I sold a yearling half welsh pony filly as unregistered to a lady several years ago. I chose not to register this filly for various reasons. She sold it to a lady who then bred the mare to a reg. sec B and then registered the foal half welsh with the CLRC. She recorded the dam with my herd prefix without my knowledge or approval. That name is now printed on the foals reg papers. I found out and contacted CLRC and said I wanted my herd name removed and was told that I shouldn’t worry as my pony (the dam) wasnt registered but only recorded. I told her that regardless I didnt give permission to use it and it is in printed form on the papers and online and now in the studbook. After much and I mean MUCH correspondence back and forth, CLRC finally agreed (reluctanctly) to remove it and replace it with what the breeder wanted. I figured it was finally over. Months passed and I checked online and was shocked to see the only change they did was to add the breeders prefix on in front of my prefix. I emailed the breeder about my disgust and she said it was the CLRC’s ideal to add her prefix on to the front of the dams name. I have been emailing regularly along with one of the directors who is working with me on this as well, for months to the secretary and the president of the CDN. Welsh Assoc. but for months nether of us have never even had the courtesy of a reply. Finally at the beginning of Sept. I was emailed from head office and told it was to be dealt with at an executive meeting on Sept. 25 and they would be in contact after the meeting. Six weeks has gone by, I have emailed and phoned and left messages and I have not received any correspondence or reply on this. Nothing has changed on the online CLRC pedigree site.
I reserved and paid for my ‘exclusive’ herd name and that it was only allowed to be used by ME and not by anyone who just so happens to want to record a pony with my herd name, whether it was bred by me or not.
It will be a year in February since this has started. I am so totally frustrated I think my only option now would be to hire a lawyer. Although I believe I shouldn’t have to fight for what I legally paid for…an exclusive herd name…period…to be used exclusively by me. Of course this is more on principal than anything else and it has left a very bad taste in my mouth,why would I want to be a member of an organization that freely takes your money yet goes against their own constitution and rules and then gives you the silent treatment. IF the CLRC allows this whats to stop others from putting ANYONE’s prefix on the front of any recorded pony??? What are your thoughts???
I would be furious too. I’d probably get an attorney to send a letter (do you have any friends that are attorneys?) and see what that did.
I’m so sorry. As a breeder with a well known prefix, I’ve had to put out brushfires on many occasions, so I feel your fury!
Perhaps I am misunderstanding. Do you just want that portion of the mares name off or do you want the mares name removed entirely so it states unknown ? Fact is in MOST half bred organizations they like to have the horses name if possible to record the breeding. I find it unfair to ask her to place it as unknown. However I DO side with you on having the exclusive portion of the name removed. I can understand that. However do understand that many times a organization may side with the register as they want a recording of future offspring and a way to establish a bloodline. Ultimately once you have sold a foal it is no longer in your control. She could put it through grade horse registry or something else out there performance horse whatever with the name. I see it as no different than if I don’t release the stallion certificate but years down the line someone registers say an Arab made with the half breed registry. There is no way for me to stop them recording my stallions name on there.
I just want my herd name off the front. The resulting foal is something that I dont want my herd name associated with. This breeder is now using my herd name in her advertising to try and sell this foal…citing performance records of some of my other ponies although this foal is not related to any of those.
[QUOTE=mouse;7249349]
Finally at the beginning of Sept. I was emailed from head office and told it was to be dealt with at an executive meeting on Sept. 25 and they would be in contact after the meeting. Six weeks has gone by, I have emailed and phoned and left messages and I have not received any correspondence or reply on this.[/QUOTE]
Welcome to the Welsh Pony & Cob Society of Canada. (banging head on desk) It’s one of the many reasons I resigned as a Director and quit volunteering after several years of trying to help make a change, as everything seems to fall on deaf ears there.
Yes, Daventry, I seem to hear that quite a bit! I remember you and that you were VERY active and did lots for the Association. It’s a shame that those in control are just able to do as they please (and as little as they please.) Grrrrrr!
[QUOTE=mouse;7249741]
Yes, Daventry, I seem to hear that quite a bit! I remember you and that you were VERY active and did lots for the Association. It’s a shame that those in control are just able to do as they please (and as little as they please.) Grrrrrr![/QUOTE]
Yeah, unfortunately, you are dealing with an uphill battle. 
Currently, a breeder can register a grey foal out of two non-grey parents…or you can register a palomino foal out of a black stallion and a chestnut mare. I approached the WPCSC in regards to the issue. They gave me the go ahead to research it, provide detailed information on proper color rules, etc. I worked on it for months and months, and when it was finally presented to the WPCSC, the WPCSC’s stance on the issue is that it is up to the breeder to decide what color their foal is. (again, banging head on desk) Why did I bother doing all that work? I finally gave up. 
Do you mind pm’ing me who you are?
A lawyer’s letter would carry some weight…this sounds just plain wrong.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7249795]
A lawyer’s letter would carry some weight…this sounds just plain wrong.[/QUOTE]
Agreed!
[QUOTE=Daventry;7249766]
the WPCSC’s stance on the issue is that it is up to the breeder to decide what color their foal is. (again, banging head on desk)[/QUOTE]
Yeah and apparently it seems up to the breeder as to whom ever’s prefix you want to use on the foal too!!! (banging head on desk right along with you…)
Daventry, sent you an email.
Mouse - check with the gov’t sites for the Pedigree Livestock Act. There is/was something in there about farm prefixes at one time. Worth a shot at any rate since all registries are under some control from there.
Ah understood. I can understand not wanting that. What is the mares registered name ? If it is that then I don’t see a recourse. If it is just something attached then they have no right to add it especially if exclusive. That being said I am not nor do I claim to be welsh pony informed so I can’t speak to their specifics. Bottom line I would think though is if that is the mares registered name and can be matched via DNA then not much you can do. We all know sometimes we get breedings we didn’t want or are not proud of the foals. Unfortunately it happens and as breeders we can choose to have the mares spayed or stallions gelded that were the resulting foals but ultimately the production of that baby good or bad was a conscious decision of ours and we must take responsibility for it. If that means having that name on a piece of paper well that was a chance we took and I don’t think that she is any more in the wrong promoting his siblings performance records to sell as you would be. Just my opinion.
[QUOTE=mouse;7249741]
Yes, Daventry, I seem to hear that quite a bit! I remember you and that you were VERY active and did lots for the Association. It’s a shame that those in control are just able to do as they please (and as little as they please.) Grrrrrr![/QUOTE]
Not a member of that organization, but speaking from experience, your description could fit at least one other breed organization.
Sorry for your trouble. As someone who changed suffixes a couple of times and added a shortened version, AND paid every time, I would be furious if I found out someone added my suffix to a pedigree without my permission. I say keep after them. It sounds like a huge hassle, but in the end, maybe they will get so sick of you they may finally listen just to make you go away. 
Good luck!
Fire_911medic, I think the OP said that the horses the person was promoting were not even related to the horse in question. The person was just using then to her advantage.
While nobody should be misrepresenting a foal as being related to horses that it’s not, it does bring up an interesting question. You did breed the foal. You didn’t think it was of breedable quality so didn’t register it yourself but you still produced it. Breeders need to be responsible for everything that they put out there and an excellent way to have that happen is to keep prefixes/suffixes with the horses you produced. Keeping breeders names can’t only be important to breeders if they’re happy with the results.
[QUOTE=fire_911medic;7250294]
I don’t think that she is any more in the wrong promoting his siblings performance records to sell as you would be.[/QUOTE]
Better read the OP’s problem again. She clearly stated the pony currently for sale and being promoted is in no way related to the OP’s other pony who is doing well out on the show circuit. As I see it, the other breeder basically added the OP’s prefix into the ponies pedigree to help promote the sale of her own foal. Pretty crappy if you ask me. And even crappier is that a registry Society went ahead and let her do so…even though Society rules state the owner of the prefix is the only one that can use said prefix. :no:
If the horse is not related then IT IS MY FAULT for misunderstanding and I will apologize to original poster. It was my understanding that it was a sibling or half sibling of the horses she was promoting it to be. Also understood it as the mare (dam) had the prefix and the person put that name on the foals papers. Now that being said if that isn’t the horses name it shouldn’t be listed as such. But stating it is out of the same stallion as so and so who is successful ISN’T wrong. No different than stating this horse is out of a line of proven performers. On that note you bred it. Like it or not your name IS associated with that foal. But if not the horses name shouldn’t be listed as such. As previously stated whatever your reason for not registering the foal it doesn’t relieve you of that responsibility. As breeders we are responsible for what we produce. Good or bad. No matter how hard we try and research it doesn’t come out how we want and only claiming the good puts a false perspective on future matings. Plays to your advantage to only register and show the good ones nobody likes to show their failures. However they are there and a responsible breeders claims it all. I have more respect for breeders who say this just didn’t work don’t think we want to try that again than ones that just register the nice ones. I guarantee you for every good foal a stallion produces there are bad ones out there and the responsible owner will say I messed up, let’s not do that again but I’m not going to make a horse which might not be what you wanted but was a decent and honest horse for something else worth less because you didn’t want to register it. Might turn out to be an awesome driving pony but will be worth less with no papers. Harder to prove for insurance. All my babies good bad or okay register and well if they aren’t dressage horses that is okay ! They can be versatile. Fine by me I just won’t do that cross again as I breed for dressage.
Actually, hypothetically speaking, if the OP did not register the foal because she thought it should not be bred (and I don’t know if that was the reason), then I applaud her effort. While there is obviously no way to prevent someone else from breeding her, it could be an attempt to discourage someone from breeding her. (Again, this is a hypothetical example; OP did not state specific reasons for not registering the horse.) As was stated, the horse could possibly go on to be a successful mount under saddle or driving (unless there was a physical issue to prevent that from happening).
I don’t see the OP selling an unregistered horse as not taking responsibility for the horse. Depending on the reason she wasn’t registered, it could be an attempt to remove it from the gene pool (culling it without killing it). I would consider doing the same thing, if I had a cross that did not work, then I would do as suggested and never breed that cross again.
I have a different take on this. I breed Jack Russell Terriers. Every puppy carries my prefix. Some are outstanding, many are average, and there are a few out there that I’m very disappointed in. But that doesn’t mean I can walk away from them, or deny them. Were they my best breeding efforts? No. I have sold certain puppies with spay/neuter contracts. Most people honored them. Two horse trainers turned their bitches into defacto puppy machines when they found they could add a couple of thousand dollars to their coffers every year. They were prohibited from using MY prefix on their puppies, but they certainly were entitled to register/record the pup they bought from me with my prefix. And my prefix SHOULD have been on the offspring’s pedigrees.
OP you bred a conformationally incorrect, or a not accepted colored, or ill tempered, or untalented foal. It happens. Nobody wants to admit they’ve bred a bad one. In dog breeding, that’s the equivalent of whelping a litter with a genetic defect. We have an advantage that spaying and neutering is relatively cheap. If your filly was that bad, then you should’ve either kept her or been more careful where she was placed. I don’t think you should get to deny you bred this filly/mare. She is entitled to your prefix EVEN IF SHE WAS NOT REGISTERED. You were the breeder. End of story.
Definitely misuse of prefixes allowing others to put it on their horses. The “recording” sounds like a loophole. I can certainly understand the frustration though I can’t offer any suggestion about how to fix it. Sounds like the registry is pretty set in their ways.
I know hindsight is 20/20, but if you had just registered the filly WITHOUT your prefix in the beginning it would have been a non-issue since she would have had a name already assigned. Or if you think she’s THAT bad that you just want to hide her, spay her.
