“Horses for courses, and courses for horses.” Whoever controls the courses will control the winners, the future of breeding, and the future of the sport.
This is exactly what happened to GP jumping, and is happening to dressage with the institution of the freestyle to music.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;4108396]
I agree that he needs more time. As for the 4, 5 and 6 year classes…I’m not all that surprised none are competing. If they are big and a bit slower to mature…I wouldn’t be bothering with those classes either. Here in the States we have those classes as well…and some of the nicest young stock isn’t mature enough for those classes and don’t compete in those classes…doesn’t mean that they will not be top horses in time. A very limited few of the winners in those classes have gone on to be top horses themselves…although I do still support that sort of class and some very nice horses do well in them. But those classes are just a judge’s idea of what will be a top prospect…you really don’t know what will be an UL event horse until they are competing at the UL. It’s part of what makes this sport fun![/QUOTE]
One of my fill in vets has an eventing yard with his girlfriend. I asked if he did the Future Event Horse classes and he said no, we don’t. When asked why he stated that at 4 they weren’t actually ready in the spring and summer to be doing these classes. And at 5 during the summer you’d like to get them out to a small event meant for eventing and that the FEHL was somewhere in between. He said they suit a purpose but not for his program.
I did a few of the FEHL’s a few years ago and thought them great craic and great for a 5yo. But then again, it was fun for me because I am in no way a serious event rider or should I say never will be an event rider. There are a handful of point to point people who use them as education for the pointers. And in Ireland there is a prize for winningest full TB.
Terri
Oh…at least the ones in here in the US are great fun and a can be a good experience for a young horse. I’ve shown a few as 5 year olds…haven’t had a 4 year old that was ready for any of the ones near me. I have a 5 year old this year who will likely go and do a few. But I just wouldn’t be evaluating a stallion based on how many offspring he has in those classes or are doing well in those classes. For eventing…most horses don’t hit their prime until they are about 10 years old…and the worst thing you can do with a talented young horse is push them along too fast (it is also the most common mistake done with them). It is also why most of the “proven” event stallions that people are suggesting…are all dead… (oh…the advantages of frozen swimmers!).
All of our most successful horses have been offtrack TB’s, but even then it takes 4-6 years to get to Advanced on the best/most trainable. So that’s almost as risky as breeding, timewise.
Stolensilver, thanks. I agree with pretty much everything you said (much better than I could have ;-).
However, I just don’t get the party that claims only the full TB or 7/8 or close to will get the job done. I think the next 10 years will give us a nice piece of info on where the “purpose” breeding of eventers will go. I totally second the infusion of more jumper blood when the background of the pedigree still has enough TB/Arab (Cavalier Royale is a nice example, and WIndfall is too - one is already a proven producer for the upper levels, the other is hopefully heading that way soon, his oldest get in Germany have reached *** level). The 50%, 75% etc TB/Arab, Anglo, Shagya crosses will always be interesting to watch.
Since you mentioned Grafenstolz - a stallion I adore - you should also keep in mind that he carries almost no TB anywhere close. He got the job done though, and his oldest get are heading there too. Exception to the rule? Not really, he’s a Trakehner and that is indeed very different blood - and not so much because you can actually count % TB in a given pedigree. A look at the make-up of these lines about 70 years before our time gives a pretty good indication of why this is still “refinement” blood.
I’m very curios where the OP will go - keep us posted, and best of luck to you and your mare!!
Backing up a bit, someone very early on suggested Brandeburg’s Windstar, and someone came along and said they had one that was hard to stick and added anecdotally that others were as well. Okay, maybe his get aren’t for everyone (that everyone including me, actually) but the OP said she didn’t mind a pro ride so he shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand – I think he meets the stated requirements to a T.
You know you are going to have to come back and tell us who you picked, don’t you?
: - )
I brought up the spook issue but I never said he wasn’t qualified to be on this list. 
But the spook issue is something to know about before breeding. Spookiness isn’t, IMO, a ‘pro ride’ issue, it’s a matter of personal choice. How much time do you want to spend on the ground, in the air, or spinning?
And as for the pro ride thing in general, many athletic young horses – if they’re going to succeed in eventing – really need to work with a rider who can answer their questions correctly (consistently) and not disturb their natural athleticism. As much as we all love the story of the 12 year-old and the OTTB, there’s a point in a horse’s training where they might need a rider with more experience who can make the calls when necessary. With the super athletes, it can be even more critical in terms of how their confidence develops.
You should seriously consider breeding to Grafenstoltz. He is a fantastic event stallion that can do it all. His offspring share his same great movement and looks. Gin Tonic is living proof. This season he is booked to breed to many successful event mares. Frozen semen is available in the US via Blue Mounds Equine Clinic http://www.bluemoundsequine.com/grafenstolz.htm
my proposal
What about a glorified hunter trial?; I’m thinking of something likLoudons’ hunter trials course in a large field;:yes: it included a jump in the tree line, down a small slope down over a narrow creek, only a mud puddle if, there has been a drought , ( :winkgrin:most) years up and out the other side and a good gallop around up a gentle rise to the largest fence a green coop 3’6":eek: precede this wih ample “obedience ride " enough so, the foxhunters learn their leads; i:lol:f desired, do a gallop stretch at a proscribed speed withe type of jump which, would be seen at a hunt race meet for a “foxhunters” division; this would have to be tweaked a bit but, might give us a more suitable test for young horses; it would be nice to include a dry ditch and small bank but, those would both would add to an organizers’ costs; how does the class description read?” the horse most suited to eventing?
sf
my suggestion for YEH classes
What about a glorified hunter trial?; I’m thinking of something like Loudons’ hunter trials course in a large field; it included a jump in the tree line, down a small slope over a narrow creek, only a mud puddle if, there has been a drought :lol:, ( most) years up and out the other side and a good gallop around up a gentle rise to the largest fence a green coop 3’6" precede this withsimple “obedience ride” " enough so, the foxhunters learn their leads; if desired do a gallop stretch at a proscribed speed withe type of jump which, would be seen at a hunt race meet for a “foxhunters” division; this would have to be tweaked a bit but, might give us a more suitable test for young horses; it would be nice to include a dry ditch and small bank but, those would both would add to an organizers’ costs; how does the class description read?" the horse most suited to eventing?
Windfall
Windfall
THANKS!
You guys are truly fabulous… What great suggestions! I am an amateur breeder on all counts, and really appreciated the help!!! You all came up with some terrific ideas, and some I hadn’t yet investigated!
I decided to go with Catherston Dazzler. He seems incredibly neat, and I hope he’ll be a great cross for my wonderful mare whom I’m so lucky to have! I’m so excited!
Though I competed my young Windfall boy this weekend (my first born!!!) and WOW, what an event horse… I think I’ll be going back to him sometime in the future!!
Aberjack
Haved you looked at Aberjack?
I had a feeling you’d go with him!!! Good choice. I would’ve considered him as well though my budget was not in that range and I settled for a proven 3* (who could’ve done 4 had he had a better rider).
Congrats! You are on your way lady!
Dogwood Sport Horses stands Freedomhall. You can check him out on http://www.hunterfoalsforsale.com/dsh.html . The owners seem very nice. Good Luck!
Accidentally ran across this thread while looking for something else, and thought I’d update it. This was an outstanding discussion, very much appreciated and very enlightening. Two questions/updates:
Now that it’s a couple of years later, how have your opinions changed? Or have they changed? What NEW stallions would you consider?
As HHFarm noted, we bred to Catherston Dazzler. We foaled a BEAUTIFUL, big filly who our vet labeled “one of the best of the year.” She’s now a strapping bay yearling. We bought two doses, and (with the best of repro vet support) bred a bigger, grey TB mare with the second dose last year. She just foaled a SPECTACULAR black/grey filly who just SCREAMS eventer (2 days old, she was hilarious this morning in turnout fighting with a weed!). This one’s REALLY going to be special or I’ll turn in my breeding certs. Both CD’s were long legged, took a while to be stable on their legs, and were not tremendously people oriented.
We rebred the original (advanced producer) mare to Fleetwater Opposition, and either it didn’t take or it slipped (I think it slipped) so we gave her the year off after 5 or 6 straight foals to get back into good repro health. We just rebred her to Consul (hoping for a Jessica Ransehausen knockoff). We plan to breed the big grey mare who just foaled (above) with our second dose of Fleetwater Opposition.
And we’ve got several 2nd generation Windfalls, by our own son of Windfall. He’s awesome, an area champion, a 4 y.o. YEH champion, and getting ready to get serious about eventing. We’d recommend Windfall to anyone/everyone for a TB cross. ALL of our foals from this line are quite unusual - EXTREMELY strong at birth, usually up before the mares, strong suck reflex, and so people oriented that we have to be careful NOT to imprint them away from the mare. The book’s still out on their ultimate capabilities (other than the direct Windfall, the second generation oldest are 2 y.o.'s, barely), but this line throws little bulldozers (complement, not criticism) who are friendly, athletic, and FUN! Opinionated little buggers, but they love and seek attention. We’ll see how much talent they have in a couple of years.
And this year we’re still awaiting a Riverman (Holsteiner, we’ve bred one and bought one, competed to a Novice national championship) and another second generation Windfall. We’re extremely pleased with our developing crop! It’s been a real learning experience to see several foals from the same mares by different stallions, and to realize the differences that stallions bring - even tho we agree that the mare is critical for the quality of foal thrown.
So, two or three years later, what stallions would you recommend for breeding an upper level eventer from good TB mares?
Love my Grafenstolz foal from this year - big boned, correct and has a great gallop so far
I have a very nice Quite Easy also
Nevada has quite a few babies out of TB mares eventing. The oldest are doing well at Training Level, (2nd at Morven, 5th at VA Horse Trials) with one moving up to Prelim this weekend.
Catherston Dazzler or Windfall!:yes:
Just a note: We were offering Avebury WF frozen only, but he is home now and I am not sure when he will return to Phillip Dutton’s barn due to the fire so he is also available fresh. He just completed the one star at Virginia Horse Center with no jumping or time faults, only one of three horses in his division to do so. All of our collections (and frozen collections and storage) are done at Select Breeders Service in their new facility at Chesapeake City, Md.
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