Uh oh - REAL Sports with Bryant Gumble

re: where some of this really starts

Actually in fact (while most likely not admitted into any statistical base) there are those who raise horses for meat. Since the family farmer has been under attack from various corners of the economic policies in especially the last nearly 30 years. Corporate farming is taking over, many have lost generational farms, in some areas it is like finding a living dinosaur to speak to and try to understand how they have suvived.

Many have turned to just that to survive somehow, just as puppy mills started their death march around the country on the heels of the economic collapse. Quite likely they were in existence in isolated form from greedy and morally distant individuals.

On the cultural front as it concerns horses when the changing cultural cataclysms have hit, the acceptance of eating horse has not been breeched, at least in the United States, and it is considered a reprenhensible thing to do. If you were starving, of course you would eat what you had to in order to survive. But if you look back throughout history, and I do not have any exact year as it happened slowly after the Renaissance, but one of the popes issued a decree against the eating of horses as it was common practice in the Roman Empire for fallen generals to be honored by the “cap” horse (the riderless horse with the boots turned backwards indicating a last look at his family), then after the ceremony they ate the horse.Also in pagan religious practices they drank the blood of the horse to give them power. So, in other words this practice has taken hold again in certain countries of Europe because of economically strangulating polices and outbreaks of diseases like mad cow.

The reason for the emotional disgust I would feel for even the idea of eating an animal such as the horse, dog & cat is because I am an inheritor, if you will, of a profoundly Christian outlook (although certainly the advanced Islamic Cultures, after their Renaissance felt the same), where the horse is our friend, our partner in war, work and in peace, and just as you would hopefully not eat your friend unless you were a cannibal or barbarian, or starving to death, as happened in Europe during WWI and WWII.

I remember stories from my German mother and things which I have read about the French underground during the war, in which they, in the midst of bombings and total devastation, would smuggle their pets with them. Heartbreaking stories that make me cry when I cuddle my pets and go to see the horses when I am the most distressed which is difficult now since I am bereft of any horse and only have 5 dogs living in a 900 square foot house. It makes me thank God that I am living in a country such as ours where we can disagree and discuss these matters on a public board.

What puzzles me the most about the Bryant Gumble show is that this has been going on for better than 30 years. Why suddenly is this such big news? Why not do an undercover investigation of the blue blood breeding stock farms where the babies are injected with steroids to make them bloom big and fat for the sales which is laying the basis for their early demise on a race track or galloping out in the field somewhere. It also does destroy their internal organs and makes them infertile if used as Dick Dutrow is doing with Big Brown and is so widely accepted that he has the confidence to announce it to the whole world. It seems like if Big Brown wins the Triple Crown that the belief will be once again ingrained and certainly will encourage those who think it is absolutely okay to inject horses with a steroid once a month for nothing other than keeping their appetite sharp and their attitude focused and aggressive. It also is totally insane to try and prove that Eight Belles did not have steroids in her systmem nowas it most likely happend when she was being prepped for the sales.

This is where the real criminal brainwashing begins when in the past if someone had admitted to that, they would have been banished with scorn from the community of great and good trainers and owners, probabaly still are, but you never hear that discussion in the daily drivel called the news media. Very few have the courage to come out and identify where the criminal indifference starts.

And just FYI, if the only meat available was horse meat, I’d be a vegetarian. I have that much empathy for domestic animals.

I find that statement quite silly actually.

Pigs, cows, chickens, goats, rabbits, cats, dogs, and horses are all domestic animals.

I have a lot of empathy for domestic animals. My many pet animals tend to die of old age ( got a 19 year old cat now who is still bringing me bunnies…) and are indulged to the benefit of their health.

Do I think cows or pigs or chickens are dumb enough to eat?
No. My experience with all of them is that they are intelligent, affectionate animals when kept as pets. Still, I love my roast chicken, my occasional steak and bacon.

I’ve trained pigs, horses, cows, cats and dogs to do various things.
My opinion is that Pigs are among the smartest of domestic animals, often easier to train than dogs. Cows are not as smart as horses, generally, but still they are smart enough to learn a couple of dozen words and respond to at least that many verbal requests with obedience generally slower, but as good, as a horse.

Would I eat horse, cat or dog as a matter of course? Probably not, but when in rome… and when in Paris, one of the great culinary experiences was a restaurant where horse was a specialty. It was excellent and culturally appropriate and the hroses were raised as meat animals. I don’t see the difference between eating horse and cow except as a learned cultural taboo. Refusal to eat one or the other does not make you a more empathetic person. I mean, you’re still eating something with a face, except you’ve been brainwashed to believe that one is acceptable and another isn’t.

As for vegan being “greener” than omnivore? Bullshit. Depends on where you live. The main determinant of green is the production of greenhouse gases. Producing soy protein is hugely wasteful of carbon based fuels as it needs to be transported long distances from the growing area. Eat locally. Read about the 100 mile diet. In the arctic for example, where I worked for several years, it is definitely greener to be an exclusive carnivore than to be vegan.

Would I still eat meat if I had to kill it myself?
Definitely. Have done. I don’t enjoy the hunting/killing process any more than having one of my pets euthanized, but in a pinch I will do it.

What is wrong with horse slaughter is the inhumane conditions of (and long hours of) transport, the poor design of SOME facilities ( see temple grandin’s designs for humane killing facilities, which are often followed in canada).

Allowing for local slaughter and having people directly involved in the process as part of the local food supply will go a long way to providing more humane conditions for all our food animals. Banning horse slaughter has had the opposite effect, just as I and many others predicted 5 years ago when the main lobbying was gaining speed.

Didn’t someone comment the other day that horsemeat is no longer used for pet food (which is what I believed as well) and someone else thought that it still was?

http://kjct8.com/Global/story.asp?S=8378808

areaonablealternativeform of euthanasia?

teven showed the process of slaughter! EM Walker ; the\AAEP called slaughter a reasonable alternative to euthanasia; or euthanasia. from what I have seen and heard :eek:it is in No way either Euthanasia or humane. what is your feeling about this? and what did you see?

The term “reasonable” is relative to the person who uses it County thinks it’s reasonable…others do not.

Carol Ames, many, many of the institutions who support slaughter do so for financial reasons. For example, AQHA, which is paid for new registrations, promotes overbreeding and thus, promotes slaughter to keep those registration dollars coming. AVMA’s memberships include many, many meat inspection vets. I have no idea why AAEP would support horse slaughter unless it’s policy making people were bought, or actually believe the nonsense the others are spouting. The cattlemen are actually afraid that if horse slaughter ends, cattle slaughter will be next. (They may be right about the demise of their industry as they now practice it, but it won’t be because we stop slaughtering horses.)

About a year ago I read an article about the AAEP’s support of slaughter and basically they said (sic) “We’d rather have a horse get slaughtered than starve to death on someone’s farm who can’t afford to feed them.”

I would also much rather see livestock be slaughtered then starve to death. I’ve seen cattle that starved to death and its not pretty by any means would much rather seen them used to feed people. To me whats rather sad are those who hope others die or get sick from the food they eat. Disgusting.

[QUOTE=county;3244672]
I would also much rather see livestock be slaughtered then starve to death. I’ve seen cattle that starved to death and its not pretty by any means would much rather seen them used to feed people. To me whats rather sad are those who hope others die or get sick from the food they eat. Disgusting.[/QUOTE]

Nobody wants to see a horse, err livestock, starve. That doesn’t mean they couldn’t euthanize it or at the very least, shoot it with a high caliber rifle. I really don’t hope for people who eat horse meat to die, but I wouldn’t lose sleep if they did. I do wonder if the saying “stable to table in 7 days” is true, how in the hell can the meat be clean and safe. Racehorses have all sorts of shit in their system. I’m not an expert on how long drugs like Clen Buterol, Epogen, Regumate can stay in a horse’s system and if they can have a negative effect on people who eat the meat.

Shooting livestock isn’t exactly a way to make any money unless you shoot them and then sell the meat. I’d never use anything but a .22 when I shoot livestock way to messy and a .22 is all thats needed to kill one before it hits the ground. All meat from horses passes the inspections for the country it goes to I’ve head nothing about people getting sick and dying from the meat and its been going over seas for decades. I know it makes some people unhappy theres been no deaths or sickness from it but I’d be much more concerned about the meat here in the U.S. are track record isn’t exactly great.

[QUOTE=county;3244739]
Shooting livestock isn’t exactly a way to make any money unless you shoot them and then sell the meat. I’d never use anything but a .22 when I shoot livestock way to messy and a .22 is all thats needed to kill one before it hits the ground. All meat from horses passes the inspections for the country it goes to I’ve head nothing about people getting sick and dying from the meat and its been going over seas for decades. I know it makes some people unhappy theres been no deaths or sickness from it but I’d be much more concerned about the meat here in the U.S. are track record isn’t exactly great.[/QUOTE]

Sure, a .22 would be fine for a lot of people, but I wouldn’t want to be around when they miss the spot.

Why do you insist on people making a couple bucks on the meat? Why not creamate the horse. A bullet, some gas, and a match, how much does that cost an owner who is to cheap to pay $50-$60 to euthanize it?

The reason I like a .22 is because I’ve seen people miss the spot with something larger, way to messy.

I don’t insist people make money selling meat thats totally a personal choice. Myself I raise livestock as part of my living and sell meat. If someone would rather turn it to ashes I have no problem with that its their animal as long as what they do with them is legal thats their choice.