, but don’t be surprised if there’s always some heat. Use the Force. 
[QUOTE=joliemom, again;8541857]
I agree with jlee, and would add, having owned a Welsh cob cross, that 5 year old ponies can become the child who pushes boundaries. Think pimply adolescent, hanging behind the barn, smoking cigarettes. My trainer (jeannette on this board) worked on my relaxation which did work, but really, the mare was a pistol until she was about 8 years old. Then she became a total packer, and now is a beloved Pony Club mount.
So yes, restart, treat for ulcers, but don’t be surprised if there’s always some heat. Use the Force. :)[/QUOTE]
that applies to any breed. 4-6 are often tough years!
Sometimes ponies lure us into believing they’re little and cute. Not the Camaro driving, 8-track tape playing, mailbox destroying hellions they can be for many, many years. :lol:
[QUOTE=joliemom, again;8541904]
Sometimes ponies lure us into believing they’re little and cute. Not the Camaro driving, 8-track tape playing, mailbox destroying hellions they can be for many, many years. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Don’t let those big eyes and little ears fool you! :lol:
The poor little guy is having 398273948 instructions thrown at him all at once, and he’s terrified (in the video with the “trainer”.) It stressed ME out watching. I can’t imagine being the horse. IMO if he was mine, I’d be going for a walk every day on a loose rein. I wouldn’t even touch his mouth. Everything in that video suggests that his natural desire to go forward is block block blocked all in his mouth, so he has all this energy and willingness and is completely barricaded by the rider’s hands. That’s a recipe for tension and frustration. I know because I used to be the same way with my green horse. He wanted to get quick, so I’d keep tightening and tightening the reins so he would slow down. That only fires a horse like him up more, and it makes for an unhappy explosive horse who doesn’t understand a darn thing. I was never taught any differently, so I didn’t know that what I was doing was causing this. Unfortunately, the effect that everything a rider does can have on a horse was never a part of my riding education growing up.
I moved my horse and started anew with a big and diverse group of people who (even the kids) were able to help me work through our problems. I spent a lot of time going out on long hacks with a loose rein and just letting him be. I had to become a source of confidence and safety for him instead of the crooked monkey water skiing on his mouth. The rider becoming the horse’s place and source of comfort will help more than any series of exercises, any supplement, and any training technique. He has to look to you for guidance and feel like “I’m not sure what I’m doing, but my person would never get me into a troublesome situation. I am okay.”
Now I’m not sure what your horse’s medical history is, but mine also had some physical problems that made his mental state even worse (very bad teeth, body out of alignment, very thin when I bought him, no hind end strength to speak of.)
Cantering during our tough times
Much improved, working on balancing a little more
These are videos of us. All the same lead, spanning a few years. My riding in the first video is atrocious. I’m almost embarrassed to be posting it, but it’s a good example of how horses like ours can get to that mental place. As my riding and his health improve, his anxiety and tension go away.
Thanks for the post skipollo! That is another question I was wondering about- whether I should absolutely not touch his mouth while riding him for a few months, or if I should keep a light and forgiving contact on him while riding as he has to get used to this anyways.
[QUOTE=skipollo;8542523]
The rider becoming the horse’s place and source of comfort will help more than any series of exercises, any supplement, and any training technique. He has to look to you for guidance and feel like “I’m not sure what I’m doing, but my person would never get me into a troublesome situation. I am okay.”[/QUOTE]
Very much this.
Thanks for saying it so very clearly.
I hate to say it but my Connemara/TB mare was quite the problem child for an extended adolescence. She would jump anything but was very hot and sensitive and kind of a one person horse for a few years. Around ten she became great and now she’s a fairly model citizen and a Prelim machine, but it wasn’t a quick process. Connemaras are wicked smart and athletic but kind of the border collies of the horse world. As far as bits, I ride her in a Nathe Duo for dressage and a Myler low ported D ring for cross country.
A lot of Connemaras are very hot and sensitive. And strong. They’re not really children’s ponies.
[QUOTE=horsenic;8542758]
Thanks for the post skipollo! That is another question I was wondering about- whether I should absolutely not touch his mouth while riding him for a few months, or if I should keep a light and forgiving contact on him while riding as he has to get used to this anyways.[/QUOTE]
For him, the bit has become a source of frustration and punishment. I would completely leave his face alone until he trusts his rider again.
[QUOTE=horsenic;8542758]
Thanks for the post skipollo! That is another question I was wondering about- whether I should absolutely not touch his mouth while riding him for a few months, or if I should keep a light and forgiving contact on him while riding as he has to get used to this anyways.[/QUOTE]
I would keep enough contact that you can apply brakes and stop bucking if needed. Whenever you feel he is relaxed you can take contact as you push him into a corner. The corner and some leg there encourages bend and taking a bit of contact and I find that with horse that has been handled rough in the face this is the easiest place to do it. Take contact and encourage bend in each corner, maintain a light connection down the long sides, repeat. Eventually the horse will maintain the contact a bit himself down the long sides and you can progress from there.
[QUOTE=horsenic;8542758]
Thanks for the post skipollo! That is another question I was wondering about- whether I should absolutely not touch his mouth while riding him for a few months, or if I should keep a light and forgiving contact on him while riding as he has to get used to this anyways.[/QUOTE]
Mine does better with a contact that is very forgiving. I always make sure that I am following with the elbow and any manipulations of the contact come from my elbow and not my wrist/hand.
Double whorls just means they are smart (like evil genius level smart) and sensitive. Toby has double whorls. I love double whorls.
This is a cool horse. I think you need to pick my next one, because I LOVED Art, and I love this guy. He needs some help, but I think he’ll come around.
I would take take him back to basics, maybe even some time ground driving, if you’re good at it. Basic bridle with something very kind…I would probably start with either a Nathe type bit or the hard to find soft, narrow rubber dog bone. But, I’ve ridden a few like this that preferred a big fat, light hollow mouth type bit. May take some experimenting (THIS is why I don’t sell bits).
I would ride him on a light, soft contact. No loops. He needs to learn to trust and accept contact and I think avoiding it will prolong his objection. I would be very tempted to always ride with a breastplate or neck strap to hold onto to keep my hands dead still when he gets panicky and starts pulling. Like jlee, leg leg leg. Your leg should be something he learns to find comfort (example, when Toby gets nervous, even if he’s feeling sharp, I sit deep and wrap my legs around him. He often will soften and relax. He finds the pressure reassuring). Keep everything dead simple (forward and straight), stay cool no matter what he does, and praise often and soothingly (he’s going to be a coo and a stroke type dude, not a hearty pat and an “attaboy!” type). If he’s better out of the ring, go out as much as possible and introduce trusting contact and leg in an environment he finds less stressful.
Also, spend LOTS of time on the ground with him, in his stall and in his field. Teach him to turn to you for comfort. My guess is he’s not going to be an outgoing, gregarious horse who’s going to march around the world with confidence (that doesn’t mean he won’t be brave over fences), so if he knows you are there for him and will keep him safe and never put him in a position he can’t handle, you’ll find he starts to relax under saddle, too.
And, treat him for ulcers. At least give it a try.
He’ll come around! I know it.
[QUOTE=yellowbritches;8543232]
And, treat him for ulcers. At least give it a try.
He’ll come around! I know it.[/QUOTE]
Please do this. What can it hurt? It really isn’t terribly expensive and chances really are great, given the stress level you say he was under, that he has them.
At least don’t waffle and self-“diagnose” that he doesn’t have them by convincing yourself he doesn’t have classic symptoms – get a vet’s opinion on the matter. Because again, given the circumstances, he was under a lot of stress. One vet visit isn’t going to break the bank.
He looks like a grand horse in the making.
Thank you so much for the input everyone. I will put all the tips and tricks given into action! I will also treat for ulcers, you’ve convinced me. I also think he is a really cool horse, and am looking forward to what the future holds for him even if it may take a lot of time and patience. It’ll be a good learning experience for me as well, and I won’t be afraid to spend some money on lessons.
I don’t know you, but I’m pretty sure I love you. Your post is so positive, despite the very real nature of the dilemma you’re facing, I predict you’ll be nothing but successful. He’s also TOTES AMAZE and I need him in desk size so I could play with him while I work. Additionally, that is the most awful “I bought him from a video” video ever, so of course I love you more for it because it seems exactly like something I would do.
First things first, have him thoroughly vetted. He may very well be sore or have a legitimate anatomical discrepancy somewhere other than his belly. Take the time to thoroughly establish a physical baseline. It’s worth doing it now.
Second thing, give yourself 30 days to try something completely different with him. Hack him like a hunter, allow him to put his head/body wherever he wants, as long as he’s civil about it. This may seem counter-intuitive, but the truth is you’re facing a retraining project anyway … give yourself the time to get to know him better, and give him the chance to get to know you in a different context. Forget things like contact, bend, correctness, etc. Just tack him up, sit on him, pat his neck, and “establish the loop.”
Finally, he probably really is smart as a whip, and all of the things Connemaras are known for. Use it to your advantage. Teach him to stretch for carrots and do any of those clicker-training tricks as well. One day you’ll wake up and the pieces will magically fit, and he’ll be the horse you can’t imagine living without … not because you commanded him to be that way, but because you lead him to that place. Good luck!
Thank you for the kind post Robby! I put everyone’s tips into action today and had THE BEST ride. So encouraging! He loved the full-cheek bit I put him in, and we did our session in the outdoor ring which he also loved even though I froze. Though he was feeling especially fresh, he got down to business and accomplished some good transitions and accepted contact much better! Yay!!
What I have learned about contact from the Very Large Tattle Tail, aka the Prince of the Pea, is that it’s not so much how tight the reins are but there may be no tension in those reins. What works for me is making sure the muscles in my forearms are soft and not tight/tense.
He looks like he was started more similar to how I’ve seen some of the reiners start their horses. He knows “stop” pretty well, and will give to the bit by sort of tucking his head in, but it looks like the guy didn’t do a great job mouthing him. If they don’t understand what pressure on their mouth means, they’ll fight it and worry about it, and try to run away from it.
I would suggest re-mouthing him. Either with a (better) professional, or at least with good help on the ground. Teach him pressure and release: this cue means this, introduce one thing at a time. A horse can’t cope with leg into contact if they still have no idea what the bit means.
It’s a good thing to fix now. If you sort of get him better, but don’t quite get him over the issue, you might find yourself having brakes problems and blocks in the road with dressage training down the road.
There’s nothing in a horse’s instincts that tells them that mouth pressure means stop or give. We have to train them to go against their instincts of running away from pressure or discomfort, and teach them exactly what we want. Looks like your cowboy just didn’t do a great job of mouthing. More than riding with more leg, more than calmers or medications, or trail riding, or throwing the reins at him, just teach him what you want, from the beginning. The best trainers can make things so clear and straightforward to the horse that you remove most of the worry and anxiety, and the horses they start are not just responsive but also calm and confident. It might be easiest to try and find one of these good trainers to help you at first, try and address the holes in his training, and go from there.
