anyone know a good bit to use for a very strong pony?
i have a 14.1 gypsy cob crossed with a welsh section D who was a hunting pony. his power and strength is unbelievable!! i have only tried a hanging check lozenge which he hated as it put to much pressure on his pole… i then tried a 3 ring dutch gag/ bubble bit, he was going good in it for a while but he is now ignoring me. He tends to open his mouth and throw his head up to run from the bit. His groundwork has became awful, when i ask him to bend he goes side ways but in the opposite direction. he is very talented at jumping but he is to hard to hold, he has been a real struggle fro the past month and due to injury with my shoulder i’m scared i might have to give up on him! and i really do think its all down to getting the right bit!! someone please help!!!
Don’t take this in the wrong way, but no bit is ever going to fix this problem. It’s a training problem that you have to work through. If you can’t handle him on the ground then you probably shouldn’t be riding him. I don’t know if you have a trainer or not but if you do you should have them help you with this problem. I’m going to make an assumption (tell me if I’m wrong) and say you aren’t very dominant (not a jerk just the higher horse) and are not his lead horse. I’m not going to say exactly how you should fix it but a bigger bit will never work. Actually that’s not true, it will work but only for a little while then you will need a bigger bit and bigger and bigger. It’s a training problem not a bit problem. I’m not trying to be mean or give an attitude, promise.
Please don’t hate on me anyone, I like Rick Gore. Try watching his videos and see if you understand the horse a little more. PM me if you want to talk about Rick.
yeah your right, he just is the boss and thats the problem. i can handle him but the constant holding gets to much for my shoulder, he isnt dangerous at all. As he was only ever a hunting pony, he never even knew what a pole was! but his just taking the piss with me as i lost serious confidence after an accident, he picks up on everything his super smart unfortunately lol. im going right back to bases with him. i was super unsure about the bit situation. thankyou so much x anyone have training tips x
What country are you in?
I agree, the bit is not the only,or main thing. If you have a shoulder injury, and he is a puller or worse, you either need to trade him in on a more suitable horse for your level and physical issues (shoulder), or work with a trainer.
Edited to add, first establish a good response to the verbal command ‘whoa’, on the ground. Then, you can use that as needed when mounted.
northern ireland
and ive had my fair sure of falls but i will never give up on a pony that was thrown away, he is talented i can see it,i have competed at a high level with my trainer but this pony was given as a challenge i only came on for advice thankyou (not being rude)
Thanks for clarifying that you do have access to a trainer. Definitely, continue with the trainer.
I agree with the above. Keep training him with your trainer.
‘Once you have a horse you have no trouble getting anymore.’
This saying refers to the horses that are thrown away and given away. You cannot save them all. It takes a lot of time and a lot of money to train any horse. Put your time and money into the horse you choose.
If that is this pony so be it. But you didn’t choose him. Someone chose him for you. They didn’t have that right.
Start working at lunging him, it teaches soooooo much to them. I rushed to much with my horse and skipped the basics that needed to be done. I restarted and now she is learning so fast!
Agree with the above - all horse have power if they want to use it. A 1000lb animal could certainly have its way with any of us, but for the training. And I think that most of them “have talent” if it could be controlled.
It sounds like this pony needs more basic training; not sure exactly what just a “hunting pony” means - faster is better? Or no real under saddle training?
I think you are correct that going back to basics with him is the best approach. Sounds like he might be worth it, and worth bringing in your trainer if you can’t physically handle some aspects yet.
What kind of turnout is he getting?
Hunting pony i mean is all his ever done is hunt (fox hunting) but has some training in the arena and we keep horses in at winter but i do try to get him out when i can
You’re going to get comparable replies to the thread you posted in the H/J forum. There isn’t going to be a bit to fix an underlying training issue. Trainers and amateurs alike will have a variety of bits or training aids they may use if they determine the circumstance calls for it. However, that’s a decision that’s made with experience, reason, and knowledge behind it. Progressively going to a bigger bit each time you feel you’ve hit a wall, so to speak, isn’t going to make for a better experience or broker horse long term. Trying to out muscle a horse or pony isn’t doing either of you any favours.
Training any horse is project. It doesn’t have a time line. There are certain training concepts that seem to be more universal, but that doesn’t mean that every horse fits into these assumed averages. Just the same as people can be rather unique, so can horses. Some have more trainable brains, some don’t. Some can work for the job you want them to do, and others may be better suited training in a different discipline. You work with the horse you have, and sometimes that means going all the way back to the start.
It may be time to chat with your trainer about your confidence and the issues you’re having with your pony, if you haven’t yet. Maybe the situation warrants your trainer riding the pony for awhile. Maybe it means you two will have to go back to square one with him, and essentially start him from the ground up again. I’m not a big fan of lunging on a line frequently, but it can help with some of the handling basics. I’d be more inclined to ground drive him to reinstate some of the principles he has either forgotten or wasn’t taught originally. If he is unaccustomed to being ground driven, you could lead him at his head and your trainer could hold the lines and do the driving.
Your problem is not unique. I know sometimes for myself, when I am experiencing a set back with my own horse, it can feel very frustrating and even isolating. More often than not, though, the issue I’m facing isn’t very uncommon at all. This is why a lot of trainers, regardless of discipline, stress a good foundation. Putting a good foundation on a horse isn’t a one off job, either. It’s months and years of repetition. Even as the horse progresses under saddle, the rider is always working on the components of that foundation. It may just appear more seamless and require less and less daily fine tuning over time.
I have to ask - has he had his teeth and saddle/back checked?
Not turning happily, hollowing and mouth opening screams of a sore mouth and/or back. IMHO you can’t ask an animal to do anything unless you are as sure as you can be that there is no pain.
If they have been checked and as a long time owner of dramatic Welsh Cobs what I’ve found works best is to go right back to basics and take the pressure off both of you - battling doesn’t teach anybody anything. French link snaffle (not a lot of room in a WC mouth with a low palate and fleshy lips) loose reins and ride from your seat rather than your hands. Obviously for safety do this in an enclosed area! If this pony has been hunted in Ireland it is quite possible that all he knows is kick, point and go. It’s up to you to dial it down, refuse to argue and teach him how to use himself properly just as you would with a newly backed youngster.
Welsh Cobs are fabulous horses but not for everyone, they are the Ferraris of native breeds and do need quiet, confident riding otherwise it will go south very quickly, much quicker than people imagine when they look at a hairy cob as they tend to be sensitive. As for the Gypsy Cob side, not that many years ago a true GC was a solid, sensible pony that could turn it’s hoof to anything but in recent years they have been bred for feather and looks rather than temperament so you could easily have fire on that side too.
My main Welsh boy who I had from a foal is the silliest, most panic stricken idiot on occasion who prefers to be ridden in a plastic bit, no noseband, treeless (but that’s because he has gigantic shoulders, a short back and is as wide as he is tall so saddle fitting is a nightmare) and with a loose browband but in his 22 years has showjumped, hunted, done dressage to intermediate level, shown in hand and under saddle to county level. He also hacks in heavy traffic and over any surface. Sounds great, doesn’t it? 
That’s all on a good day. On a bad day he will still rear, nap, chuck himself all over the place because of a daffodil or a squirrel or something completely random. On those days all you can do is sit quietly saying I really don’t see what the problem is and wait - and wait for him to regain the plot. It can take some time!
If all he knows is foxhunting, it may be that his previous owners relied on him following the horse in front of him for control instead of actually getting him broke on the flat. He may actually know less then point and kick, he may only know follow the butt in front of him. It happens, and I’ve had to retrain a couple.
So I’d agree with the other posters. Start back at square one. Treat him like an unbroken pony and go through everything again, starting with ground work and teaching him to give to the bit in hand, progress through lunging and ground driving and really focus on giving to pressure, manners and obedience.
Put the mildest bit possible on him that fits his mouth conformation. In this pony’s case, bitting up is just upping the ante - it you don’t want a tug of war, don’t go armed for battle.
In your case, I think the fact that you want to protect your injured shoulder is a good thing - it will keep you from trying to overpower him or hang on him in a death grip and remind you to use your elbow, give and take and not get in a fight.
As a sidebar, it makes me sad that people have to ask what a “hunting pony” is. Shows just how far we’ve come from the origins of our sport.
Thankyou everyone for the information and advice giving. I have put him into a simple snaffle and worked on only walking and givinf n taking the reins and loads of walk to halt transition. His teeth were done 2 weeks ago n his back is getting done just to make sure x
“Re-break” the horse. Start from the beginning all over again. Teach him to give to pressure, all sorts of pressures. Reward for the correct response. This is “ground work”. Once you get him responding to you in a positive manner, trying to be obedient for you, listening to you, at walk, trot, and canter on the lunge, then move on to ground driving on long reins. Ground drive him first in an enclosed ring or paddock, making sure that your hands are educated. It is the trainer’s educated hands that educate the horse’s mouth correctly, softly. Once you can ground drive him at the walk and trot, in an enclosed space, in circles and serpentines, over poles on the ground etc, ground drive him outdoors, out and about in your barn area, fields etc, again at walk and trot. Some horses, you can canter them on the ground lines too, if they have a good slow canter that you can keep up to. Ground driving is just like riding in many ways, your lines are your leg on the horse’s side, encouraging him to step forward from behind. Your hand shows him how to respond to the bit correctly. If you can not control his actions on the ground lines, he is not ready to ride. It doesn’t matter that he has been ridden before, because that appears to be pretty much a disaster, and he has developed evasions, and negative opinions about how he should respond to his rider. This is why you have to go back to the beginning, and adjust his responses, and his opinions. Because it is training that controls the horse, not bits. Good luck.
As others have said it all starts with ground work. The pony needs to work in a calm, purposeful manner. He needs to learn that a mounted rider doesn’t mean go, go go. Plan to spend a lot of time on the basics. Hopefully your trainer has the skills in his toolbox.
I would like to ask if you are feeding him grain. So many ponies are hot and hard to handle because of too many calories in their diet.
Some where somehow your trainer missed teaching you how to ride from your seat and leg, and how to teach a horse this. This is a valuable lesson, and a necessary one for any one who wants to progress in the horse world.
So I would find someone capable of doing so.
No knock on foxhunters but we all know a few that figure if it does not throw them off, follows the leader, has enough brakes to avoid passing the MFH and will jump? It’s well broke. Might be a little rough at the start but after the first hour and 10k, it’s fine the rest of the day.
Think you got one like that. Pony isn’t trying to do anything evil, it just does not have a clue that life is not galloping after the hounds in a group. It doesn’t know.might be why it was given away instead of sold, too narrow a skill set through no fault of its own. Ponies get a bad rap from the typical rider they get as well. Smaller and generally younger, less experienced. They often just don’t get taught properly and there’s no follow through to keep up any training they do get.
Think some of these responses are based on the way horses are managed and trained here in North America where we spend more time in arenas, way more in vet bills but the advice here is actually pretty good and can transfer to what you have available.
Just assume the Pony is a young colt and start from there. Teach him all over again so he learns what he doesn’t know and/or was never taught. I think everybody on here is agreeing that’s the way to get this turned around. Doesn’t cost much except for some advice and specifics from somebody experienced in this type project. It’s like taking a racer off the track and retraining it, there’s things it knows and things it doesn’t know, concentrate on teaching what it doesn’t know, not forcing it to comply to things it does not understand.
Great post, F8. I agree wholeheartedly.
To the OP, I would like to clarify that when I recommend you go back to square one and rebreak the pony, I am not suggesting you take exactly the same amount of time you might take with an unbroken three year old; you can most likely move more quickly. But I do think for anything described as having no brakes, you need to go back and make sure the pony understands how to give to the bit, and that’s best done from the ground. And I’d progress from there judging by how readily he responds. But I would make sure I had brakes and steering well-installed before I started under saddle work again.
