I can’t say enough good things about my experience with them. I’m in Upstate NY so it’s about a 6-7 hour haul for us to get there but I wouldn’t hesitate to go back! They really were top notch.
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I didn’t say they can’t be born with ulcers. I hadn’t heard it before, which means I just learned it. I learn multiple things a day from COTH, which is why I love it. What I meant was foals can ALSO get ulcers from being accidentally separated from Mum. I haven’t researched it but they did not day why the finals are born with ulcers. It would be interesting to see if that is different country to country or with different feeds for the mum, etc.
What you say is perfect management may be different to what I do. For a start we are not in a cold country so everything is different. I swear black and blue by my chiropractor and farrier. I won’t use anyone else. You don’t have access to them.
Each horse is managed for what they need. So each is managed differently. Sim with his mental problems, he was sacked by 2 good horsemen. He is the hardest horse I have ever retrained. He is not a pet which I keep telling my husband not to feed by hand.
He is a completely changed horse. But it didn’t happen overnight. He is not kept in a paddock but can visit anyone and loves looking over the foals next door. He came because he had bitten at the riding school, oropeza feeding tests by hand, kicked, Sim will treat you fairness. His fairness was very high when he came. He has relaxed this since. He used to leave his feed to attack if you went past him when eating. I nipped that in the bud.
Stars had ulcers and couldn’t put on weight. He is kept in a paddock as he was being mercilessly bullied as he is too meek.
Dodge was a school horse. When we went to get him he was so hyped on grain and kept separate that when the girl went to get him he reared and she only had a short lead rope. We let him out in a paddock and he cantered for 3 days. He was in a yard not ridden for months on grain and it turned him into a lunatic.
Off the grain he has never reared. He is put with Sim. He doesn’t canter every minute of the day and we recently had to lock him up in a stable for an injury.
I watched him leading him out of the stable the first day but no mellow old Dodge and he has turned into such a lovebug. I mean he always used to give hugs even when he was a school horse but this had ramped up since being in the stable. Which was the opposite to him being locked in a yard the time before not on our watch.
It could be that we ride differently, train differently, lunge differently, feed differently. I can’t tell you what the difference is but as I said Stars was owned by a vet nurse with free veterinary advice and with her Stars was soft, had ulcers and bucked 100% on the lunge. She sold him because she wanted a horse that she didn’t have to ride 3 times a week.
She was also having lessons with a great instructor and I had a lesson on him with her instructor and watched him ride him. She was so honest about every problem with him. He was in a paddock not a stable. So I am guessing you could say with her she was not clueless, and had perfect management. It is the horses that say if it is perfect management not the owners.
He is now an air fern, has never bucked on the lunge, is normal to groom and I don’t notice if I dont ride him for a week or 2 or 3.
So as I said I can’t tell you why your horse has ulcers that you can’t fix. I can’t tell you how to manage your horse as I have not met your horse and have no experience in your country.
You can not send him to me and I can not come to you because of the pandemic.
So you need to listen to your horse about what he needs, not what every other in the world needs. It may be different to the nearest horse.
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Or, it’s because you get the horses that people are not managing well at all, turning them into problem horses, and you fix the management.
Poor management - too much stall time, turnout with the wrong herd, high sugar feeds, poor training, poor hoof care, poor saddle fit, poor riding skills - all of those things can cause ulcers.
That is not the same as “good management prevents ulcers”
Nobody has said that the exact same treatment of a horse - same feed, same turnout, same stall time - works for every horse, clearly that is not the case.
Some of us are saying ulcers happen no matter what someone does or doesn’t do
You don’t do anything differently from people here who rehab horses do, including people who get horses off the track with raging ulcers and turn them into high performance horses without them.
And even those people who have successfully fixed ulcers in many horses, still end up with a horse who, despite all the right things, have to constantly manage them against ulcers, or they return
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My vet was not suggesting a lifetime of acing her to trailer. Just as a way to make sure the ulcers didn’t re-occur. We’re also talking about 1 cc for a 1400 lb horse. It definitely helped in the spring, but I probably only hunted 4 or 5 times. I won’t know about this fall because I broke my ankle and am out for the season.
I do know people who Ace for every hunt. It’s not my preference, but I’m not as horrified as I was when I first encountered it. Now, I was lucky because my first hunt horse was extremely level headed and easy to ride in the hunt field. I’d never heard of acing a horse for any reason. My TB needed some help when we started. He turned into a great hunt horse but the excitement was a bit overwhelming at first.
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Yes Andy (Angel of Peace) was off the track, raced 5 weeks prior, raging ulcers, and the owner sent through an A4 size fax with SHOOT HIM written in capital letters. I was told he hated peope, he would hide behind trees not to be caught and you can’t spray him.
Andy loved it here and was in a 50 acre paddock. He was waiting at the gate every morning to be ridden and if not came galloping. If you came to visit, as far as he was concerned you had come solely to play with him. In the racing game he had always been told what to do and the spraying was the only time he voiced an opinion.
Here he had a voice and eventually I could spray him without a halter on.
Stars’ owner tried everything with him for him with a vet and a good instructor and turnout, why do you say she had poor management and turned him into a problem horse?
Most people who send horses to trainers are people who have a problem with a horse. That is not unusual. You end up listening to the horse not the owner.
The last one that came here she called him lazy. He was not lazy from the first step. Just allow him to go when asked.
Most horses the problem is the owner, that is not unusual either.
I have a vet I trust as well if I came across a problem he would be the first one I call. I have called him about other things, so far not ulcers. Maybe in my second lifetime with horses I will come across one that needs that but so far I haven’t.
I have applied for a job as a dressage rider/groom near by. If I get that there are 40 horses in stables. I might get the experience there. I hope to learn a lot.
My horse went from being at home on my farm to a boarding situation to another boarding situation. From the outside observer, they wouldn’t have noticed a big difference in the way the horse was kept at my home and the first boarding situation. 24/7 turn-out on plenty of grass. Access to shelter at all times. Other horses to keep him company. Light riding and lots of love.
But to the horse? Big difference. He went from laid back and chilled out to a nervous wreck. For the better part of 2 YEARS he acted every day like he’d just gotten to a strange place (like a show). Wouldn’t relax. Always looky and prone to spook at any moment.
He was finally, FINALLY starting to settle down a bit (and had some spans of more relaxed behavior over the time we were there), when I decided to move him.
He settled into his new farm in just a few days. Happy as a clam. He was stalled more during the heat of the day. At the previous barn he HATED to be stalled. Totally loves it at this barn. He’s gained weight on LESS feed. He acts like he’s home now.
His stressors at the previous barn included irregular feeding schedule, incompatible herd mates, and just a general atmosphere of clutter and chaos that wasn’t conducive to MY horse’s well-being. He definitely got ulcery at the former place. Lost weight, was touchy to groom, tense and spooky, diarrhea. I felt so bad for him. I thought he’d just have to deal with it. Thank goodness we found our “home” at our current barn. It’s spectacular.
I think when you have horses at home you can cater to their individual needs much more than a BO or BM can (or will) in a lot of boarding situations. The horses either have to fit into that style of management or they’ll have issues and/or will need to find another place.
My barn is small, only three horses (room for one more when the BO gets a new partner). The BO lives on property and treats the horses like her own. She’s very conscientious and goes above and beyond to tailor each horse’s care to their specific needs. We have an IR mare who requires a lot of special management, and our BO does it with a smile. She loves taking care of the horses. She calls or texts me if my horse has a scratch on him, seems stiff, or is running out of flyspray! She is meticulous about keeping the barn and pastures neat and clean and safe.
But not everyone can have this. A lot of people can’t. Most horses can kind of adapt to whatever situation, but a lot of them can’t. And those guys need extra help to feel happy and healthy.
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Scope is being done on Wednesday. And thank goodness because since coming off all the meds he’s worse—really sucking in his stomach and today we had no right bend (was only walking and trotting) and he was carrying himself like something hurt.
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Ouch Poor boy. I hope you find an answer.
Yes @RhythmNCruise that is why my instructor gave us Sim. He just wasn’t happy there. My instructor said that for some horses it reminds them of racing. So he sent him to us. Other horses are as happy as clams there.
Have you considered giving him some ulcer meds before trailering? Or a serving of Outlast?
Yes, he gets Nexium.
So horse has grade 3 ulcers, including pyloric ulcers. Treatment is gastroguard, sucralfate, and misoprostol. Will re-scope in a month. I’m glad he’s on all three meds, especially since I wonder if his hindgut is bothering him too. Diet changes to follow more slowly; and for now those meds are going to mean 4-5 small meal plus free choice hay. I’m happy we have a diagnosis and hope he will feel better soon.
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Jingles to your horse! I’m in the same boat with my guy now. It’s a tough road. Hopefully you can get them cleared up!
It’s always a relief to know exactly what you’re dealing with. Now you have a good plan and are heading in the right direction. Hugs to you and your boy. 
Agree with posters suggesting there may be a pain component.
I have battled ulcers with my horse for 3 years. You would keel over if you knew how much I had spent on meds. It wasn’t until I was able to find the likely source of pain that things improved. It really was peeling back layer after layer over time; plenty of days it felt like we were going backwards but eventually things got righted.
Like others, I had to keep a very watchful eye and when his anxiety level was going up, or I saw him put his teeth on a fence board, or when he trashed his stall - those are all his ‘tells’ that his stomach doesn’t feel good. He is also an internalizer and it may turn out that he is always like this and needs careful management, but it is so much better than it was now that I’ve managed the physical pain component.
My advice is to look for the ‘tells’ in your horse that may give you insight to where he hurts. Tail rubbing? Dragging a toe? These are tiny things that helped add up to a place I could explore an issue.
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To head off on a slight tangent, I had no idea racehorses were SO prone to ulcers (approx. 90% compared to 60% of pleasure horses in full work). Limited access to roughage and high stress situations, I mean, it makes sense … but I’d never looked into it much.
I’d love to know more about the conditions under which the 60% of pleasure horses in full work are kept, because 60% sounds rather high. Are we to assume that these pleasure horses are regularly competing, on individual turnout, or have limited access to forage? Inquiring minds …!
Consider the anatomy of the stomach. The top is unlined, and the acid there is the highest pH (but still acidic)
The lower portion is lined, and acid is lower pH.
Down near the exit (pyloric valve), the acid is in the 2.0pH range or even a little lower.
A horse doing his own thing, mostly walking, trickle feeding on grass or hay, that forages creates a bit of a mat floating around the top of the stomach juices, and walking doesn’t disturb it much. Even any antics of running and playing are pretty short-lived. And then he goes back to walking and eating.
Now imagine the ridden horse, even the pleasure horse. It’s maybe 30 minutes by the time he’s pulled out gets groomed, tacked up, walked around, and THEN the work starts for another 30-60 minutes.
Mostly empty stomach, and prolonged acid sloshing that acid up onto the unprotected upper stomach
And that’s even assuming the horse was munching on hay/grass before he was retrieved - maybe he’d been without hay in his stall for an hour.
And then there’s the show horse who’s often spending more time without forage, and doing more work in that time.
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As a note of encouragement, the horse I mentioned above (who had worse findings on scope) is now happy, calm, mellow and enjoying his job. And being a VERY good boy.
I will probably keep him on the OutLast and the omeprazole for the rest of his life, and, of course, be mindful of his management.
They are different horses when their stomachs don’t hurt.
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This gives me a little bit of peace, thank you. I’m in the same boat with my guy. We’ve done extensive treatment/management changes. He’s had a thorough lameness workup that revealed nothing beyond needing his trim tweaked and the ulcers. His stomach was 90% clear after 3 months on GG and misoprostol. Weaned him off the GG.
8 weeks later, his pylorus is still healed (Hallelujah), but he’s a mess of squamous ulcers which were previously not a problem. His pH was >2.0. During this time, he’s been licking his feed bucket clean, eating great. Not girthy or grumpy about being groomed. Coming along beautifully under saddle. Putting on weight and muscle. He might be one that has to live on some form of Omeprazole forever. If that’s all it takes to keep him happy and comfortable, I’ll deal.
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I can’t wait to see how he feels once we’ve really treated this. For now, with the combination of meds, he’s getting 4 grain meals a day, which to him is the best. Thing. Ever. Breakfast! Lunch! Dinner! A late night snack!
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Hi wise folks,
So horse was re-scoped and after four weeks of GG, sucralfate, and misoprostol, gastric ulcers have healed but still has pyloric ulcers. Interestingly, he went from a single large lesion on his pyloric region to more general inflammation/multiple smaller lesions. So not worse…but different. Vet wasn’t sure why this would be, but since pyloric ulcers can take longer to heal, vet said another four weeks of GG plus misoprostol (but discontinued sucralfate as he didn’t think it would add any additional benefit at this point). Continued GG is to keep tummy healed while glandular ulcers hopefully continue to heal.
Horse also had full lameness work up and some mild responses to flexions, had hocks and SIs injected last week.
He’s definitely happier under saddle in last two weeks and has put some weight back on, but still needs to gain more back. We also removed wheat from his diet so he’s on 24/7 hay, alfalfa pellets, copra, and a nutritional supplement to give him everything else.
I’m now going down the rabbit hole of reading about glandular ulcers and what gets them to heal. Any thoughts? I hope we’re on the right track…
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