I LOVE and do NH with my horse, but not his methods. NO WAY
I only saw one video of him, and that was plenty. He was running a horse back and forth over a little water crossing/ditch. Over and over and over and over and over, kept tapping with a whip.
Not open abuse, just wearing down until the horse gave up. And not in a good way at all. The horses’ eyes were just as someone posted above. DEAD.
Nope.
I dunno, I guess it makes me a stick in the mud but I really don’t care how well-marketed or produced someone’s dvd set is if it’s full of info that will fry my horse’s body and mind.
Kim Kardashian is pretty good at marketing too 
[QUOTE=Velvet;8890275]
OMG, people. How can you excuse him lunging an obviously lame horse for 20 minutes? Or nerving a horse’s tail so it won’t swish to show how “quiet” his horse is? That is not temporary. That is permanent. You guys would flay NP (and others like him) because he is ignorant, and support a man who knowingly treats horses poorly, just to line his pockets? Sorry, but his ends should not justify his means.[/QUOTE]
I do not take it for granted that these things actually happened just because someone said so on the internet. People love to sling judgment on the internet, based on misunderstanding, and/or inaccurate third-party info, etc. & so on. With all due respect, that’s just my position for anyone on the internet that I don’t know personally. It’s not personal at you. 
I don’t like him. He looks like a bully to me, and I find his methods harsh. No thanks.
What I saw in person was back in … 97? Maybe. Right around there. There was a horse expo that he was doing a demo of trailer loading. His subject was a little Arab that was scared to death of the trailer. Not being a booger or a jerk, genuinely scared to the point of shaking.
CA’s ‘training’ method was to run this horse in circles by the ramp, hitting it (not tapping, hitting - hard) on the neck if it slowed down at all. After about 30 minutes the horse was in the trailer, still shaking. It just went in because it was more scared of him than of the trailer at that point. I would be amazed if they were able to get that horse loaded to take it back home.
I didn’t know much about horses and training back then, and it still left a bad taste in my mouth.
I’ve had to retrain several horses who had been trained by people who followed his methods. My impressions of it are this:
- It's antithetical to the basic foundations of English (and, frankly, western) riding. My goal is to encourage calmness, throughness, and engagement of the hind end. How does "lunging" a horse by running him around haphazardly, and disengaging his hindquarters help?
- You may never be able to get your horse to lunge properly again.
- His method doesn't address the physical side of training. Things he considers to be disobedience of the horse (say, not backing straight) are more likely to be issues of strength and sidedness. To the best of my knowledge, these issues are never addressed outside of the view of the horse "disrespecting" the handler.
- The flexions are done incorrectly, and way too much.
- Many of the other exercises can be too hard on the horse, especially young horses. Again, the physical aspects of training are never discussed.
- And, there will always be that one horse who decides to fight instead of giving up. I have seen people put in the hospital by horses who were pushed past their rubicons with his method.
Not to mention that no matter how well spelled out CA’s method is in his materials, you can’t learn the feel and tact you need to train by video alone. If you already understand pressure and release, and how and when to properly apply and time them, you’ll probably be successful at it. But, what CA is selling can get very quickly twisted into a train wreck when applied by people who haven’t learned the principles of training a horse both physically and mentally.
[QUOTE=Foxtail;8891873]
I’ve had to retrain several horses who had been trained by people who followed his methods. My impressions of it are this:
- It's antithetical to the basic foundations of English (and, frankly, western) riding. My goal is to encourage calmness, throughness, and engagement of the hind end. How does "lunging" a horse by running him around haphazardly, and disengaging his hindquarters help?
- You may never be able to get your horse to lunge properly again.
- His method doesn't address the physical side of training. Things he considers to be disobedience of the horse (say, not backing straight) are more likely to be issues of strength and sidedness. To the best of my knowledge, these issues are never addressed outside of the view of the horse "disrespecting" the handler.
- The flexions are done incorrectly, and way too much.
- Many of the other exercises can be too hard on the horse, especially young horses. Again, the physical aspects of training are never discussed.
- And, there will always be that one horse who decides to fight instead of giving up. I have seen people put in the hospital by horses who were pushed past their rubicons with his method.
Not to mention that no matter how well spelled out CA’s method is in his materials, you can’t learn the feel and tact you need to train by video alone. If you already understand pressure and release, and how and when to properly apply and time them, you’ll probably be successful at it. But, what CA is selling can get very quickly twisted into a train wreck when applied by people who haven’t learned the principles of training a horse both physically and mentally.[/QUOTE]
Humans are by evolution and now nature “handsy”.
Give a human a stick and he is going to poke or hit something.
When we were training apprentices, we had to explain that tendency and how to control and use it properly around horses, so we were communicating with them thru it, not demanding and beating them if not responding briskly.
A little of that also applies to hands on reins, a bit on the other end.
We were taught and insisted we follow the principle that a horse’s mouth was sacred, a bit in it the finest way to converse with a horse in a way it understood us, never ever to abuse it.
Pulling harshly on a rein was similar to your teacher shouting as loud as it can in your ear and expect you to not be startled and rattled and your ear hurt.
I don’t think CA ever was taught that principle.
He is the poster child for that theory.
He is not aware of what he does and how to curb that in others, why he and his training tend to go there, over/improperly use our “handsy” tendencies.
Again while I may speak for the minority, I used his DVDs successfully. I have never seen him in person or seen him personally train a horse. I agree that no DVD can teach “feel”, but as one who learns by watching, I did learn from his DVDs. OverandOward spoke volumes when pointing out that one can say anything about anyone on the web, and that doesn’t make it true.
As to the “dead look” in the eyes of horses trained using his method, this “accusation” has been leveled at ME by members of the hunt club. I ride a QH who came from a ranch in ND. He was a fireball when I got him at age 6, with a history of bucking, bolting, and rearing. Quietly, slowly, and with the encouragement of a neighbor who was a John Lyons disciple but understood CA’s methods --I began going through the DVD series. My horse began to relax and respond. I continued using the DVD series on 4 more horses, but my QH hunter was my main focus.
On the hunt field more than one rider has said, “Your horse looks (take your pick) asleep, boring, lazy, dull, and yes, dead.” But, my horse is also the one asked to take the field when the FM is unable to do so or continue (he’s a DR so sometimes has to leave). My horse is the one asked to ride beside the nervous horses, the child’s horse, the timid horse; he’s asked to lead over fences (even the master has asked me for a lead). When the OTTBs are breathing fire and dancing at rest points, my horse is standing quietly (and yes, he probably is asleep). He NEVER spooks at turkeys, deer, or hounds. He’s even carried an injured hound back to club. When a member lost her horse on the field, there was only ONE HORSE who would take a double rider --my horse. He opens gates, moves sideways off the trail to let the master pass, and does a (really cool) roll back when we have to reverse field. In my opinion --he is the BEST TRAINED horse on the field. There are flashier, hotter, more exciting horses to ride, but my horse is SOLID.
I don’t think any trainer is particularly better than another. If there had been a trainer close by, I probably would have taken my horse there. But since I didn’t have one, I followed the DVDs using my own judgment, to the best of my ability. I got the result I wanted. A well trained horse --dead eyes? Look again. He’s just thinking about the next run after Mr. Fox and saving his energy.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/foxgloveweeks/P1010001.jpg
[QUOTE=Foxglove;8891933]
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/foxgloveweeks/P1010001.jpg[/QUOTE]
He is adorable!
Opinions on here are going to be mainly against him and I dare say because this is mainly an English forum. I think parts of his “method” have merits. The ground work he does is the same that a lot of western trainers I’ve seen do. CA just packages it as a step by step method that you have to follow to get the end results. Say what you will but he’s made a ton of money marketing this method. I do think he is way overpriced.
I watched a lot of his videos online, went to a clinic of one of his certified trainers, and even went to one of his “walkabout tours” (I got free tickets). So even though I ride English and have more ties to the jumper world I found parts of his method useful. You don’t have to be rough and he even says the ultimate goal is a horse that is soft and respectful. A lot of people on here will criticize him but then on another thread might talk about a horse needing a “come to Jesus meeting”! So which is it? Never get tough and demand respect? Horses are big and potentially dangerous animals and need to be respectful. I was always taught you can learn from everyone and take what works and leave out what doesn’t.
I have done “his” groundwork exercises and it was very helpful with my horses issues however I don’t follow him to a T and now my horse is past those previous issues, I don’t have the need to do them anymore but I would use the “method” again on another horse.
[QUOTE=Bluey;8891918]
Humans are by evolution and now nature “handsy”.
Give a human a stick and he is going to poke or hit something.
When we were training apprentices, we had to explain that tendency and how to control and use it properly around horses, so we were communicating with them thru it, not demanding and beating them if not responding briskly.
A little of that also applies to hands on reins, a bit on the other end.
We were taught and insisted we follow the principle that a horse’s mouth was sacred, a bit in it the finest way to converse with a horse in a way it understood us, never ever to abuse it.
Pulling harshly on a rein was similar to your teacher shouting as loud as it can in your ear and expect you to not be startled and rattled and your ear hurt.
I don’t think CA ever was taught that principle.
He is the poster child for that theory.
He is not aware of what he does and how to curb that in others, why he and his training tend to go there, over/improperly use our “handsy” tendencies.[/QUOTE]
One of the better explanations of basics, actually.
G.
I suppose you can gain something from watching any trainer, even if it is just what not to do- although I don’t see much in CA’s stuff that can’t be gleaned from some other NH trainer. I have never seen him work a horse in person but I’ve seen enough video to realize he’s more of a bully than a trainer. And then there’s that lovely video where he states his opinion of women riders (gag).
He is an awful trainer that needs to never touch another horse ever again. Every video I watch of him working a horse shows abuse in some form or another. Disgusting. I don’t know how people keep taking their business to him.
From what little I know about him, I’m not impressed to say the least. I’m not too fond of most of the TV trainers, as they all seem to be more focused on marketing than than the actual training and helping people and horses. What I really don’t like about Clinton Anderson is that he seems to be very arrogant and unprofessional, and he seems to be very impatient and rough with horses from what little I’ve seen. I’ve never given his training methods the time of day, so I can’t really form an opinion on them.
I remember reading about this statement that was originally on his Web site some time ago that many of my horse friends were flipping their lids over. This is about the only thing I have to form a fair opinion off of since I’ve only seen a few snippets of him riding before and have never really followed him, but judging by this, I don’t think he’s someone I would be very fond of. Yes, I understand that any horse could’ve mysteriously died on anyone’s property and that it is just a freak thing that happens sometimes, but to say that people shouldn’t be concerned and asking questions when he deals with the public and this is an incident that happened with a customer of his is simply just not a very smart thing to say. Something that I learned a long time ago about life is that people will wonder and ask questions about things, whether it’s their business or not. If he hasn’t figured this out yet, he’s in for a lot of frustration. Also, I feel that for people who may have been looking into sending their horse to his ranch, that they have every right to be concerned and ask questions. The entire statement is extremely unprofessional and I can’t believe his social media representatives (assuming he has these representatives) allowed this to be published. Coming from an up-and-coming business owner in a family full of business owners, this is simply unacceptable and not at all how you handle things in a business. The thing he put about the owner declining his horse because it was too small (and I believe that your average 5’9" person is too big for your average 14.1 hand horse as well, and yes, height does matter) was also just a jab at the owner of the horse who passed away as well, and also extremely unprofessional. Let me get this straight… he wants everyone to mind their own business about this, yet he’s bringing a separate personal issue between the woman and him to public attention?
I also saw a snippet of a video somewhere of him smacking a blind horse with his lunge whip just because it didn’t respond to him right away, although you could tell the horse was simply confused. If he 1) can’t tell the difference between a horse who isn’t listening and a confused one, and 2) thinks that repeatedly smacking the horse with a lunge whip is the answer to an issue, he’s in the wrong business and has no business being around animals at all. It almost seems like he tries to use fear and intimidation on horses because he is, in fact, fearful and intimidated by them. That’s something I’ve noticed about many people who are scared of their horses; they try to use fear tactics and intimidation on them. I usually don’t judge off of just small little snippets, but I didn’t like that at all considering I had a visually impaired pony for most of my life and if ANYONE would have treated him that way, I would’ve come unglued. If that video isn’t just one of his “bad” moments and is actually indicative of how he is as a trainer, I wouldn’t consider him any kind of trainer at all.
Personally I think the biggest issue is that he also pushes"work your horse daily and he will be broke with his basics in 6 weeks!!"
His training horses for the public he pushes theough in 6 weeks time. 6 weeks of a horse not getting a day off. That to me is what fries their brain and breaks them down the fastest. You weeks is just too fast… now maybe 12 or 16 weeks would probably work way better. But not 6.
Now this is only rumor but I heard from a friend who’s cousin went to the academy that CA has that 2 horses were put down and one lamed to only being pasture sound the rest of its life. These were his students that were given “training horses” that people sent in. One had to be put down to injury near the beginning of the 6 week program, the other at the end. Again, though this was word of mouth, I have no idea any of the accuracy. But friend did say her cousin said she was even shocked at how hard they were told to push the horses.
I really do think that the method he has could be used in a way that works, just needs to be done slower and with consideration to each horse as an individual. Pick what works and trash what does not.
[QUOTE=Bluey;8891918]
Humans are by evolution and now nature “handsy”.
Give a human a stick and he is going to poke or hit something.
When we were training apprentices, we had to explain that tendency and how to control and use it properly around horses, so we were communicating with them thru it, not demanding and beating them if not responding briskly.
A little of that also applies to hands on reins, a bit on the other end.
We were taught and insisted we follow the principle that a horse’s mouth was sacred, a bit in it the finest way to converse with a horse in a way it understood us, never ever to abuse it.
Pulling harshly on a rein was similar to your teacher shouting as loud as it can in your ear and expect you to not be startled and rattled and your ear hurt.
I don’t think CA ever was taught that principle.
He is the poster child for that theory.
He is not aware of what he does and how to curb that in others, why he and his training tend to go there, over/improperly use our “handsy” tendencies.[/QUOTE]
First intro to NH I had was John Lyons & Monty Roberts. Back then, following that, you took the halter off the horse and all you had to ‘cue’ them with was a rope to shake, and your body language.
I have even heard Chris Cox poke fun at CA for ‘needing a stick to get his point across’.
OTOH, I have been around some of the idiots (yes, idiots) who need somebody like CA to spell it out for them in unvarnished term.
When all people bring you are spoiled brats, you’re bound to get sick and tired of it real quick.
Not defending CA, I’m not a fan, just sayin…
I wholeheartedly agree with some other posters here who’ve said if you don’t understand pressure and release and the TIMING of it… and knowing when to quit, is huge.
Nowadays, people want it, and want it NOW.
Back when I worked on an Arab farm, they wanted 30-day wonders, yesterday. I could not do it. I did not, still don’t, have the mentality for that.
A friend of mine laments that her horse isn’t further along, because she just doesn’t have hours each day to work with her. I told her, “you’ve gotten further in 5-10 mins every day than most people do in 6 mos of hour long sessions.”
A good friend of mine who deal in remedial training says to me all the time: One step, stop. One step, stop.
There was also a guy at her barn who had a big wreck using the CA method of “you should be cantering your horse by the second ride”. He took the horse out into the big arena and it took off with him. It wasn’t ready and neither was he. All he could say was “well CA says I should be cantering by the second ride!”.
:no:
Clinton Anderson comes from a tough, hard-working background with horses, and expects hard-working horses. Going to him, or watching his programs, with any other expectation is sure not to go well.
Trainers are often reflections of their roots and it is important to understand that to help determine if their approach is right for any particular rider/owner/handler. All trainers are not right for all horse people.
[QUOTE=Foxtail;8891873]
I’ve had to retrain several horses who had been trained by people who followed his methods. My impressions of it are this:
- It's antithetical to the basic foundations of English (and, frankly, western) riding. My goal is to encourage calmness, throughness, and engagement of the hind end. How does "lunging" a horse by running him around haphazardly, and disengaging his hindquarters help?
- You may never be able to get your horse to lunge properly again.
- His method doesn't address the physical side of training. Things he considers to be disobedience of the horse (say, not backing straight) are more likely to be issues of strength and sidedness. To the best of my knowledge, these issues are never addressed outside of the view of the horse "disrespecting" the handler.
- The flexions are done incorrectly, and way too much.
- Many of the other exercises can be too hard on the horse, especially young horses. Again, the physical aspects of training are never discussed.
- And, there will always be that one horse who decides to fight instead of giving up. I have seen people put in the hospital by horses who were pushed past their rubicons with his method.
Not to mention that no matter how well spelled out CA’s method is in his materials, you can’t learn the feel and tact you need to train by video alone. If you already understand pressure and release, and how and when to properly apply and time them, you’ll probably be successful at it. But, what CA is selling can get very quickly twisted into a train wreck when applied by people who haven’t learned the principles of training a horse both physically and mentally.[/QUOTE]
Well said.
I think CA has some useful ideas and concepts. I can take away some valuable stuff from him. But yeah, I would apply it very, very differently than he does, and some I would leave on the table.
And that’s my reaction to a great many trainers in all avenues of riding, not just the “star” DVD trainers.
[QUOTE=HunterEq95;8892264]…
I remember reading about this statement that was originally on his Web site some time ago that many of my horse friends were flipping their lids over. This is about the only thing I have to form a fair opinion off of since I’ve only seen a few snippets of him riding before and have never really followed him, but judging by this, I don’t think he’s someone I would be very fond of. Yes, I understand that any horse could’ve mysteriously died on anyone’s property and that it is just a freak thing that happens sometimes, but to say that people shouldn’t be concerned and asking questions when he deals with the public and this is an incident that happened with a customer of his is simply just not a very smart thing to say. Something that I learned a long time ago about life is that people will wonder and ask questions about things, whether it’s their business or not. If he hasn’t figured this out yet, he’s in for a lot of frustration. …[/QUOTE]
I know nothing about the incident, but the statement is 100% Clinton. There are some people who will be outraged by it, others who will agree with it. Someone’s personal reaction to that statement will very probably be their reaction to him.
[QUOTE=RoyalRain42;8892355]…
Now this is only rumor but I heard from a friend who’s cousin went to the academy that CA has that 2 horses were put down and one lamed to only being pasture sound the rest of its life. These were his students that were given “training horses” that people sent in. One had to be put down to injury near the beginning of the 6 week program, the other at the end. Again, though this was word of mouth, I have no idea any of the accuracy. But friend did say her cousin said she was even shocked at how hard they were told to push the horses.
…[/QUOTE]
Acknowledging this is a rumor, thank you for being clear about that … nonetheless this would be exactly my concern.
On the one hand, he puts 100’s of horses through his program every year. Some are going to die or break down for all kinds of reasons unrelated to his program.
But, knowing horse owners these days, I think a lot of horses will show up not nearly fit enough for his regimen. Nowhere near fit enough. I can’t really tell if CA acknowledges this - he may truly not get it. His background is from horses that were fit, and were of the type to quickly gain condition in full training. But let’s face it, that’s not how many people keep their horses today.
Horses with a lot of TB in them get fit quickly, faster than humans. But many horses today are kept in small turnout as well as stall confinement and start from a much lower level of condition than perhaps once was true. That’s my concern with sending a horse to his program.
Yep, as with ANY trainer.
[QUOTE=Obsidian Fire;8892492]… A good friend of mine who deal in remedial training says to me all the time: One step, stop. One step, stop.
…[/QUOTE]
Love your friend’s description! 
And then you have the friends and trainers pressuring you … why aren’t you ___ ? when will you ___ ? While they prepare to load up their horses for the next show, ready or not. And then are bummed at the meltdown, which is the horse’s fault for not realizing his responsibilities and his job, all due from him as compensation for his cush lifestyle. (Or her’s.)
So some people will figure, why not turn to whatever those big name DVD trainers are selling and see if it will move things along … ? I think that’s at least part of what keeps the trainer thing going.
OverandOnward, I really like what you wrote. So much of horse training is, well, opinion. Had a fellow complain bitterly about a well-known trainer we both knew. Fellow had taken his horse for “30 days training.” Went to see the horse during that time. Asked the trainer how horse was doing. Trainer said, “I didn’t ride him yesterday, but he’s been doing well and making progress toward the goals we discussed.” At that point the Fellow got ugly and accused the trainer of taking his money and not doing the work. The fellow said to me, “If I pay for 30 days training, I expect my horse to be rode every days of those 30 days.”
So when CA says that one should work a horse “every day for six weeks” to have a horse “trained,” there is room for interpretation. One thing I did with my fellow, was WORK HIM EVERY DAY FOR SIX WEEKS. But, Lordy, I wasn’t sitting on his back every day for HOURS. We alternated between ground work and work in the saddle. But every day, for an hour, I moved his feet. It was amazing the change in, well, both of us. Each day we had a plan (laid out for us on the DVDs -and I was using two at the same time --one ground work and one starting under saddle, even though my boy was six and saddle broken, I thought we’d go back to the basics and fill in holes. Sometimes I’d hook the trailer and work on loading, sometimes I’d get out traps and ground poles and work on those in hand. And every other day I did 30 min of riding --which is about how long a “lesson” on the DVDs lasts. The other 30 min (15 before, 15 after) we reviewed what we’d done (again, suggested on the DVDs).
Before, I’d done maybe 3-4 days a week and then just “rode” with no plan the other 3-4 days, and might give horse two-3 days off now and then. But by acting like a professional, and doing something with the horse each day for 6 weeks, he changed from a balky, rearing, bucking brat, into a solid ride.
Each spring (I no longer ride in March -too cold and wet), we have to do a week of refreshing or he’s a brat again, but I know what to do now, and I know what to expect. I never hit my boy with my stick --I do tap him. But mostly I just have to act like I’m going to and he responds. I ride in a snaffle, w/o spurs or crop.
Anyway, enough about me. I liked what you wrote.
He’s a misogynistic bully, and I’m pretty sure he hates horses.
