Unfiltered Opinion Wanted

[BoyleHeightsKid]

[QUOTE=OverandOnward;8889504]
If you are looking for a certain type of program in that general area, Chris Cox is definitely worth a look. He’s in Mineral Wells, I think about 45 minutes from CA. He’s older (I think) and also from a western reining-type tradition. Cox is a bit more traditional in method overall, but uses the soft, communications and trust-oriented training methods. He doesn’t approach it with the aggressive attitude of CA. He’ll work with anyone on general horsemanship, but trains and schools for western riding.

Cox has done an amazing job of opening the minds of some old coots in the ranching end of western riding to using more effective communications with their horses. He can get through to hard-minded people who didn’t know they wanted to learn something. The horses have benefited greatly.

Cox handles a LOT of horses, but overall his facility and operation are much smaller and more traditional than CA. Much. More of a basic ranching orientation, less show biz, although Cox does a lot of showing.

Cox has done some videos showing that a horse with a good mind and proper basics can basically do anything, even if it is outside its training discipline.

http://www.chris-cox.com/_pages/index[/QUOTE]
This… Chris by far over CA any day.

[luvmyhackney]

He works horses too hard and too long for my liking. Over bends them constantly, nothing subtle about him. Too aggressive.I think he fries their brain, they do the work but loose the spark I like. But his pole for tying does work.

[findeight]

Like most, there’s always a few things you can pick up from him and adapt to your liking…but not my first choice. No way send him a horse. I’ll watch on video to see if I can glean anything useful but that’s it.

One thing for OP, if you are trying to change somebody’s mind about him, save your breath. You can almost never change anybody’s mind by telling them anything about a trainer. That goes triple with “celebrity trainers” known only from a distance and complicated by the “groupie” effect…,gets like a rock or movie star crush.

Watched a fellow boarder who followed one of the first superstar NH types who fooled mostly female horse owners into thinking he was the be all, end all. Seminar$, clinic$, exhibition$ coa$t to coa$t, 10 day camp$ at the home ranch in Solvang . Couldnt tell her anything, she was into him hook line and sinker. Middle aged lady with two near grown kids acting like a tweener…and that’s part of the devotion some show to some of these guys, not all about the horses.

But you waste your breath trying to point anything negative about their idol out to them. Hopefully, they grow out if it.

[Cindy_Galloway]

His absolute disregard for the dignity of the horse really irritates me. At the Road to the Horse he badgered and badgered that poor horse with all of his tricks and gimmicks, finally the horse charged him. Thinking its a good thing to walk around the horse with a loud chain saw to prove to himself he has made the horse calm and obedient is just so rude. Instead of becoming a partner with the horse he dominates. To become really open with opinion… I think the guy is an absolute idiot.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8889288]
What Bluey said. If you do a Google search, you will find that he has consistently performed well competitively through the years. He was one of the first NH trainers that I was exposed to, and I do feel that there is some merit to his methods. But he goes further and faster with a horse than I do. I prefer a quieter, more gentle approach.[/QUOTE]

This. I got free tickets to one of his weekend events one time. I came home with a handful of good tips, some useful concepts, and a handful of things that I either disagreed with or knew that I was unable/unwilling to implement.

[Velvet]

I got dragged to one of his little “events.” He was reaching the unwashed with his message, with good reason. If you have a clue, you could tell he was a charlatan. Yes, there’s some good stuff mixed in, but that’s the stuff he obviously got from other NHers that do it right, not something he actually uses. It was all about marketing and selling to women because of his accent. I only stayed for half a day. I couldn’t stomach it when I saw an OBVIOUSLY lame horse being lunged on a small break, at an unbalanced trot, for a LONG time while he yammered on about nothing. Then he brought out his best horse, and it had very obviously had the tail nerved so it could not move its tail at all. It was SO HORRIBLE. I pretty much bolted out the door so I wouldn’t climb down the steps and throttle the man. He’s disgusting.

[Obsidian_Fire]

[QUOTE=arlosmine;8889133]
I can’t stand him.
He get obedience at all costs…and to me, the horses he has worked with have “dead eyes”.

The term “learned helplessness” is a good fit for the horses I’ve seen after many people who emulate him are done with them.

I particularly don’t like how his methods blend with warmbloods. All the fast turn backs blow their hocks and minds.

Give me Tom Dorrance anyday.[/QUOTE]

Yes. Take a good look at his mare, Mindy, sometime. Her eyes are completely lifeless.

No excuse for that.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=Velvet;8889951]
It was all about marketing and selling to women because of his accent. [/QUOTE]

Which is so funny to me because I can’t stand his accent and would pay money to not listen to it! :lol:

[beau159]

I pretty much agree 100% with Bluey.

I think CA is a very good trainer, and I really like that he explains where/what/why/when during his training. And he doesn’t let the horse get away with anything. He’s not afraid to hurt Dobban’s feelings either.

But with that said, I do think he overdoes it on the “bending” and he is way more aggressive than I like. But I do think positive concepts can be taken from his methods. The normal average person is not going to progress as quickly as he does, nor are they going to be as aggressive. But the exercises can still be useful.

I purchased his trailer loading DVD when I was having trouble with my horse. Again, I was not as aggressive as he was nor drilled my horse for hours on end. I did small sessions at my own pace and it worked very well for us. My horse load (and unloads) like a dream now. It was greatly beneficial for us. I learned a lot from the DVD.

So I like him and his methods BUT take him with a grain of salt. :yes:

[toady123]

I think people will often distrust those who push commercial success. The trademarked ‘program’, gear, events etc. It seems like pushing an agenda versus true learning for the love of the sport which what most of us, as hobbyists, are in this for.

From the limited things I have seen of him online, I think that as others have said he pushes for too much. The overbending, repetition, and unyielding approach strikes me as domineering versus trying to create a partnership. I think that being no nonsense is one thing (and indeed I generally don’t put up with much), but this just goes to far for my liking.

[Foxglove]

I like the structure, sequence, and pace of his DVDs. That’s the extent of my knowledge about him. I think u can find supporters and detractors with any method or trainer. The DVDs worked well for me and improved the 4 horses I applied the lessons to.

[bugsynskeeter]

There are good points to lots of his methods, when used in moderation. And no one calls him Clint…including the people who work for him.

Not a fan of having to share a warm up pen with him or his help. Its no fun being run into.

[SnicklefritzG]

I don’t follow any of the “Natural Horsemanship” type trainers, but I think some of them are better talkers than they are horsemen.

Some are very gregarious and know how to market themselves to people who have more $$$ than common sense.

[kupeski]

I agree with Foxglove. His DVD program is well paced, and well done, offering insight to common errors that may occur, and uses different horses in different stages of training so you can see authentic reactions.

However, as with all BNT, especially of the natural horsemanship type, they seem to lose respectability as they get more fame…

[Velvet]

OMG, people. How can you excuse him lunging an obviously lame horse for 20 minutes? Or nerving a horse’s tail so it won’t swish to show how “quiet” his horse is? That is not temporary. That is permanent. You guys would flay NP (and others like him) because he is ignorant, and support a man who knowingly treats horses poorly, just to line his pockets? Sorry, but his ends should not justify his means.

[LookmaNohands]

I would comment but there is no “Vomit” button.

[atr]

I think if you are trying to create a “tool” or “vehicle” then his methodology would probably work fine for that.

However, I prefer a more partner-like relationship with my horse, and allow him some opinion.

CA would jeer at me for that, no doubt.

[trubandloki]

I agree with Bluey.

That opinion is coming from someone who does not do any of the CA stuff but has a husband that does.

Like any trainer there are not so nice thing and nice things. You simply have to pick the bits and pieces you like and leave those that you do not.

I like George Morris and there are people who think he is evil. Each to their own.

[Velvet]

People only think GM is evil to young women, and judgmental to older ones–and about their weight. :lol:

[Dani]

Thank you for more opinions, they’re greatly appreciated! As for calling him ‘Clint’, that was a typo on my part :lol: my brain gets ahead of my fingers sometimes, I’ll fix that.