"Understanding Harness" - balanced draft

[Risk-Averse_Rider]

On R Holyoak’s recommendation, I ordered “Understanding Harness” from Amazon.

Read it last night.

Makes a lot of sense - it is, after all, as we like to say around here, just basic physics.

Thanks again for the recommendation.

But now I’m wondering about something it seems that a lot of driving folks do while training - dragging a tire.

My impression is that most - although not all - of the people here who drive light horses / ponies / minis use a breastcollar of some sort, not a collar & hames.

If you’re dragging something on the ground, you really should have a collar & hames, right? Or does it not matter in the case of a tire, because the tire’s just not that heavy?

So many, many things to learn!

[singletreestable]

As a trainer who does use the technique of pulling the tire with a breast collar, I agree that ideally the line of draft created by dragging something on the ground would be best suited for a collar and hames BUT most of the time dragging a tire is done by a horse or pony who is learning the basics of driving and it is only done for very short periods of time. Also because the horse hasn’t developed any muscle and hasn’t yet driven it would seem to me that buying a full collar and hames would not be the best decision since as he develops it would no longer fit well.

With full collars it is very important that they fit each horse well so it would mean each horse or pony would need their own collar also a potential issue for a trainer since they need their tack to fit multiple horses.

Breast collars are most popular because they are versatile, easily adjustable and generally cost less then a collar and hames. From a turnout prospective if you drive a formal vehicle such as a gig you should also have your horse/pony in a full collar.

[Zwarte]

So how easily is a breast collar harness converted to a full collar harness?

[singletreestable]

Most of the harness is still the same. If you wanted to “covert a breast collar harness to a full collar harness” you would just need to switch out the breast collar and traces for a full collar, hames and traces.

[goodhors]

[QUOTE=krialsharma;6318736]
Well, breast collar and a head collar are two parts of a harness, but only one is being used,. There are various types of harnesses appropriate for various requirements like shows, dragging a carriage or van, taking a cart or wagon, rushing or ploughing.[/QUOTE]

Terminology used is confusing. Head collar is a halter, that term is used mostly by UK folks. I don’t understand what rushing is, as a way to use an animal.

Basicly there are two types of harness, breast collar or full collar. Full, Neck, plain Collar, all are used with some kind of hames that anchor around the collar and have traces attached.

Styles of the Full Collar can vary, from buggy or Gig harness, Draft show or plough harness, Coaching harness, but they ALL have some sort of heavily padded collar around the horse neck, resting on shoulders, that hames are fitted onto. Hames carry the traces used to pull the load behind. These collars are supposed to spread the load onto shoulders for easier pulling. They come in sizes to fit the animal snuggly, not be slopping about in use. Full Collars need to fit correctly, to try to not sore up the animals.

Breast collars, whatever the style, width, trim or shaping, ALL go across the horse chest, held up with a variety of shoulder straps, with traces that go back from horse to vehicle for moving vehicle. As mentioned, they will fit most shapes of chests easily, not as specialized in sizing as the full collars. The fit is what most people prefer, because the breast collar is much more adaptable to many animals, or animals in constantly changing body conditions.

Vehicle used here is meant to cover anything from the tire dragging to a sledge to a wheeled contraption of any kind.

[Chewbacca]

My take on the whole pulling the tire thing is that ideally, if you were pulling a tire with a breast collar harness, you should have the swivel trace buckles, so the traces can angle down, along with a curved breast collar to help keep the line of draft correct.

Of course, as one who did use a tire (or 3) to start my horse, I did it without the swivel attachment, just a regular “straight line of draft”. He didn’t have any problems with doing it, and he spent at first only about 3-5 minutes pulling a single tire. As he understood more and to help build strength, I added a chain of 3 tires over the period of a few weeks, but he still only pulled for about 15 minutes at most.

It wasn’t an issue.

[gothedistance]

@Risk-Averse Rider;6268809

… I’m wondering about something it seems that a lot of driving folks do while training - dragging a tire…My impression is that most - although not all - of the people here who drive light horses / ponies / minis use a breastcollar of some sort, not a collar & hames.

True. Only because the breast collar is cheaper, easier to fit, tends to be forgiving in fitting more equines/different size equines, isn’t necessary to fit a full neck - just across the breast, and is cheaper (did I say that already? Well, it’s true)

If you’re dragging something on the ground, you really should have a collar & hames, right? Or does it not matter in the case of a tire, because the tire’s just not that heavy?
If you are doing…say, the draft horse pulls… then yes - you need a full collar due to the excessive weight of the drag. But when training, you are only pulling something light to teach the horse/pony the feeling of pulling something - ie: learning to push their weight against the weight pulling back on the breast collar.

The reason we choose to use tires as a drag are: they are rubber so they bounce/are indestructible/ noiseless/ weather-resistant/without sharp points/fairly friction-free/cheap/not that heavy/easy to attach/and finally…won’t hurt the driver when said driver trips over tire because they aren’t paying attention to where they are walking behind pony.

For a small pony you’d want to use the smallest size - something that would fit a Honda Civic would do. Again, it is just the concept of teaching the pony to push against the harness. The lessons are short, and geared to success. It isn’t a pulling contest - just a learning tool.

So many, many things to learn!
Always is. Wait until you advance to pairs…

[Risk-Averse_Rider]

[QUOTE=gothedistance;6319911]
won’t hurt the driver when said driver trips over tire because they aren’t paying attention to where they are walking behind pony.[/QUOTE]

Love it!

[CDE_Driver]

This is, in my opinion, the best way to set up a tire for a drag.

http://www.claymaier.com/ClayMaier-tiresetup.pdf

[susanne]

The prevalence of breast collars over full collars for minis/small ponies is not mere expediency or desire to save money. It is very difficult to find a perfectly fit full collar for the VSE/VSP. Adding to the difficulty, due to mini proportions, the collars need to open in order to fit over their eyes.

A great alternative is the deep V breast collars with swivel ring, such as with the Comfy Fit and Camptown harnesses. These allow for varied angles of draft, yet also free the shoulder and avoid pressure on the windpipe.

I know that great mini full collars exist, but finding one that fits properly can be an expensive, frustrating proposition.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

I think this spammer is just trying to sound smart but is sounding incredibly stupid. They did better when they came here talking about drivers licenses…

[Drive_NJ]

Not quite sure what spammer you are talking about, but the poster above you is correct from what I’ve heard. VSEs and Mini’s are hard to fit for full collars due to their conformation and you do need an open top collar to have one that fits and also fits over the head (wide enough for eye area to fit through collar opening).

I’ve also heard VSEs do best in deep v collars (empathy or the like) to allow fit across shoulder without pressing against the base of the windpipe.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

No DriveNJ, the spam post i was referring to has been removed. It was someone trying to sound smart about driving but was advertising traffic cones or something, i didnt click on the link.

[gothedistance]

I reported the spammer the second I saw it.The mods are pretty quick to remove them. Next time I’ll add a post below the spammer about it already being reported.

[susanne]

Thanks for reporting the spammer. I post frequently enough on VSE and pony driving issues that I knew BFZ wasn’t referring to me (or at least I hoped, lol).