UDJC.. a new forum for dressage showing.. THOUGHTS?

I was lucky to have longe lessons (side reins on.) Interestingly enough, not on dressage horses, but by an American trainer who knew how to train a kiddo and TB field hunters to go in side reins. It was hard, and I certainly was never destined to be a world beater, but I did learn to sit and use my legs, while leaving the control of the horse’s head to her.

It was very helpful for me to learn to take care with the horses mouth after I had a relatively independent seat. I wasn’t a natural talent, but getting my seat down first was the best path to finding independent seat and hands for me.

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When I was a young teen, in a time and place without lessons, intelligent adult help, or even saddles for many kids :slight_smile: my observation for myself and others was that it took about a month of riding daily at all gaits before a new rider would “get their balance” as I called it and be able to stop grabbing mane or saddle horn.

After that people could stay on through just about anything. Also we expected that you could vault onto your own horse bareback from the ground. But steering and brakes were iffy for many :slight_smile: in large part because most of these kids horses, while fairly safe, had minimal schooling.

Kind of the polar opposite of today. Something in the middle would be ideal.

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I too yahooed around on my pony before I took lessons. I think that’s how many of us started in the U.S.

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One of the benefits of longeing beginners is that it saves the horse’s mouths, and it saves the rider’s arms/ hands.

Horses can develop a bad habit of jerking the reins away from beginners. Beginners can start out by grabbing the reins for support, as if they were handles. Because they don’t yet know how to sit.

Horses also learn that they can resist the reins, and do. It takes a lot of pulling and holding on for a new rider, especially a young one that isn’t particularly strong, to turn a confirmed lesson horse that isn’t inclined to help.

Fortunately stopping an American lesson horse usually isn’t hard! That tends to happen with the lightest rein pressure. The student has no idea that they are even applying rein pressure. Other than that the horse is anchored to the ground and won’t take a step.

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Yes, that’s all kinda true. But that’s not the main reason for going to shows early. I’m obviously not a native speaker, so I’ll try to explain it in my own words. It might sound rude, but I’m not a rude person, just German :wink: I also didn’t mean to insult anybody and/or start an antsy argument…
In our opinion it’s never too early to get show experience, especially if you’re ambitious about the sport.
We think about the sport at the lower levels differently: in intro, training and even first level it’s mainly about the development of the rider, not the horse. Riders at that level are not supposed to and do not develop horses. Young horse classes are for developing horses, ridden by advanced riders. As far as low level riding goes, riding the horse “on the bit” correctly is a task that starts - hard to say in numbers - but I’d say 15-20% into your whole riding career. Before that, the rider is not supposed to mess with the bit before they’re not sitting correctly and balanced and before they’re not able to ride basic movements correctly in the arena. The aids required to ride a horse on the bit need to be developed over a long time frame, it takes most beginners several years. Why should they miss out on showing in that time (several years)? The focus is completely different in the lower levels.
Side reins are not supposed to tie the horse down and put it in a forced frame, they’re supposed to help the rider and especially THE HORSE. I know here in the US people think they’re a tool from the devil, but they’re not. They’re absolutely helpful and also healthy for the horse, of course if they’re being used correctly. Again, they help the horse to be over the back and have a steady contact without the rider interfering. Why do you use them for lunging and not just let the horse run around however they want to? Because they’re a great tool. There’s nothing wrong with that. They’re also not unsafe if used correctly. Riders who use side reins at shows typically also use them at home and the horses are used to them. USDF created the most beginner and especially kid unfriendly environment I’ve ever seen in my life, and we stand for something differently than that. We invite everybody to come and ride dressage, bring your jumping saddle if you don’t have a dressage saddle, we don’t care! But we want everybody to understand how important dressage is for every single equestrian discipline. Judges give you direct feedback on a microphone after your test, judges even help you through your test (at lower levels), that’s how it’s supposed to be! I took a 7yo to a USDF intro B test, she was the only one in the class and they disqualified her at her first show for having half chaps that weren’t smooth leather but had a little “fake leather pattern”. If that’s what you like then no problem, we don’t force anybody to come to our shows, we don’t even try to convince you. If y’all like it the way it is, that’s absolutely fine with us, don’t come please. But if you think that’s time for a different approach we’re open for everyone. We have a whole tier of dressage classes that are ridden in a group format and exclusively judged on the rider and the ride-ability of the horse. If you like that, come! If you don’t like it because you have a fancy warmblood and get 73% at USDF shows anyways, then don’t come. Or come anyways and give it a try. I just hope that everyone who doesn’t get tired of criticizing everything we do behind the computer actually comes to one of our shows to experience the atmosphere or at least talks to someone who has been there, I promise you’ll think differently about UDJC. That’s it, sorry for the long text and sorry for my English, I hope it’s understandable.

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Same. Actually yahoo’ed around on a friends OTTB that was fortunately long off the track, and glad to be free of all the speed.

That was after I had started in a lesson program. But the yahoo’ing was standard for learning to ride, where I was. I had friends, we were all out there together. Figuring out what not to do, as well as what worked.

Some of the horses had been started the same way, back in their day.

In our lesson program kids are on lead and lunge lines on a bareback pad with handles (small vaulting handles) for a very long time before they’re allowed to ride freely… with side reins :wink:

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I think this is a very important distinction that is being lost here. The “European system” of teaching riding is for just that. Teaching a person how to ride a horse, any horse, any discipline. At that stage, there is no specialization.

In the riding environment that I grew up in, in the UK, when dinosaurs roamed the cooling earth, there were plenty of things to go do at a horse show as a kid that didn’t involve competence at dressage or at jumping over things. You could go get your show ring experience in many other ways, whether it was gymkhana games or showing. Those things just don’t exist in the English showing and riding world over here. (Something that made me rather sad when I moved here 35 years ago because I left behind a really rather nice show hack prospect.)

Dressage could be one path you might choose to follow once you knew how to ride reasonably competently. (And in general it wasn’t very good back then, either!)

Using side reins in the school so someone can focus on their seat rather than their hands seems like a pretty good idea to me–on the right horse, in a controlled environment. I’ve seen it in action and it seems to work.

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I think the issue that some people have in the U.S. about side reins comes from them not being exposed to trainers who are competent and can train a horse to go properly in them, as well as longe them well with a rider up.

As we all know, in the U.S. anyone can call themselves a trainer. Not so in Germany or the B.H.S.

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So what about safesport?

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That is an issue I am concerned about as well. It seems we will be getting no answers.

Safe Sport is a U.S. law and people from outside of the U.S. don’t seem to be too concerned about it. They don’t have to be, if they are showing outside of USEF rules. The same issue exists with local/schooling shows, no drug rules and no Safe Sport enforcement.

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This is where things are for all horse activity outside of the USEF, as far as I know. I’m not even sure that there is a way to plug into Safe Sport if one isn’t a credentialed organization fixture.

The horse community can be like a small village at times. Many people know who is on the list. They recognize them when they are around. Understandable that this causes deep concerns.

No , there isn’t really, unless the show management demands it, which they can do. They only have to look at the Safe Sport banned list (which is available to anyone) and write in their rules that the show will abide by those bans. They may not be able to exclude people with temporary suspensions, but a permanent S.S. ban I would expect to be enough to stand up in a legal challenge. Not an attorney, just my best guess.

Of course riders from countries other than the U.S. don’t fall under Safe Sport rules, because they are usually doing FEI classes not USEF national classes and are not members of USEF.

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A local schooling show org here in TX was sued for not protecting minors where there was an incident with a safesport banned individual. Giving people who abuse others a platform to continue to be around minors seems gross at best in addition to being a liability.

If UDJC doesn’t care about safesport just say so.

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My take on it is that most people don’t consider SafeSport a priority. If they have to check the box to participate then they will, and if not, it’s not a concern.

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UDJC had someone who was suspended for inappropriate contact with a minor participate at their shows.

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I don’t think they care and I think that’s very unfortunate. Same with drug testing. I thought that was obvious.

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Do you expect every small show or series unaffiliated with USEF to provide drug testing? Let’s keep our sights on reality here. To date, this organization has had a grand total of 3 shows in TX, one in Oklahoma, one coming up in Louisiana and a couple of other states.

It doesn’t strike me as feasible $$ wise to be doing drug testing at this stage in the organization’s development, and it seems to me that it is very unfair to expect it of them.

If I recall correctly: membership fees are only a couple hundred dollars or less and class entry fees are around $35. That’s not going to cover drug testing anytime soon.

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No, I don’t expect either drug testing or keeping child molesters out of these shows, nor out of schooling shows. It can’t be done without great expense, and the cheaper option compared to USEF rated shows, is a part of the selling point that UDJC is selling here.

It just seems like something that some people would like to consider when entering, knowing what they are giving up to save money.

Well interesting post, being a German myself plus having shown in both systems (still do in Germany) I would disagree about some of what you wrote…
I am not sure why you think it is necessary to create a new system in the US.
My personal opinion is that both systems have their huge advantages but huge disadvantages as well…
The main difference is probably the money factor. Unless your shows are significantly more affordable you will not even attract all these kids for the shows and it might not even be a money factor because most kids I saw were doing the hunters…. There are not many kids around in the dressage scene ( at least not while I was in Florida until 2019, maybe that changed)
And for everybody else the German system is much less friendly than the US system…. An older AA rider showing in Germany feels like an outcast and is for sure not treated nice…. Showing in the US is extremely expensive but if you go to a show you will have a wonderful weekend with other likeminded people and friends…. the side reins are probably the least problem (and I guess they are optional anyhow). Heck at one of my last shows, the parents of my competitors were younger than me… not even talking of the age of the horses… I would love to be back in the US for showing…

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