Ulcers the possible cause of a spooky horse??

[Horse_are_my_life190]

Sorry to make another thread on this. All the replies I’ve gotten from this forum have been very helpful and I appreciate everyone helping me here on COTH!

My 6 year old ottb has gone off grain and displays almost all the signs of ulcers. He is being treated unsuccessfully right now but I’m getting a new medication for him and I’m hoping that solves it.

Anyways, can ulcers actually cause a horse to be extremely spooky/sensitive? This guy is usually so laid back and now I question my sanity (and how I could get to the hospital) when I get on him. I can’t really find anything about this online so I’m hoping some people with experiance with ulcers here can help me out.

Thanks!

[Simkie]

Yes. Treat the horse as you’ve been guided on the various other threads.

[Horse_are_my_life190]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8122007]
Yes. Treat the horse as you’ve been guided on the various other threads.[/QUOTE]
Ok thank you. Every time I bring it up my vet looks at me like I’m crazy. Just wanted other people’s experiances.

[IPEsq]

Yes

[findeight]

What med have you been using and at what dose and what are you switching to and the dose you plan on???

And, yes, ulcers can make them spooky, even if not the sole cause, they sure can make it worse. I know I am crankier with a belly ache.

[Horse_are_my_life190]

[QUOTE=findeight;8122180]
What med have you been using and at what dose and what are you switching to and the dose you plan on???

And, yes, ulcers can make them spooky, even if not the sole cause, they sure can make it worse. I know I am crankier with a belly ache.[/QUOTE]

I’ve been using a compounded omperazole at 20cc. Changing to omperazole and L’glutamine. Not sure of dose as its not ready for pickup until Monday and vet left dosing directions with it. I’ve also added a pre and pro biotic plus a magneium supplement

[J-Lu]

[QUOTE=Horse_are_my_life190;8122225]
I’ve been using a compounded omperazole at 20cc. Changing to omperazole and L’glutamine. Not sure of dose as its not ready for pickup until Monday and vet left dosing directions with it. I’ve also added a pre and pro biotic plus a magneium supplement[/QUOTE]

Omeprazole is the only active ingredient here that will treat ulcers. Compounded omeprazole doesn’t always work well. What does s/he think adding L-glutamine, and amino acid, will change if your horse indeed has ulcers and isn’t responding to omeprazole? L-glutamine does nothing to regulate stomach acid. What is the brand name of the product your vet is prescribing? That might clear up my questions.

I’m very surprised that sudden “spookiness” or “reactiveness” doesn’t make your vet think of ulcers, and that your vet frowns on ulcers. Do you use a good vet who is current on equine medicine?

ETA: consider changing vets and getting your horse actually scoped for ulcers. You’ll pay as much in supplements as you’ll pay for scoping, but with endoscopy, at least you’ll know what you’re actually dealing with.

[Horse_are_my_life190]

[QUOTE=J-Lu;8122277]
Omeprazole is the only active ingredient here that will treat ulcers. Compounded omeprazole doesn’t always work well. What does s/he think adding L-glutamine, and amino acid, will change if your horse indeed has ulcers and isn’t responding to omeprazole? L-glutamine does nothing to regulate stomach acid. What is the brand name of the product your vet is prescribing? That might clear up my questions.

I’m very surprised that sudden “spookiness” or “reactiveness” doesn’t make your vet think of ulcers, and that your vet frowns on ulcers. Do you use a good vet who is current on equine medicine?

ETA: consider changing vets and getting your horse actually scoped for ulcers. You’ll pay as much in supplements as you’ll pay for scoping, but with endoscopy, at least you’ll know what you’re actually dealing with.[/QUOTE]

The vet and I think the majority of his problems are in the hind gut that is why l’glutamine was prescribed and he wasn’t scoped. Not sure on brand name as I don’t have the actual product yet but I’m thinking its genaric.

Vet is very current in equine medicine and specializes in equines. If she’s “good” well I’m still trying to determine that. Thinking of changing vets.

[Laurierace]

The problem with using generics or alternative treatments without scoping is if it doesn’t help you have no idea if it is because the horse did not have ulcers in the first place or the product you tried did not work.

[FindersKeepers]

As others said, yes spooky behavior can absolutely be a symptom of ulcers.

In my experience, using compounded products for symptoms as significant as you describe is throwing your money away. Bite the bullet and do a full course of gastroguard

[findeight]

Not to diss your vet but “thinking” the horse has a hind gut problem without scoping to rule anything else out? What, you got a crystal ball? Remember vets don’t volunteer to spend your money on diagnostics and unless you ask for and authorize them? Not going do bring it up.

I think half the issue with diagnostics on here is owners not being clear they want any and all available diagnostics or owners who want a telephone or look see diagnosis because they cannot or will not pay for the clinical procedures.

Most vets learn there is not only no gratitude for diagnostics that reveal nothing, they get stiffed and possibly trashed on social media. So be clear if you want and authorize all applicable diagnostics or want to take a more minimalist, affordable route. Vets only do what owners really want and will pay for and rarely recommend things they know the owner won’t, or can’t afford, to go for.

[Simkie]

This poster has posted this same question in three different threads she’s started, and has gotten the same answers every time. I’m really not sure what you’re looking for, Horses, with each additional thread with the same basic question and answers??

Scope the horse, look for ulcers. If you can’t do that, put the horse on ranitidine or an omeprazole that’s proven to be effective. Ask your vet how she has determined efficacy of the omeprazole she’s prescribing for your horse. If she doesn’t have a good answer (and that answer SHOULD BE “I have done scoping studies that have shown this to be effective”) then find a new vet. If you like her otherwise and don’t want to bother with finding a new vet over this issue, go to wal-mart and buy their ranitidine. Start the horse on it tonight. If you want to treat with omeprazole, then order from Abler today but ALSO start the horse on ranitidine now, as shipping from Abler can take some time.

If you want to treat the hind gut, use something that’s been proven to do that–and I don’t think l-glutamine on it’s own has? Equishure and Succeed are the general go-tos for that area of the gut. The Succeed people have a 2 month challenge where they will reimburse the cost of the product if it’s not effective. (Read through all the rules and such first, and save the boxes–someone here posted that you do need the UPCs off the box to get your refund.)

This is really not something to waffle on and not treat appropriately. You’re seeing behavioral issues and the horse isn’t eating–which is suggestive that his stomach is pretty bad. You can’t know for sure how bad he is without scoping, but horses CAN die from gastric ulceration if the ulceration is bad enough to hemorrhage. It’s an unlikely result, but a good reason to either scope the horse and see exactly what you’re dealing with, or to just treat the horse with an appropriate drug that’s proven to work.

You’ll notice that “proven efficacy” is a sticking point here. Omeprazole is degraded by the acid in the stomach and needs protection to get through that environment where it can be absorbed by the body. Without an effective buffer or coating, you’re throwing your money down the tubes. The only SURE THING with regard to omeprazole is GastroGard/UlcerGard, which is pricy but effective. There are various other compounded products and things produced by other companies that are very much a grey area–some have had good results (like the Abler products, lots of discussion here about their “blue pop rocks”) and some vets have done scoping studies on compounded products from certain pharmacies (I have a vet that’s done this.)

There are a whole lot of red flags coming through from your vet. It’s certainly up to you how to proceed, but keep in mind that treating for 2 weeks with a compounded product that hasn’t been proven to work (now we’re back to scoping studies) is basically a gigantic gamble…and I don’t think there is any research that will show two weeks of anything–even GastroGard–will be effective to treat a stomach full of ulcers.

[ladipus]

If your vet suspects hind gut…Succeed makes a fecal blood test kit-worth a try, and Succeed Oral Paste Syringes works wonders…also gastroguard has specials now that make it )30/tube if you buy more than 10…you could always buy a week or twos worth of GG to see if your baby gets better…you’ll often see results after a few doses …also Lyme disease can cause spookiness-pull blood and check…as can vision problems…other products that also work really well are Finish Lines U7 Gastric Aide and Nutracell Labs Ulcer Aide Liquid…I suggest giving them orally with a syringe to make sure you’re horse is getting full dose if he’s not eating well . Other medications for hind gut ulcers are Sucralfate and Misoprostyl

[Horse_are_my_life190]

I’m going to add to this thread. I’ve noticed improvement in appitite since starting a pro and pre biotic. Still not great but he’s starting to finish some meals. I’m still doing the 20cc omeprazole. I’m suppose to pick up the omperazole and l’glutamine Monday and do a month of that. Could the l’glutamine cause harm if he’s getting better? At this point I don’t have enough omprazole left to wean him off. Should I still do the month of l’glutamine and omprazole?

[bigolebay]

The l-glutamine would be added for the hindgut.